Player Discussion Nils Lundkvist

[Raspewtin]

Nemeth is a guy who served as a spot defender I believe the last two years for Detroit and Colorado.

expecting him to come to NY and be a full time players was a bit of a stretch

we really needed an NHL caliber starter to play this role for a year to help work with Nils not a fringe guy.

nemeth has been a top 4 D his entire career.

Disagree with this completely.

A big part of the Nemeth-Nils pairing issue is that neither of them are moving the puck well at all so even if one of them ends up taking the puck away from the other team, it's quickly back on their opponents' stick and then back in their end. Nils has been the weaker link here where almost nothing in clean and even simple break outs are resulting in icings (he did the latter 4 times against Nashville.)

With Jones, that would happen less. Like maybe a difference where they're getting caved in 40-45% of the time which is still bad, but its MUCH better than the near 30% that the Nemeth-Nils pair has been so far. It's the same idea as we had pairing DeAngelo with Staal 2 seasons ago. TDA took Staal from being an abomination to just being bad. We don't need great from a 3rd pair, we do need way better than its been.

I think you're overestimating Jones' ability against full NHL rosters (right now) but I'd love to be wrong!

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Disagree with this completely.

A big part of the Nemeth-Nils pairing issue is that neither of them are moving the puck well at all so even if one of them ends up taking the puck away from the other team, it's quickly back on their opponents' stick and then back in their end. Nils has been the weaker link here where almost nothing in clean and even simple break outs are resulting in icings (he did the latter 4 times against Nashville.)

With Jones, that would happen less. Like maybe a difference where they're getting caved in 40-45% of the time which is still bad, but its MUCH better than the near 30% that the Nemeth-Nils pair has been so far. It's the same idea as we had pairing DeAngelo with Staal 2 seasons ago. TDA took Staal from being an abomination to just being bad. We don't need great from a 3rd pair, we do need way better than its been.

I agree. Jones was making it look easy with Fox like plays all over the ice. Subtle things, but getting the puck out and on the tape of the forwards. Right now thats what this team needs, they need to have more possession

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

nemeth has been a top 4 D his entire career.


I think you're overestimating Jones' ability against full NHL rosters (right now) but I'd love to be wrong!

Jones has warts too and I'm sure they'd show over a full season but the issues he'd have are also some of the ones that Nils is having right now.

He did get some games against full NHL rosters last year too. It wasn't a ton of them, but he looked a hell of a lot better than Nils has.

 

[huerter]

I don't care that he panics with the puck. I don't care that his decision making is suspect. All I want to know is this from anyone who has been in the arena - is he barking out instructions to his teammates while on the bench?

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

I don't care that he panics with the puck. I don't care that his decision making is suspect. All I want to know is this from anyone who has been in the arena - is he barking out instructions to his teammates while on the bench?

Seems pretty quiet, not sure what you are getting at

 

[Miamipuck]

I think he's improving and adjusting to the league. Moving Jones up, he would play on the wrong side. I would rather Nils stay on the right and when the time comes get Jones up to play his natural side. I am not a proponent of playing guys out of position on defense.

The NHL is not a developmental league but I am fairly certain that a player should get a few more than spot time in 6 games to get accustomed to the league. Give it a little time he doesn't look lost he just has to get acclimated to the pace and structure which is way different than a European league.

 

[Gr8CornHolio]

nemeth has been a top 4 D his entire career.


I think you're overestimating Jones' ability against full NHL rosters (right now) but I'd love to be wrong!

was he hurt last year and the year before when he played 31 games and 13 games?

 

[SA16]

was he hurt last year and the year before when he played 31 games and 13 games?

He played 52 games last year.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Seems pretty quiet, not sure what you are getting at

People are saying Nils has authoritarian tendencies and that he's sort of grabbed the room by the balls, he's calling all the shots here; not Gallant. He starts yelling and telling everyone what to do, he even rules over Gallant with an iron fist and makes the line combinations himself. He's the one who decided to have all these alternate captains because he wants them to hold off for a year and then he will proclaim himself captain. They've tried scratching him but he just shows up anyway and forces them to play him.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I think he's improving and adjusting to the league. Moving Jones up, he would play on the wrong side. I would rather Nils stay on the right and when the time comes get Jones up to play his natural side. I am not a proponent of playing guys out of position on defense.

The NHL is not a developmental league but I am fairly certain that a player should get a few more than spot time in 6 games to get accustomed to the league. Give it a little time he doesn't look lost he just has to get acclimated to the pace and structure which is way different than a European league.

This is how I feel about both Lundkvist and Jones. I think they will be fine long-term but playing them out of position seems unnecessary. As of now, only 3 defensemen have played up to par IMO: Fox, Lindgren, Trouba. If we call up Jones, it should be to send down Miller (Who has his own issues to work on). If you want to demote Lundkvist, give Schneider a shot.

