Confirmed with Link: Nick Ritchie to Toronto (2x2.5M AAV)

[Racer88]

Both those teams had one single star caliber player and were always just gritty underdogs to the true elite teams.



Think about this way - I've waited literally decades for us to collect this type of prime super elite talent together.

I am in no hurry whatsoever to see them go. And definitely not in their young primes. It is much, much harder to obtain super elite talent than you think, believe me.

Are they really super elite talent when they fold when it really matters.
I would rather they stay as well and actually perform but if they continue to fail to live up to the hype what is the point

 

[Gary Nylund]

Absolutely, however when your 60g scorer, and 95pt man go dry in the most important time of the season, it is tough to blame anyone else.

Imagine if Mack and Rantanen go dry for a whole playoff series. Or Kuch or Point do. They probably also don't win their series.

I don't disagree that more depth is good, but I am pretty sure our depth players scored at a very similar pace to the defending champs depth players. Really it was our star players that didn't come through. Obviously that is a different concern...

Sure, if I'm looking to point the finger at someone I start with Marner, no doubt about it. But only 6 forwards had more than one point in 7 games which indicates a top heavy team which is exactly what we are. And that's why I like the idea of trading Marner and icing a more balanced roster. Imagine if instead of Marner and two 1m guys (13m total) we had say two 4m guys and one 5m guy, would that be bad? We'd still have a "big 3" that matches up well against the top 3 of most other teams but a much deeper supporting cast. Maybe too many eggs in too few baskets is a problem?

 

[zeke]

@zeke

Yes, I like having a Rocket winner too. And another top 5 scorer, arguably the best playmaker in the league on talent.

I’m 42 years old. Having some degree of success in the playoffs felt much, much better, to me anyhow.

Mitch Marner and Auston Matthews are more talented than Darcy Tucker (as a random example, fist guy came to my head).

Do the love they leafs more, or as much as Darcy Tucker did? Those guys played playoff games like theie mothers lives were on the line. Imagine Matthews with that sort of intensity and drive (when hockey matters).

The Ottawa Senators were more flashy and skilled back then. They used to fly. We beat them 4 straight playoff series on row. It was glorious. Got to the point where you knew, regardless of regular season standings, we were gonna eat them. The league knew too. It became that era of Sens reputation, and ultimately, their legacy.

Back then, you would’ve rather been them than us, because they had a note skilled and flashy lineup?

Yes I would rather have been the Sens, because they actually had the talent to win, and if they hadn't made a disastrous decision to sign redden instead of chars they probably would have. Though we're in an even better position than them because they never had a Matthews, let alone a matthews-tavares tandem.

Just like back in the dougie days I would have rather been the young choking red wings than our gritty veteran underdog team.

 

[zeke]

The Leafs were always under-talented under the Fletcher/Burns and Quinn eras when they were competitive teams, so the need to collect young high end skill is something this era has done better than previous regimes at. But you also need to balance the need to collect talent with real cohesive team building which this regime has struggled at more than those eras. And if we ever had to move on from a Core 4 piece it would only be done so the team is stronger and more well rounded, like when Detroit moved Primeau and Coffey for Brendan Shanahan. Having talent is nice, we also don't want to end up like Spezza, Alfredsson, Healtey. Ritchie will likely fill a role like a McCarty if he works out.

If you want to trade elite talent for elite talent, I'm listening.

Shanahan of course was much better than primeau was or ever became, and Coffey was just an old guy at that point.

 

[meefer]

If Ritchie can play a motivated 15 minutes a night, contribute 15-20, and let the other team know they can't take liberties with his line-mates without facing some consequences he's a benefit to the team. A net front presence on the PP is a possible bonus. I'm not looking for miracles, I'm looking for the consistency I think his talents can provide.

 

[Stephen]

If you want to trade elite talent for elite talent, I'm listening.

Shanahan of course was much better than primeau was or ever became, and Coffey was just an old guy at that point.

