Nick Ritchie discussion - clears waivers

[ACC1224]

TBD

Really going to come down to see what happens in the playoffs and if we can get some meaningful contribution from Ritchie this year.

Agree with that.

 

[4thline]

I stopped reading when I got to "Zeke".

Just kidding, IMO those are valid questions. My first thoughts regarding point A are that I'm more worried about getting bang for the buck as a team then I am about getting bang for the buck for every individual player. So it the team is rolling, it's all good for me. We also don't have a major weakness to address anywhere so I don't feel any urgency to make changes. But maybe the biggest issue is, what if we move Ritchie and Simmonds gets hurt? I'd rather not see what happens then, I'm a little bit afraid of what we might see.

Regarding point B - that's a tougher question. I guess I'll have to think about that one a bit, or maybe I'll just give the cop out answer and say that it's up to Keefe to figure it out. But yeah, good question.

Re Simmonds getting hurt, brings up the 3rd question, in a 4th line role, is his added offense and PP2 usage worth 1.5 mil more than Clifford?

Likewise, if we weren't hard up against the cap I wouldn't worry. But if Keefe decides that Engvall's transition and defensive ability on that line an PK for special teams is more important, 2.5 is a lot to have in the pressbox.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Well when the teams fully healthy he’s at best the 13/14th forward. You expect better for $2.5aav and frankly need better with the roster/cap construction of this team.

 

[Nylanderthal]

The debate should be about, instead of waisting $2.5 mil on Ritchie and $3.8 mil on Mrazek, the Leafs could simply have re-signed Hyman and had a top 6 winger with 20-30 goal potential and secured a cost effective reliable backup goalie capable of giving the Leafs 15-20 games in relief. IMO

0 interest in Hyman for his contract demands. Give it a rest. Mrazek or someone making around his cap aav were always going to be signed this past offseason to split the net.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Re Simmonds getting hurt, brings up the 3rd question, in a 4th line role, is his added offense and PP2 usage worth 1.5 mil more than Clifford?

Likewise, if we weren't hard up against the cap I wouldn't worry. But if Keefe decides that Engvall's transition and defensive ability on that line an PK for special teams is more important, 2.5 is a lot to have in the pressbox.

Maybe, I would only add that Ritchie has been a lot better lately so whatever numbers show how terrible Ritchie is, I'm not sure how worried we should be about them. I'm also not sure how worried we should be about being up against the cap, I'll admit I'm not that well versed in cap intricacies so maybe it's a problem, I really have no idea.

 

[Gary Nylund]

0 interest in Hyman for his contract demands. Give it a rest. Mrazek or someone making around his cap aav were always going to be signed this past offseason to split the net.

This. I love Hyman but ...

 

[4thline]

Maybe, I would only add that Ritchie has been a lot better lately so whatever numbers show how terrible Ritchie is, I'm not sure how worried we should be about them. I'm also not sure how worried we should be about being up against the cap, I'll admit I'm not that well versed in cap intricacies so maybe it's a problem, I really have no idea.

If we're ever healthy either one of Sandin/Liljegren goes down, or one of Ritchie/Engvall gets waived (and likely claimed). We have zero flexibility to carry spares at both F and D and make rotations for different looks, ice our best team.

 

[Gary Nylund]

If we're ever healthy either one of Sandin/Liljegren goes down, or one of Ritchie/Engvall gets waived (and likely claimed). We have zero flexibility to carry spares at both F and D and make rotations for different looks, ice our best team.

Got it, I thought it was something like that but good summary. So we'll see what happens I guess, I'm not losing any sleep over it. Maybe Mrazek gets traded tomorrow for a cheaper backup and problem solved, who knows. I kind of like the idea of having Ritchie around though, if he keeps playing the way he's been playing lately it would suck to lose him.

 

[LaPlante94]

Well when the teams fully healthy he’s at best the 13/14th forward. You expect better for $2.5aav and frankly need better with the roster/cap construction of this team.

My thing is this and the reason why I defend Ritchie. The same people complaining about Ritchie and wanting him gone to free up cap are the same ones who have defended Holl. When Holl has been our 6th/7th best d man they would just say he has chemistry with Muzzin.Which is funny because they'd ignore all those other stats they throw around that would say that he was being carried by Muzzin and was by far our worst d man but won't ignore those stats when it comes to Ritchie even though every line he's played on has played well and usually controlled possession. Was he the reason for it? No, but chemistry though right?

We haven't really seen Ritchie scoring much yet but did start to pick up his production and started to pick up points in 6 of his last 10 games and he's had many good scoring chances and has been robbed. Sounds exactly like a player we had last season.

So because of this I'll just throw their own terms/what they said back in their face and say if it ain't broke don't fix it. Our forwards aren't an issue and a bottom 6 player isn't going to make or break this team especially when he wasn't really brought in to be a huge scoring threat. Can't say the same about that 2nd pair on defence we got though that we almost pay 8 million dollars for though.

 

[seanlinden]

My thing is this and the reason why I defend Ritchie. The same people complaining about Ritchie and wanting him gone to free up cap are the same ones who have defended Holl. When Holl has been our 6th/7th best d man they would just say he has chemistry with Muzzin.Which is funny because they'd ignore all those other stats they throw around that would say that he was being carried by Muzzin and was by far our worst d man but won't ignore those stats when it comes to Ritchie even though every line he's played on has played well and usually controlled possession. Was he the reason for it? No, but chemistry though right?

