Value of: Nick Robertson to a non-contending team willing to move a top 4D

[Ezpz]

Xkekaj is older than Robertson.

They're not newborns, they're the same age.

 

[4thline]

They're not newborns, they're the same age.

I tend to agree.
But the poster was clearly implying that X is a younger player brimming with potential

 

[4thline]

Most development growth happens from age 18-21. Age 21-23 is maturity years. Can he produce more in the next two years? Possible but it's built on hope.

This is an oddly pessimistic view on prospects that complete ignores the massive number of players spending quality development time in the A from 20-22 (not to mention NCAA/ Europe etc) and emerging has high end players from 23-26. Then I checked Hamilton/Laval.
Woof. I get it. Absolute prospect graveyard, not a single top 6 graduation from players that played U21/U22 since Paciorietty/Gallagher.

 

[BlueBaron]

Of course, at the deadline with teams out of it, Robertson could certainly be a piece that helps the Leafs win a rental...

But, we're 12 games into the season... there aren't many teams all that keen to sell right now.

You sound sane. How did you get in here?

It's very brave to try and get value for a Leaf prospect.

The problem is despite its name most people on HF don't know anyone who wasn't a first rounder if it isn't their team..

If we are to believe the posters here every team has a guy who scored 55 goals in 46 games in the OHL and who would have the 2nd best shot on our team...

We are told he's a bum who can't make our team despite it being well documented he was capped out of the Opener and was quickly back with us. He can't be very good if he can't easily slip into the top 6 of a top offensive team. These are the fallacies you must endure to have a conversation about a prospect.

Lastly a top 4 Dman is a vague description. Some would argue Holl is a top 4 d man. Age term health and team circumstances give many options on what that D could look like.

But no, you can't get a mystery box for a prospect I'm going to pretend to know....

Regardless it's a bit quick to be trading him. We have other options.

 

[MXD]

You sound sane. How did you get in here?

It's very brave to try and get value for a Leaf prospect.

The problem is despite its name most people on HF don't know anyone who wasn't a first rounder if it isn't their team..

If we are to believe the posters here every team has a guy who scored 55 goals in 46 games in the OHL and who would have the 2nd best shot on our team...

We are told he's a bum who can't make our team despite it being well documented he was capped out of the Opener and was quickly back with us. He can't be very good if he can't easily slip into the top 6 of a top offensive team. These are the fallacies you must endure to have a conversation about a prospect.

Lastly a top 4 Dman is a vague description. Some would argue Holl is a top 4 d man. Age term health and team circumstances give many options on what that D could look like.

But no, you can't get a mystery box for a prospect I'm going to pretend to know....

Regardless it's a bit quick to be trading him. We have other options.

Frankly, I don't even know why he's being offered. Robertson seems to me like the perfect guy to replace a high-salaried forward that will necessarily have to leave for roster-balance reasons.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Frankly, I don't even know why he's being offered. Robertson seems to me like the perfect guy to replace a high-salaried forward that will necessarily have to leave for roster-balance reasons.

Neither do we, tbh.

ELC level guys with 20g potential feels kind of a bad target to trade. Having him and Knies on ELCs next year will be key when Bunting leaves.

 

[MXD]

Neither do we, tbh.

ELC level guys with 20g potential feels kind of a bad target to trade. Having him and Knies on ELCs next year will be key when Bunting leaves.

I was more referring to one of Nylander or Marner, but Bunting does fit the bill too, since he's looking at a substantial raise.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Frankly, I don't even know why he's being offered. Robertson seems to me like the perfect guy to replace a high-salaried forward that will necessarily have to leave for roster-balance reasons.

Your point is legit. It might not be a plan in Dubas' pocket at all. The reason he's up and down from minors might only be due to the cap and nothing more.

I just don't know why when there is cap relief (Muzzin/Murray), that he's scratched. Does he really need more strengthening, time, experience, etc? Toronto can't use him in the top 9 LW right now?

Perhaps Kerfoot will be the first domino to fall? If he's moved then we know that there's a stronger possibility to see Robertson playing on the starting roster full time. The closer it gets to the trade deadline I would say there's a 50/50 chance Robo is traded to bolster TOR's playoff roster.

 

[DuklaNation]

Robertson can be traded for more physical less talented winger. Why trade him? LMAO. You need the right mix to win consistently. Its better when the top players offer versatile games but that isn't the case here. Therefore, the other guys in top 6 need to complement them. Hockey 101.

