TSN: Nick Robertson requests trade from Toronto

[Knies iT]

We? Lol.

A player can want out because he wants a fresh start with a new team and usage, he doesn't owe you jack shit and you don't get to pretend like you're part of the team where you were patient with him. You don't know what goes on behind the scenes, there could be a multitude of reasons he wants out of there. But this f***ed up ignorance about players wanting out and then being shitty towards the player - showing what toxic fanbases look like.

Take a deep breath buddy. What an odd thing to have a breakdown over.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Rather sanctimonious take there.

Robertson's stock skycrocketed in his draft plus one year and the Leafs management hoped to accelerate his path to the NHL by giving him top 6 duties in the 2020 bubble playoff series a la Logan Stankoven in Dallas this year, but he wasn't exactly ready and circumstances were difficult.

Between 2021 and 2023, he suffered a knee injury, a broken leg and a season ending shoulder injury from a routine Matt Roy hit and missed a ton of developmental time, NHL spot duty and wasn't much of an option for the Leafs.

Fast forward to 2024, Robertson is 23 and shows some flashes of production, but is otherwise utilized as a young 13th forward on an ELC, shuttled between AHL and NHL duty.

So looking back on this brief history, it's hard to see where the Leafs did this guy wrong other than accelerate the initial promotion which led to some accelerated expectations, plus a series of massive injury setbacks and lost time.

Ideally, the partnership between a team and player is a virtuous cycle of investment and growth and mutually beneficial: player flourishes and becomes a contributing member of a successful team. When you say a player doesn't owe a team anything, that's fine, but why would an organization need to do anything to accommodate if it's not good for the team?

Accusations of the team and fanbase being "toxic" by an outsider is meaningless, especially when they have ulterior motives like wanting to acquire Robertson for pennies on the dollar.

They did him wrong by taking advantage of his waiver exempt status and demoting him to the minors after scoring goals.

 

[Stephen]

They did him wrong by taking advantage of his waiver exempt status and demoting him to the minors after scoring goals.

Which last I checked is how all teams manage their cap: shufle salaries at the bottom to keep guys from hitting waivers, player makes those lost wages back with the snap of a finger on their next contract.

 

[darrylsittler27]

They won't trade him.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Accusations of the team and fanbase being "toxic" by an outsider is meaningless, especially when they have ulterior motives like wanting to acquire Robertson for pennies on the dollar.

Nah I don't want him on the Pens. Sullivan would destroy him. Also you know the reputation of Leafs fans and you still want to talk, lol.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Rather sanctimonious take there.

Robertson's stock skycrocketed in his draft plus one year and the Leafs management hoped to accelerate his path to the NHL by giving him top 6 duties in the 2020 bubble playoff series a la Logan Stankoven in Dallas this year, but he wasn't exactly ready and circumstances were difficult.

Between 2021 and 2023, he suffered a knee injury, a broken leg and a season ending shoulder injury from a routine Matt Roy hit and missed a ton of developmental time, NHL spot duty and wasn't much of an option for the Leafs.

Fast forward to 2024, Robertson is 23 and shows some flashes of production, but is otherwise utilized as a young 13th forward on an ELC, shuttled between AHL and NHL duty.

So looking back on this brief history, it's hard to see where the Leafs did this guy wrong other than accelerate the initial promotion which led to some accelerated expectations, plus a series of massive injury setbacks and lost time.

Ideally, the partnership between a team and player is a virtuous cycle of investment and growth and mutually beneficial: player flourishes and becomes a contributing member of a successful team. When you say a player doesn't owe a team anything, that's fine, but why would an organization need to do anything to accommodate if it's not good for the team?

Accusations of the team and fanbase being "toxic" by an outsider is meaningless, especially when they have ulterior motives like wanting to acquire Robertson for pennies on the dollar.

I think the Leafs' handling of him has been fine. I think what we saw was the limitations of Robertson as a player going forward. He's not suited to be a bottom six player because he's simply got too many holes in his game away from the puck, so he's top six or bust. And the problem with him in the top six is he's basically a guy who could score 25+ goals, but who doesn't seem to utilize his linemates well or see the ice well enough other than as a goal scorer.