Yeah, I mean Dubas' talking points about hesitating to dispose of the core or losing in a trade didn't make a lot of sense to me. Because any combination of those guys going out ought to be a battleship for battleship or a boat load of futures (and cap space) which would then buy another elite piece.

I'm not in favor of taking a haircut on the talent level, but I am open minded about being willing to move off of one of the Core 4 for another Core 4 piece.

 

[koyvoo]

Yes I would rather have been the Sens, because they actually had the talent to win, and if they hadn't made a disastrous decision to sign redden instead of chars they probably would have. Though we're in an even better position than them because they never had a Matthews, let alone a matthews-tavares tandem.

Just like back in the dougie days I would have rather been the young choking red wings than our gritty veteran underdog team.

The talent to win, without putting in the work, is useless. As those Sens proved back then, and we are proving now.

It’s funny you mention the wings. Do you realize a big part of the franchise to turnaround and start wining was getting their most important player to buy into a system that would see his scoring totals drop by 30-40%? Yzerman bought in to Bowman sold, and he was never a truly elite scorer again. He understood that talent alone and without a certain will to win doesn’t do much in the playoffs. This is hockey lore. Same like the story Gretzky tells of he and Lowe walking past the Isles dressing room after Edmonton’s first cup final loss.

You think these two would buy into that? You think that Detroit fans enjoyed their super talented, gutless teams having first round exits more than the more multifaceted team that won cups? Go ask them. They have a forum on HF.

It’s moot really. It’s clear you don’t value winning when hockey matters and all players are playing vs us with more more compete than they do during the regular season. That’s fine. It’s subjective, and that’s good enough for you.

Myself, another Rocket and two top five scoring finishes, should they be followed by a quick playoff exit where they failed to play and produce to their standards and abilities will only upset me more, and will only embolden my personal view that when it really counts, they’re losers.

 

[koyvoo]

I’m not even saying that moving on is the only option, the option I definitely want, or anything of the sort. It’s scary, and could burn us.

I’m just shocked at the notion that some people would be ok with these two should things be exactly the same 4-5 seasons from now.

We should have a parade, for having two real talented players. That’s what feels good. Having talent is the ultimate feeling a fan could have.

Not the parade for winning, like the raptors and blue jays had, that or others who experienced them will never forget.

 

[zeke]

The talent to win, without putting in the work, is useless. As those Sens proved back then, and we are proving now.

It’s funny you mention the wings. Do you realize a big part of the franchise to turnaround and start wining was getting their most important player to buy into a system that would see his scoring totals drop by 30-40%? Yzerman bought in to Bowman sold, and he was never a truly elite scorer again. He understood that talent alone and without a certain will to win doesn’t do much in the playoffs. This is hockey lore. Same like the story Gretzky tells of he and Lowe walking past the Isles dressing room after Edmonton’s first cup final loss.

You think these two would buy into that? You think that Detroit fans enjoyed their super talented, gutless teams having first round exits more than the more multifaceted team that won cups? Go ask them. They have a forum on HF.

It’s moot really. It’s clear you don’t value winning when hockey matters and all players are playing vs us with more more compete than they do during the regular season. That’s fine. It’s subjective, and that’s good enough for you.

Myself, another Rocket and two top five scoring finishes, should they be followed by a quick playoff exit where they failed to play and produce to their standards and abilities will only upset me more, and will only embolden my personal view that when it really counts, they’re losers.

Eh. Yzerman played through a change in era. He was still an elite scorer even in the cup winning dead puck era.

But even if this clichéd story is true - doesn't that just prove that giving up on super elite talent is a bad idea?

And those sens made it to the cup finals even AFTER letting Chara go in one of the worst decisions ever. They keep him they likely win that cup and maybe more.