 

[Habs Halifax]

This is an oddly pessimistic view on prospects that complete ignores the massive number of players spending quality development time in the A from 20-22 (not to mention NCAA/ Europe etc) and emerging has high end players from 23-26. Then I checked Hamilton/Laval.
Woof. I get it. Absolute prospect graveyard, not a single top 6 graduation from players that played U21/U22 since Paciorietty/Gallagher.

I don't see it that way. Usually from age 18-21, you see the best development for players who do reach their ceiling. If it lingers on into the 21-23+ years, you end up with a guy you hope is a late bloomer. Always exceptions to the rule but the exception is not the rule. Most guys just don't reach their ceilings. Reality.

Robertson's development is not over yet and he could be the guy you though you drafted. It's not impossible but he has to start showing signs of production at the NHL level. Just like Sandin, Bracco, Dermott type hope when they are in the age 21-22 years. And yeah, Habs have hope in guys like that too. We all do it so don't pretend this only applies to the Leafs and it's a troll post. Not the angle I'm taking.

 

[Siludin]

Has a deal surrounding N Robertson (TOR) for Thomas Harley (DAL) been discussed?

 

[4thline]

I don't see it that way. Usually from age 18-21, you see the best development for players who do reach their ceiling. If it lingers on into the 21-23+ years, you end up with a guy you hope is a late bloomer. Always exceptions to the rule but the exception is not the rule. Most guys just don't reach their ceilings. Reality.

Robertson's development is not over yet and he could be the guy you though you drafted. It's not impossible but he has to start showing signs of production at the NHL level.

U-18 - .5 goal per game / Point per game ohl
U-19 Goal per game / 1.87 Pt/g Ohl
U20 - .25 goal per game .75 pt/g AHL
U21 - .57 goal per game, point per game AHL

He developed pretty phenomenally from 17-20. He's now in the NHL at 21 (5 points in 7 games so far). The idea that he's got some ticking clock in November of his U22 is crazy.

 

[Matthews4Calder]

To Canadiens: Robertson + Holl ($2m) + 2023 1st (unprotected).

To Maple Leafs: Edmundson @ 50% (2 years until UFA)

Holy are you serious? I wouldn't even trade the 1st straight up for Edmundson let alone throw in 2 more players and I hate Holl.

 

[Habs Halifax]

U-18 - .5 goal per game / Point per game ohl
U-19 Goal per game / 1.87 Pt/g Ohl
U20 - .25 goal per game .75 pt/g AHL
U21 - .57 goal per game, point per game AHL

He developed pretty phenomenally from 17-20. He's now in the NHL at 21 (5 points in 7 games so far). The idea that he's got some ticking clock in November of his U22 is crazy.

I'm aware of his track record. The biggest development challenge is once you turn pro. Everything before that becomes a distant memory. Now you are playing with the big boys. His AHL numbers are solid and he's as expected at that level. NHL has been meh.

At age 21, there is a ticking clock. You don't get to stop the clock at your choice. Reality. You're getting too defensive and think it's a drop off clif at age 21 or you should panic. If you think that, you're not comprehending it well.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

I'm aware of his track record. The biggest development challenge is once you turn pro. Everything before that becomes a distant memory. Now you are playing with the big boys. His AHL numbers are solid and he's as expected at that level. NHL has been meh.

At age 21, there is a ticking clock. You don't get to stop the clock at your choice. Reality. You're getting too defensive and think it's a drop off clif at age 21 or you should panic. If you think that, you're not comprehending it well.

I feel like you are making up some weird doomer clock for him that doesn't exist in the real world.

 

[Mrfenn92]

Has a deal surrounding N Robertson (TOR) for Thomas Harley (DAL) been discussed?

Don’t see Dallas doing that at all

 

[MXD]

Holy are you serious? I wouldn't even trade the 1st straight up for Edmundson let alone throw in 2 more players and I hate Holl.

The proposal doesn't make any sense, but Holl is mostly there for cap purposes, he doesn't have value (I guess).

 

[Habs Halifax]

Holy are you serious? I wouldn't even trade the 1st straight up for Edmundson let alone throw in 2 more players and I hate Holl.

Edmundson does have value but we are not going to get a Robertson and 1st return. I really don't care about Holl cause that is a cap issue. Lets face it... Habs are not helping you out for cheap and the Leafs are not helping us out with futures.