IMO, his offensive game is a bit too "horse blinders" for me. He doesn't particularly see his linemates open well enough, and his entire focus is shooting when he gets the puck, even if it's not the best option. That kind of approach might be okay if he's scoring 40+ per season, but that really limits a line's overall effectiveness when it only results in 25-ish goals.

Unless he rounds out his play away from the puck, I think he's always going to be a "specialty" player, where a team has to have the perfect scenario in place for him to be a mainstay in the top six (ie. the other two players are already very good at the other aspects of the game and just need a shooter to mop up the chances they generate). Otherwise, IMO, his net negative will outweigh his net positive.

 

[Phion Keneuf]

He is not that good of a player. AHL player at best

lol I’m sure you’ve watched him enough to come to this conclusion

 

[RoadWarrior]

Which last I checked is how all teams manage their cap: shufle salaries at the bottom to keep guys from hitting waivers, player makes those lost wages back with the snap of a finger on their next contract.

Usually they demote 4th line players. Robertson isn’t exactly a 4th liner. He’s more of a middle six guy with some goal scoring.

I think the Leafs' handling of him has been fine. I think what we saw was the limitations of Robertson as a player going forward. He's not suited to be a bottom six player because he's simply got too many holes in his game away from the puck, so he's top six or bust. And the problem with him in the top six is he's basically a guy who could score 25+ goals, but who doesn't seem to utilize his linemates well or see the ice well enough other than as a goal scorer.

IMO, his offensive game is a bit too "horse blinders" for me. He doesn't particularly see his linemates open well enough, and his entire focus is shooting when he gets the puck, even if it's not the best option. That kind of approach might be okay if he's scoring 40+ per season, but that really limits a line's overall effectiveness when it only results in 25-ish goals.

Unless he rounds out his play away from the puck, I think he's always going to be a "specialty" player, where a team has to have the perfect scenario in place for him to be a mainstay in the top six (ie. the other two players are already very good at the other aspects of the game and just need a shooter to mop up the chances they generate). Otherwise, IMO, his net negative will outweigh his net positive.

If the leafs viewed him as a speciality player he would’ve gotten PP time and that didn’t happen. I think the leafs believe he can be a middle six contributor at both ends. He just needs to stay healthy.

 

[Stephen]

I think the Leafs' handling of him has been fine. I think what we saw was the limitations of Robertson as a player going forward. He's not suited to be a bottom six player because he's simply got too many holes in his game away from the puck, so he's top six or bust. And the problem with him in the top six is he's basically a guy who could score 25+ goals, but who doesn't seem to utilize his linemates well or see the ice well enough other than as a goal scorer.

IMO, his offensive game is a bit too "horse blinders" for me. He doesn't particularly see his linemates open well enough, and his entire focus is shooting when he gets the puck, even if it's not the best option. That kind of approach might be okay if he's scoring 40+ per season, but that really limits a line's overall effectiveness when it only results in 25-ish goals.

Unless he rounds out his play away from the puck, I think he's always going to be a "specialty" player, where a team has to have the perfect scenario in place for him to be a mainstay in the top six (ie. the other two players are already very good at the other aspects of the game and just need a shooter to mop up the chances they generate). Otherwise, IMO, his net negative will outweigh his net positive.

That’s a pretty spot on assessment of Robertson as a player and his limitations so far.

Compared to 2021-2023 Robertson has his best chance for gaining that top 9, middle 6 specialty spot for himself this year. In Toronto. With a new coach. His frustration with the organization seems misplaced.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

You can do better next time I

"Mirror, mirror..."

 

[Leafshater67]

Nick scores 25 this year if he’s healthy

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

probably just trolling? I don't know

Tis the season

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

Nick scores 25 this year if he’s healthy

Not really a huge stretch given he paced for 21 in 13 minutes per ( 14 goals in 56 )

 

[TheBeastCoast]

"Mirror, mirror..."