 

[TominNC]

Way too early to be switching out Dmen.

 

[nyr2k2]

This is how I feel about both Lundkvist and Jones. I think they will be fine long-term but playing them out of position seems unnecessary. As of now, only 3 defensemen have played up to par IMO: Fox, Lindgren, Trouba. If we call up Jones, it should be to send down Miller (Who has his own issues to work on). If you want to demote Lundkvist, give Schneider a shot.

Miller passes the eye test and his advanced stats are good. Some are great. IDK what your thing is with him. He clearly belongs in the NHL.

I understand the desire to give Schneider a shot. He has looked pretty solid on Hartford. Nice to have a right on the right. That said, Jones can play the right just fine and the things he excels at are the things we need and many of the things we were hoping Nils would bring.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Lol on what planet is Miller the one to send down?

He's grossly outplayed Nils in the regular season and has mostly been great.

Switch Nemeth to the right and Play Jones in his natural spot. It won't be worse than what we're currently throwing out there.

 

[nyr2k2]

Lol on what planet is Miller the one to send down?

He's grossly outplayed Nils in the regular season and has mostly been great.

Switch Nemeth to the right and Play Jones in his natural spot. It won't be worse than what we're currently throwing out there.

"Planet Deflecting"

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

was he hurt last year and the year before when he played 31 games and 13 games?

He played 52 games last year and 64 games the year before. So he played full seasons both years. He's been an everyday player since Colorado claimed him off waivers from Dallas in 2017 as a 24 year old - spending significant time as a top 4 guy on Colorado and then Detroit.

Patrik Nemeth Stats | Hockey-Reference.com

You read his stat line wrong, he got traded to Colorado at the dealine and the 13 gp listed there is his 13 games played with Colorado post deadline - he played 39 games will Detroit pre-trade.

This is how I feel about both Lundkvist and Jones. I think they will be fine long-term but playing them out of position seems unnecessary. As of now, only 3 defensemen have played up to par IMO: Fox, Lindgren, Trouba. If we call up Jones, it should be to send down Miller (Who has his own issues to work on). If you want to demote Lundkvist, give Schneider a shot.

Miller has looked mostly very good after his shaky preseason. Not sure in what dimension him being sent down would be a possibility when he's arguably been our best LD so far with Lindgren looking a bit out of sorts.

Personally I think people are being too hard on Nils. He hasn't wowed at all and he has some shortcomings so far, but the only way for him to get acclimated is to keep playing him. I feel like he's looked better the past few games, minimizing mistakes and playing simple. He def needs to improve all around and especially in his puck moving and breakouts but that will come with time. Gallant is doing the right thing by riding him and giving him a chance to acclimate himself.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

He played 52 games last year and 64 games the year before. So he played full seasons both years. He's been an everyday player since Colorado claimed him off waivers from Dallas in 2017 as a 24 year old - spending significant time as a top 4 guy on Colorado and then Detroit.

Patrik Nemeth Stats | Hockey-Reference.com

You read his stat line wrong, he got traded to Colorado at the dealine and the 13 gp listed there is his 13 games played with Colorado post deadline - he played 39 games will Detroit pre-trade.



Miller has looked mostly very good after his shaky preseason. Not sure in what dimension him being sent down would be a possibility when he's arguably been our best LD so far with Lindgren looking a bit out of sorts.

Personally I think people are being too hard on Nils. He hasn't wowed at all and he has some shortcomings so far, but the only way for him to get acclimated is to keep playing him. I feel like he's looked better the past few games, minimizing mistakes and playing simple. He def needs to improve all around and especially in his puck moving and breakouts but that will come with time. Gallant is doing the right thing by riding him and giving him a chance to acclimate himself.

Ottawa game was his best game so far.

The two games sandwiched around it were not good though. He was bad vs Calgary and even worse vs Nashville.

I'm genuinely worried about his puck moving because that isn't something that typically gets better as you get acclimated. Guys who are quintessential PMD's may have trouble in other parts of their games when making the jump (or even after, DeAngelo comes to mind) but getting out of their zone cleanly is usually there from the beginning.

 

[Doctyl]

Seems pretty quiet, not sure what you are getting at

He isn’t sure what he’s getting at either.

 

[Harbour Dog]

Nils wasn't supposed to be a strong offensive defenseman. Then he put together a couple very good offensive seasons in the SHL, and now we're trying to showhorn him in as a puck-moving guy who can run a PP.

It may be in all parties best interests for him to forget about trying to put up numbers, and just focus on one side of the ice at first. That was what got him drafted. Win a puck battle, skate it out of trouble, make a good first pass.