 

[ULF_55]

Yeah, I mean Dubas' talking points about hesitating to dispose of the core or losing in a trade didn't make a lot of sense to me. Because any combination of those guys going out ought to be a battleship for battleship or a boat load of futures (and cap space) which would then buy another elite piece.

I'm not in favor of taking a haircut on the talent level, but I am open minded about being willing to move off of one of the Core 4 for another Core 4 piece.

Kind of the opposite, Wendel for Sundin.

 

[Gabriel426]

Didn’t Wings drafted a few Russians and a Swede, made many trades before becoming a Dynasty, it wasn’t just Yzerman buying in.
Sakic and the Nords/Avs traded away three No.1 overall picks-Nolan, Sundin and Lindros(had to) and laid the foundations for their Dynasty.
Point I am trying to make is that if there is a good trade that will help the team win the Cup, you make that trade.

 

[Mess]

No hypotheticals. This is us when hockey matters.
View attachment 458663

That is only back to 2010, but our Zero goes back 6 more years earlier to 2004.

 

[Mess]

Nick Ritchie takes a lot of needless and lazy penalties that David Kampf is going to counted on to help kill off. I can already see Leaf Nation lighting up and singling out Ritchie when those excess penalties result in goals against and potential losses.

This might be one of the reason Boston let a 25 year old RFA player making $1.5 mil coming off a career best year with 15 goals walk away without qualifying him.. Its surprising that they didn't try and trade him and get a return as in pick or prospect or even move up in the draft etc as he is an RFA not UFA. Maybe they tried and had no interest from anyone.

As far as asset management goes I can just imagine if Ritchie were a Leaf and pending RFA at age 25 and Leafs decided not interested and didn't qualify him and just let him walk out the door for nothing but cap space recovery the outrage that would followed (myself included). So there must be something here that Boston knows and why they cut him loose that we're still missing here from this full picture as in attitude, conditioning, etc.

Our Leafs however were not only interest at the $1.5 mil original price point by swooping in and turned his former $1.5 mil into a new $2.5 mil X 2 year deal, and now he is being pegged to replace Hyman who use to make $2.25 mil making the cap usage hit similar.

 

[nsleaf]

Isn't having the will to win a part of being talented?

 

[Clark4Ever]

Nick Ritchie takes a lot of needless and lazy penalties that David Kampf is going to counted on to help kill off. I can already see Leaf Nation lighting up and singling out Ritchie when those excess penalties result in goals against and potential losses.

This might be one of the reason Boston let a 25 year old RFA player making $1.5 mil coming off a career best year with 15 goals walk away without qualifying him.. Its surprising that they didn't try and trade him and get a return as in pick or prospect or even move up in the draft etc as he is an RFA not UFA. Maybe they tried and had no interest from anyone.

As far as asset management goes I can just imagine if Ritchie were a Leaf and pending RFA at age 25 and Leafs decided not interested and didn't qualify him and just let him walk out the door for nothing but cap space recovery the outrage that would followed (myself included). So there must be something here that Boston knows and why they cut him loose that we're still missing here from this full picture as in attitude, conditioning, etc.

Our Leafs however were not only interest at the $1.5 mil original price point by swooping in and turned his former $1.5 mil into a new $2.5 mil X 2 year deal, and now he is being pegged to replace Hyman who use to make $2.25 mil making the cap usage hit similar.

Ritchie has the tools to be an impact player. He's still only 25, so there could be some upside, and some power forwards don't hit their prime until their mid to late 20's, depending on their development curve.

His deficiencies are correctable, and sometimes a change of scenery is all it takes for players to reach their potential.

I think he deserves the benefit of coming to camp with a clean slate rather than being labeled. Let him determine his own reputation in the blue and white.

 

[saltming]

Our two new players

 

[studebaker17]

Nick Ritchie takes a lot of needless and lazy penalties that David Kampf is going to counted on to help kill off. I can already see Leaf Nation lighting up and singling out Ritchie when those excess penalties result in goals against and potential losses.