Anything to actually contribute or just dropping by to be vaguely annoying as usual.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Take a deep breath buddy. What an odd thing to have a breakdown over.

Breakdown? Being annoyed and making a comment isn't a breakdown.

I despised that train of thought about crapping all over a prospect when the Penguins traded theirs away after Sullivan misused them, the biggest hatefest we have for a prospect on the Penguins board by some still to this day is in regards to Daniel Sprong. There's a small faction of idiots that seem to dislike Valtteri Puustinen for literally no reason. To me, if a prospect wants out, fine, I'm 100% ok with that. In the end, it's their future, we don't see the developmental notes they're getting which may be completely against what they've been told by other scouts or blokes that have their best interests at heart.

Some teams hang on to players for so long because of the hope they will break out and the fear that they will break out for someone else that it's sad to see. Imagine being cool with a player failing for someone else because it appeases some petty desire in you to not have that player do well for anyone else because they didn't want to stay for your team or didn't do well for your team. Kind of a dumb thing about sports culture and fandom imo.

That's what I was aiming at.

 

[Leafshater67]

Not really a huge stretch given he paced for 21 in 13 minutes per ( 14 goals in 56 )

Yup, it’s a lock assuming he’s healthy. I think he will take a spot on the second line and pp2 this year and maybe even hit 30.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

They did him wrong by taking advantage of his waiver exempt status and demoting him to the minors after scoring goals.

LMAO, that's how it works in the NHL. if he was playing strong enough they would have waived or traded someone else to fit him. I guess if the Leafs did him wrong than 100% of the league does their youngsters wrong too

 

[RoadWarrior]

LMAO, that's how it works in the NHL. if he was playing strong enough they would have waived or traded someone else to fit him. I guess if the Leafs did him wrong than 100% of the league does their youngsters wrong too

He was demoted after scoring goals. I realize it was a numbers game but you had other guys on the team doing nothing who retained spots.

Of course he also had limited ice time in the playoffs. There's no question that Keefe didn’t trust him last year.

My argument is that since Keefe is now gone Robertson should get a fresh start with a new coaching staff. His goals per 60 numbers are really good. Guy could pot 25 if given an opportunity.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Which last I checked is how all teams manage their cap: shufle salaries at the bottom to keep guys from hitting waivers, player makes those lost wages back with the snap of a finger on their next contract.

I understand the situation from the leafs standpoint but my guess is that he felt there were other less productive players more deserving of a demotion.

What I don’t understand is that the guy who lacked confidence in him was obviously Sheldon Keefe who is no longer with the team. With the departure of Bertuzzi opening up a spot in the top 6 it actually represents a good opportunity for Robertson to exploit this season. Possibly with PP time.

So unless Berube or Tre has specifically told him his role on the team will be limited then I don’t understand the ongoing animosity or reluctance to sign unless there is actually a dispute over the contract. Robertson was as productive as many $4M AAV players at least in terms of his scoring rate per 60 minutes. Perhaps based on a single season he wants a payday.

In truth he only has leverage to demand a slight pay increase but as an RFA he will never get $4M per until he can demonstrate more consistency. The smart move for Robertson would be to bet on himself and sign a one year deal.

 

[Stephen]

I understand the situation from the leafs standpoint but my guess is that he felt there were other less productive players more deserving of a demotion.

I understand why someone might be frustrated in those situations when chomping at the bit to build an NHL career.

But if a 22 year old kid with minimum toe hold in the league is looking around the room, playing GM and coach in his head and thinking X, Y, Z teammate should go on waivers... and it drives him to a trade request? That's not an ego I really want in my culture.

 

[RoadWarrior]

I understand why someone might be frustrated in those situations when chomping at the bit to build an NHL career.

But if a 22 year old kid with minimum toe hold in the league is looking around the room, playing GM and coach in his head and thinking X, Y, Z teammate should go on waivers... and it drives him to a trade request? That's not an ego I really want in my culture.