If the offensive acumen comes later, great, but it sure as hell isn't there right now, and I think that trying to live up to his success over these last couple years is messing with him.

 

[Crease]

This is how I feel about both Lundkvist and Jones. I think they will be fine long-term but playing them out of position seems unnecessary. As of now, only 3 defensemen have played up to par IMO: Fox, Lindgren, Trouba. If we call up Jones, it should be to send down Miller (Who has his own issues to work on). If you want to demote Lundkvist, give Schneider a shot.

I agree with you about playing guys on their correct side.

I disagree that Miller hasn’t “played up to par.” He’s not a finished product, but he’s making more good plays than bad and has done enough to stay up with the big club. He’s certainly a more reliable LHD option than Nemeth, Hajek, Tinordi, or Jones right now.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

"Planet Deflecting"

It's all over Twitter too.

Dunno why the Nils fan club has chosen to target Miller.

 

[MrAlmost]

Miller might as well be Chris Pronger compared to Lundqvist right now. I think the Rangers should look to move this kid with Krav for a solid return. I do not think he is a better option than Hajek, Tinordi or Jones. Even with those guys being LHD.

Lundqvist will probably be a good d man in the league for a while, but the Rangers have people ahead of and behind him that are either just as good, better, or play a style that we need more of.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Nils wasn't supposed to be a strong offensive defenseman. Then he put together a couple very good offensive seasons in the SHL, and now we're trying to showhorn him in as a puck-moving guy who can run a PP.

It may be in all parties best interests for him to forget about trying to put up numbers, and just focus on one side of the ice at first. That was what got him drafted. Win a puck battle, skate it out of trouble, make a good first pass.

If the offensive acumen comes later, great, but it sure as hell isn't there right now, and I think that trying to live up to his success over these last couple years is messing with him.

Yeah if he's going to be able to utilize his best skills, this will be necessary.

But thats where the worry really seeps in with Nils. He won't win more battles than he loses, he doesn't really have the feet to skate his way out of trouble and his puck moving is horrendous.

His best chance at success both in the near and distant future IMO is to get really good at not getting tied up in puck battles and making quick plays with the puck in short areas and allowing someone else to exit the zone because I really don't think he'll ever be able to do it himself with consistency. But thats tough to do at this level, especially when it isn't already a part of your game.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Nils wasn't supposed to be a strong offensive defenseman. Then he put together a couple very good offensive seasons in the SHL, and now we're trying to showhorn him in as a puck-moving guy who can run a PP.

It may be in all parties best interests for him to forget about trying to put up numbers, and just focus on one side of the ice at first. That was what got him drafted. Win a puck battle, skate it out of trouble, make a good first pass.

If the offensive acumen comes later, great, but it sure as hell isn't there right now, and I think that trying to live up to his success over these last couple years is messing with him.

But when he started putting up great offensive numbers is when he started getting hyped up as one of the best D prospects in the league, he wasn't as highly regarded before he broke out like that. He was actually considered a reach at the time of the draft.

I think we need to stop focus on turning all these prospects into defense first players, same thing is going on with Lafreniere & Kakko. Our team isn't allowing many goals, we're pretty darn solid defensively and in net. What we're lacking is offense that Laf & Kakko were supposed to bring, and what Lundkvist was supposed to bring from the back end.

 

[Mac n Gs]

It's all over Twitter too.

Dunno why the Nils fan club has chosen to target Miller.

Because it’s a pathetic attempt to make themselves feel better despite Miller not even being in competition with Nils. This has gone on since the two were drafted and Miller was considered a more touted prospect by some.

They’re both very good young defensemen. Nils had a more refined game that needs time to adapt to the pace of the NHL game on the smaller rink. Miller needs to learn how to utilize his size and skating combination to position himself better to close gaps in the NZ. My one gripe with Key is that he loves drifting wide and then cutting back hard to take away space. It catches some skaters by surprise, but they’ll catch onto it quick; some already have.

 

[Harbour Dog]

Yeah if he's going to be able to utilize his best skills, this will be necessary.

But thats where the worry really seeps in with Nils. He won't win more battles than he loses, he doesn't really have the feet to skate his way out of trouble and his puck moving is horrendous.

His best chance at success both in the near and distant future IMO is to get really good at not getting tied up in puck battles and making quick plays with the puck in short areas and allowing someone else to exit the zone because I really don't think he'll ever be able to do it himself with consistency. But thats tough to do at this level, especially when it isn't already a part of your game.

Yeah, he hasn't shown (in North America) that he has any of the skills to do that yet. Could be confidence and jitters, could be the need to adjust to bigger and faster opponents, could be that he isn't physically up to par yet, or it could be that he just is never going to be able to translate.

If there were ever a prospect in need of some AHL time, this is he.