This might be one of the reason Boston let a 25 year old RFA player making $1.5 mil coming off a career best year with 15 goals walk away without qualifying him.. Its surprising that they didn't try and trade him and get a return as in pick or prospect or even move up in the draft etc as he is an RFA not UFA. Maybe they tried and had no interest from anyone.

As far as asset management goes I can just imagine if Ritchie were a Leaf and pending RFA at age 25 and Leafs decided not interested and didn't qualify him and just let him walk out the door for nothing but cap space recovery the outrage that would followed (myself included). So there must be something here that Boston knows and why they cut him loose that we're still missing here from this full picture as in attitude, conditioning, etc.

Our Leafs however were not only interest at the $1.5 mil original price point by swooping in and turned his former $1.5 mil into a new $2.5 mil X 2 year deal, and now he is being pegged to replace Hyman who use to make $2.25 mil making the cap usage hit similar.

Boston had to qualify at 2 million , they didn't so he became UFA . But yeah seems strange they didn't trade him before hand getting back something. Maybe last min decision left it to late on bringing Hall back ?

 

[Mess]

Ritchie has the tools to be an impact player. He's still only 25, so there could be some upside, and some power forwards don't hit their prime until their mid to late 20's, depending on their development curve.

His deficiencies are correctable, and sometimes a change of scenery is all it takes for players to reach their potential.

I think he deserves the benefit of coming to camp with a clean slate rather than being labeled. Let him determine his own reputation in the blue and white.

I'm not questioning his age nor his upside, but rather his somewhat surprising availability as he would have needed to be acquired via trade as a RFA and not as a UFA with a sudden walk away by Boston.

I'm just wondering what is on that slate that needs cleaning and a reset?

 

[Mess]

Boston had to qualify at 2 million , they didn't so he became UFA . But yeah seems strange they didn't trade him before hand getting back something. Maybe last min decision left it to late on bringing Hall back ?

Leafs are paying him $2.5 mil which is more than his qualifying offer would have been. So obviously contract price is not the issue.

So even if the Bruins would have qualified him at $2 mil our Leafs would or should still have been interested in acquiring him as they were willing to sign him for even more than his QO.

Did the Bruins just cut him without first trying to trade him and get something in return, that doesn't seem logical? They could have qualified him and then taken their time trading him all summer for another asset, and teams that missed out in free agency might have circled back to acquire him in trade.

Something is missing from this puzzle to make this story and outcome make sense, as this is not what usually happens with younger players coming off a career best goals at age 25 with upside and potential.

 

[pucksakes666]

Find the old video where don cherry was complaining because took a Swede in nylandet over Canadian born Ritchie

 

[zeke]

Find the old video where don cherry was complaining because took a Swede in nylandet over Canadian born Ritchie

 

[Dekes For Days]

Something is missing from this puzzle to make this story and outcome make sense

Yes, you have excluded something very obvious from the puzzle - arbitration.

 

[Minty Cowboy]

Rick friggen Nitchie

 

[Mess]

Yes, you have excluded something very obvious from the puzzle - arbitration.

Teams have RFA players all the time that have arbitration rights, is that a good reason to toss a young asset away for nothing?

This seems more like the exception here than the norm.

Ritchie was making $1.5 mil, his qualifying offer was $2 mil and he signed with the Leafs for $2.5 mil, so are you saying Boston feared an arbitrator would have given him more?

 

[LeafChief]

Teams have RFA players all the time that have arbitration rights, is that a good reason to toss a young asset away for nothing?

This seems more like the exception here than the norm.

Ritchie was making $1.5 mil, his qualifying offer was $2 mil and he signed with the Leafs for $2.5 mil, so are you saying Boston feared an arbitrator would have given him more?

It's almost like this has never happened before. It's almost as if the Leafs haven't taken advantage of this before.

It's almost as it Clarke MacArthur wasn't acquired in this exact way.