Prospect Info: Nils Lundkvist: Part II

[ElLeetch]

. A good example for the Rangers is someone like Anton Strålman, Anthony DeAngelo and Derick Brassard.

.

Interesting to consider, or it might just be a mental block on my part, but there are *many* more examples of players that came to NY and rebounded/elevated their career paths than we've had players that we took on and left us.

Strålman, ADA, Brassgod, Zibby, Strome, Grabner, etc... vs who? JT Miller? Ryan Graves? Pionk?

We've definitely been on the good end of finding undervalued talent, and good about not letting much escape us. We've won more than we have lost.

 

[Levitate]

Miller was always good here too we just didn't have superstars to play him with

 

[Raspewtin]

I feel like "top pair" defenseman only get called such when they reach a point that people believe they are actually #1 defensemen. A #2 isn't a "top pair" guy because he needs a #1 to play with him, etc etc.

But what people seem to think of as #1's are pretty rare (basically just the superstars) while there are a whole lot of really great defensemen who can play lots of minutes in all situations but whom people find issues with.

Like...if Fox (or Lundkvist) can play 22 minutes per night in all situations, put up points, and defend well and grade out well on the advanced analytics charts, does it matter that they might not be Chris Pronger in his prime?

Bolded absolutely nails it.

 

[romba]

I've also always felt there wasn't a tremendous long-term gap between Lundkvist and Boqvist, so much as it was a matter of Boqvist being further along heading into their draft years. So for me, none of this is too terribly surprising.

I always wondered how scouts are able to differentiate between guys farther along in their development early on (Tavares for example) versus a guy who eventually reach the same point but take longer to get there (Zbad). Not easily I imagine.

 

[Edge]

I always wondered how scouts are able to differentiate between guys farther along in their development early on (Tavares for example) versus a guy who eventually reach the same point but take longer to get there (Zbad). Not easily I imagine.

Not easily, and not always accurately either.

A lot of times you look for patterns, you reference what you've seen in the past, and sometimes you just get lucky.

No matter how many games you've seen, no matter if you're the best scout in the business, or a middle of the road pro, at the end of the day you're essentially taking an educated guess.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

He didn't have an assist today.

 

[kovazub94]

McDonagh.

Take that Yzerman!

Could wound up the best piece in return from McD so that we'd "forget" that bottom NHLers Howden and Hajek were also a part of it.

 

[kovazub94]

For me a top pairing you can put out against the other teams top line, shut them down, take the puck away, transition into their zone, and hold the puck in while generating scoring chances. The essentially nullify the other teams best assets and are our teams best assets on the flip.

IMHO the difference between #1 and #2 top liners is specifically this piece of performance. All other components must be present in both.

 

[kovazub94]

I don't know if he's better than Fox per se, but I think he's arguably ahead of where Fox was around this time.

I think Fox is more naturally aggressive, and plays with more a cockiness than Lundkvist. But I think Lundkvist probably has more natural "skills" if that makes sense.

I'd add a "counterpoint" that Fox had an insanely high development curve from this time until now and while possible, it's difficult to project a similarly high curve from another player.

 

[Edge]

I'd add a "counterpoint" that Fox had an insanely high development curve from this time until now and while possible, it's difficult to project a similarly high curve from another player.

I 100 percent agree with this.

I think even Fox's biggest supporters would probably note that his trajectory over the last 24 months has been nothing short of phenomenal. I can also tell you that he's exceeded just about every internal expectation for him coming into the season.

I'd say that what Lundkvist and Fox are doing/did in their D+1 through D+3 seasons is almost everything you could possibly hope for.

 

[kovazub94]

I 100 percent agree with this.

I think even Fox's biggest supporters would probably note that his trajectory over the last 24 months has been nothing short of phenomenal. I can also tell you that he's exceeded just about every internal expectation for him coming into the season.

I'd say that what Lundkvist and Fox are doing/did in their D+1 through D+3 seasons is almost everything you could possibly hope for.

Remove almost (since they weren't top-10 picks).

 

[The New Russian Five]

I 100 percent agree with this.