It does smack of entitlement. However that seems all too often to be the norm these days. There’s also a ton of bad advice from agents.

 

[RoadWarrior]

That’s a pretty spot on assessment of Robertson as a player and his limitations so far.

Compared to 2021-2023 Robertson has his best chance for gaining that top 9, middle 6 specialty spot for himself this year. In Toronto. With a new coach. His frustration with the organization seems misplaced.

I think the Leafs' handling of him has been fine. I think what we saw was the limitations of Robertson as a player going forward. He's not suited to be a bottom six player because he's simply got too many holes in his game away from the puck, so he's top six or bust. And the problem with him in the top six is he's basically a guy who could score 25+ goals, but who doesn't seem to utilize his linemates well or see the ice well enough other than as a goal scorer.

IMO, his offensive game is a bit too "horse blinders" for me. He doesn't particularly see his linemates open well enough, and his entire focus is shooting when he gets the puck, even if it's not the best option. That kind of approach might be okay if he's scoring 40+ per season, but that really limits a line's overall effectiveness when it only results in 25-ish goals.

Unless he rounds out his play away from the puck, I think he's always going to be a "specialty" player, where a team has to have the perfect scenario in place for him to be a mainstay in the top six (ie. the other two players are already very good at the other aspects of the game and just need a shooter to mop up the chances they generate). Otherwise, IMO, his net negative will outweigh his net positive.

Having the ability to score 25 or 30 goals with some added PP time will always make Robertson a desirable player to have especially on an offense starved team. There’s plenty of guys around the league getting middle six ice time who have deficincies in their games. For Robertson most of the time shooting is his best option as he has one of the best shots in the league.

He actually did make some solid defensive plays during the course of the season. IMO his biggest limiting factor is his lack of strength in winning board battles which can hurt him in the defensive zone.

The issues with Robertson has a lot to do with some friction with Sheldon Keefe. Keefe made a number of comments on his lack of consistency. He was inconsistent at times but it’s a chicken and egg argument as his ice time was cut by Keefe on a regular basis.

Now that Keefe and Bertuzzi are gone he will by default get more opportunity.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

He was demoted after scoring goals. I realize it was a numbers game but you had other guys on the team doing nothing who retained spots.

Of course he also had limited ice time in the playoffs. There's no question that Keefe didn’t trust him last year.

My argument is that since Keefe is now gone Robertson should get a fresh start with a new coaching staff. His goals per 60 numbers are really good. Guy could pot 25 if given an opportunity.

so what, scoring goals isn't everything just ask Jeremy Williams who scored a goal his 1st game in like 5 times one season.

Robertson's overall game wasn't strong enough to force himself in. when you compared him to another player it was pretty simple to demote the exempt player and not lose someone for nothing.

well he doesn't wanna play here anymore unfortunately.

 

[RoadWarrior]

so what, scoring goals isn't everything just ask Jeremy Williams who scored a goal his 1st game in like 5 times one season.

Robertson's overall game wasn't strong enough to force himself in. when you compared him to another player it was pretty simple to demote the exempt player and not lose someone for nothing.

well he doesn't wanna play here anymore unfortunately.

There could be other factors in why he doesn’t want to play here. He’s an American citizen from California. Maybe he wants to be traded to a California based team like Trevor Moore.

He’s got no leverage because his only other option is playing in Europe for less than league minimum. If he doesn’t sign by December 1st he’s ineligible to play in the NHL this year. Obviously he’s getting bad advice from his agent.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

There could be other factors in why he doesn’t want to play here. He’s an American citizen from California. Maybe he wants to be traded to a California based team like Trevor Moore.

He’s got no leverage because his only other option is playing in Europe for less than league minimum. If he doesn’t sign by December 1st he’s ineligible to play in the NHL this year. Obviously he’s getting bad advice from his agent.

Yeah I dunno what he's thinking here. he should be excited that he finally has a strong chance to play in the top 6, and a fresh start with a new coach.