The value in that trade (that you will ignore or you overlooked) is how Eddy replaces Muzzin and how you unload Holl's salary. Replacing Muzzin and having $6.871M in cap space? Lets not pretend this is a readily available option for the Leafs.

Muzzin + Holl + Robertson = $8.421M
Eddy (50% retention) = $1.75M
* $6.871M in cap space

The proposal doesn't make any sense, but Holl is mostly there for cap purposes, he doesn't have value (I guess).

When you look it it more, it does make sense in terms of the Leafs replacing Muzzin and also have tons of cap space to make other moves. Personally, I would not make the trade cause I think we can get a late 1st at the deadline and we don't need Robertson. This helps the Leafs more than the Habs IMO.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I feel like you are making up some weird doomer clock for him that doesn't exist in the real world.

You can feel what you feel but I'm not going to be responsible for your lack of comprehension. Doomer clock is your own narrative. Not mine.

It's not complicated to comprehend correctly.
Age 18-21 is where top 4D and top 6F develop the most gains. Age 21-23 is maturity years. I didn't say Robertson's clock is over at 21 but you are trying to spin it that way. He has to start showing more at the NHL level. Or he follows the Sandin, Bracco, Dermott path of hope from age 21-23. And yes, Habs fans and other fans have fell victim to this hope as well. Most don't make it bud so you're trying to tell me Robertson is the exception to the rule cause he bust out from 21-23.

Dime a Dozen type narrative. 10/12 simply don't turn out. Is Robertson the exception? Possible but not probable at this point in time. But you will comprehend that as me saying it's impossible for him to be that 2/12.

 

[Boondock]

If I'm the Leafs, I hold on to Robertson. After next season the Leafs will be facing some serious decisions around the salary cap. It would be nice to have a top 6 winger making less than $7million. Robertson has looked really good in his limited time in Toronto. I think he has every chance to be a 25goal 55 point winger as soon as next season barring injuries etc. I wouldn't make any serious moves right now if I was the Leafs anyway. Both starting goalies are out and Lil just got back into the line up. Let the team find its rhythm before trading young cost controlled assets. The Leafs will be in the playoffs so they can address any roster concerns closer to the trade deadline.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Don’t see Dallas doing that at all

Agreed.

Top 6 winger hope < Top 4D hope

 

[4thline]

Guys. If the 21 year old with 5 points in 7 games in the first season where most non-elite players crack the NHL doesn't produce in the next two or three years he might not make it. Ignore his excellent development curve and that he's coming along right where he should be. Just look at how he wasn't as good when he was younger and was brought up too soon.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

You can feel what you feel but I'm not going to be responsible for your lack of comprehension. Doomer clock is your own narrative. Not mine.

It's not complicated to comprehend correctly.
Age 18-21 is where top 4D and top 6F develop the most gains. Age 21-23 is maturity years. I didn't say Robertson's clock is over at 21 but you are trying to spin it that way. He has to start showing more at the NHL level. Or he follows the Sandin, Bracco, Dermott path of hope from age 21-23. And yes, Habs fans and other fans have fell victim to this hope as well. Most don't make it bud so you're trying to tell me Robertson is the exception to the rule cause he bust out from 21-23.

Dime a Dozen type narrative. 10/12 simply don't turn out. Is Robertson the exception? Possible but not probable at this point in time. But you will comprehend that as me saying it's impossible for him to be that 2/12.

He's on a 55pt /22g pace with 10mins of icetime - maybe the comprehension issue is you not being able to look up his career stats?

No one is saying he's the exception to the rule.

He doesn't need to be Caufield, we have better players and aren't hand feeding him 4mins of PP each night because we have no one better.

He doesn't have Caufield's talent, few do, but I also don't think he's so far behind that he needs multiple pages of you more or less going "tick tock, Nicky boy".

This doesn't even mention that Caufield is one of the worst defensive players in the entire league, and Keefe is working hard on getting Nick to back check since he won't be able to dominate offensively like Cole can.


Imagine if someone said last year, in Cole's 21 year old season, "you would be lucky to get a bottom pairing defenceman for him". Don't you think you might have thought it's time to pump the brakes?

 

[General Fanager]

This wont be popular but I would keep Robertson and play him when you trade one of the big 4 for defensive help.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

This wont be popular but I would keep Robertson and play him when you trade one of the big 4 for defensive help.

I got to assume dubas goes hard at deadline…. His time has got to be nearing the end if he can’t get passed first round