I think even Fox's biggest supporters would probably note that his trajectory over the last 24 months has been nothing short of phenomenal. I can also tell you that he's exceeded just about every internal expectation for him coming into the season.

I'd say that what Lundkvist and Fox are doing/did in their D+1 through D+3 seasons is almost everything you could possibly hope for.

How do you see the RD shaking out when the dust settles? I feel like from your posts that you believe that eventually ADA is the odd man out. Such a shame considering he's probably the most dynamic offensively of the group and I think there is still even room for him to grow further.

I personally would like to see Trouba traded. He's a decent defender that plays with some edge to his game and he is bigger than the other 3, but honestly he has so many defensive lapses, probably the slowest of the RD group and seems to more often than not make poor decisions on zone exit and entry passes. For 8 million a year it is quite disappointing to see.

 

[Edge]

How do you see the RD shaking out when the dust settles? I feel like from your posts that you believe that eventually ADA is the odd man out. Such a shame considering he's probably the most dynamic offensively of the group and I think there is still even room for him to grow further.

I personally would like to see Trouba traded. He's a decent defender that plays with some edge to his game and he is bigger than the other 3, but honestly he has so many defensive lapses, probably the slowest of the RD group and seems to more often than not make poor decisions on zone exit and entry passes. For 8 million a year it is quite disappointing to see.

If I had to guess, I think it's either ADA or Lundkvist.

Lundkvist is attractive because he's a young, cheap talent with growth potential. ADA is doing some great things at the NHL already, but will come with a higher salary.

I don't think they go with ADA, Fox and Lundkvist for diversity and balance reasons, so I think Trouba is more likely to stay.

 

[Jagge11]

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I wouldn't want to but if we were to trade Lundkvist today who could we get back?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I wouldn't want to but if we were to trade Lundkvist today who could we get back?

Sandin.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I wouldn't want to but if we were to trade Lundkvist today who could we get back?

I think if they were to move him, it would be in a package for a young, controllable player.

1 for 1 prospect deals are tough to do.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

2 points today, getting him to 27 on the season.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

2 points today, getting him to 27 on the season.

Seeing Tim Erixon at #2 kind of puts a damper on things.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Seeing Tim Erixon at #2 kind of puts a damper on things.

Yes, yes. We know. The SHL recognized it as important enough to mention several times when he broke the record.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Any chance Trouba is the odd man out? Fox and Deangelo revolutionized this team. We might have won the cup with with them 2014, we've been missing that type of D since Leetch. MDZ was not it.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Any chance Trouba is the odd man out? Fox and Deangelo revolutionized this team. We might have won the cup with with them 2014, we've been missing that type of D since Leetch. MDZ was not it.

Trouba isn't going anywhere. He's the 2nd best D-man on the team (defensively). He has a NMC in July. They traded for him not even 12 months ago. Fans need to chill. He's not as bad as people think he is.

Also, regarding the Erixon comment... Did you mention Patrick Wiercioch or Adam Clendening when the Rangers stats and info account was pumping up Miller's numbers last season?

 

[mas0764]

Trouba isn't going anywhere. He's the 2nd best D-man on the team (defensively). He has a NMC in July. They traded for him not even 12 months ago. Fans need to chill. He's not as bad as people think he is.

Also, regarding the Erixon comment... Did you mention Patrick Wiercioch or Adam Clendening when the Rangers stats and info account was pumping up Miller's numbers last season?

I’m not calling to move Trouba but the people who do want to move him aren’t necessarily saying he sucks.

Trouba was acquired before we knew what we had in Fox, ADA, and Lundkvist, and now that all three seem like they are panning out, Trouba is the oldest and most expensive and so on that simple fact he’s the obvious one that would be least attractive for a long term rebuild like ours.

Even if the younger kids only end up as his equals or near-equals.

It’s not realistic though. Way more realistic would be playing someone on an off side.

 

[Raspewtin]

Trouba is worse defensively than he is offensively and has been his entire career.

 

[Star Ocean]

Seeing Tim Erixon at #2 kind of puts a damper on things.

What about victor hedman 3rd?