We haven't really seen Ritchie scoring much yet but did start to pick up his production and started to pick up points in 6 of his last 10 games and he's had many good scoring chances and has been robbed. Sounds exactly like a player we had last season.

So because of this I'll just throw their own terms/what they said back in their face and say if it ain't broke don't fix it. Our forwards aren't an issue and a bottom 6 player isn't going to make or break this team especially when he wasn't really brought in to be a huge scoring threat. Can't say the same about that 2nd pair on defence we got though that we almost pay 8 million dollars for though.

Have to echo this a bit...

Toronto has been desperate for toughness and side in their top 6. It has been plainly obvious since the somewhat failed Clifford experiment, and how often Wayne Simmonds was seeing extended stints on the top line last year, and then the high price they paid for Nick Foligno.

Ritchie of course hasn't brought this as of yet; but he's the only guy that possesses the theoretical tools to do so. They're not going to dump him for cap space to maybe be used later.

Sure, he's a likely casualty if the Leafs want to add a higher dollar player at the deadline; but to be honest, I think the Leafs are going to have a pretty quiet deadline. Up front, they should love their right side with how Kase & Nylander have performed. Marner may not be living up to his deal, but he's still a #1 RW. At centre, Kampf has solidified himself as a super-reliable shutdown C; and the injury risk to Tavares/Matthews is somewhat insulated with Kerfoot on the left and Spezza on the 4th line. Even on the left side, if Miheyev can consistently bring that north-south speed and puck control, he's going to help that third line continue to dominate the advanced stats and may earn himself a look in the top 6. On D, you're not going to mess with Rielly/Brodie/Muzzin; you have 2 solid middle aged depth guys in Dermott & Holl, and you want to continue to give Sandin & Liljegren opportunities.

Sure, there may be an upgrade option with a guy like Holl, but that's a pretty specific ask.

 

[TML1967]

Well when the teams fully healthy he’s at best the 13/14th forward. You expect better for $2.5aav and frankly need better with the roster/cap construction of this team.

I think you just someone who has a more obvious 'thing'.
They talked about this a few times on the SD podcast, that you need your bottom 6 guys to have at least one thing they are truly good at, or are being used for.

Looking at teams who need to find more scoring, I would just want a guy who can do 1 thing well, and can skate.

Henrik Borgstrom at least is a really good play driving C. He may not have developed offensively enough to be a 3rd liner yet, but he plays smart D and skates decently enough.
I'd add a bit to Ritchie to get Hagel, dude is another Bunting (lite), and is a million dollar savings.

 

[TMLAM34]

I think you just someone who has a more obvious 'thing'.
They talked about this a few times on the SD podcast, that you need your bottom 6 guys to have at least one thing they are truly good at, or are being used for.

Looking at teams who need to find more scoring, I would just want a guy who can do 1 thing well, and can skate.

Henrik Borgstrom at least is a really good play driving C. He may not have developed offensively enough to be a 3rd liner yet, but he plays smart D and skates decently enough.
I'd add a bit to Ritchie to get Hagel, dude is another Bunting (lite), and is a million dollar savings.

Hagel would be a nice low key addition. Not sure where he’d really fit in the lineup with Mikheyev back now. Seems like he’d be a waste on the 4th line with Spezza and Simmonds. Unless we package Mikheyev with a decent prospect for Hagel, I don’t see it really working out.

 

[as Pure as Evil]

i still think he has a purpose and we will see his worth by the end of the season and in to the playoffs. the fact he is everyones biggest gripe shows how well this team has done so far

 

[aingefan]

Obvi, Nicks gonna get two points and be a force tonight, just to complicate things.

 

[ottomaddox]

1 shot on goal.

some progress...

 

[Nylanderthal]

My thing is this and the reason why I defend Ritchie. The same people complaining about Ritchie and wanting him gone to free up cap are the same ones who have defended Holl. When Holl has been our 6th/7th best d man they would just say he has chemistry with Muzzin.Which is funny because they'd ignore all those other stats they throw around that would say that he was being carried by Muzzin and was by far our worst d man but won't ignore those stats when it comes to Ritchie even though every line he's played on has played well and usually controlled possession. Was he the reason for it? No, but chemistry though right?

We haven't really seen Ritchie scoring much yet but did start to pick up his production and started to pick up points in 6 of his last 10 games and he's had many good scoring chances and has been robbed. Sounds exactly like a player we had last season.

So because of this I'll just throw their own terms/what they said back in their face and say if it ain't broke don't fix it. Our forwards aren't an issue and a bottom 6 player isn't going to make or break this team especially when he wasn't really brought in to be a huge scoring threat. Can't say the same about that 2nd pair on defence we got though that we almost pay 8 million dollars for though.

Both players can go for all I care, but I would say the argument for allowing Holl more runway to work it out is he’s proven to have done it before on this team. Not to mention he plays a much more premium position at RHD and his cap hit is lower. If Holl figures it out and returns to form he’s a #4 that was half of one the leagues best shut down pairs. If Ritchies comes around he’s a player who is can only be effective in one zone when he eventually gets there and can give you 12-15G on the bottom 6.

 

[LaPlante94]

Both players can go for all I care, but I would say the argument for allowing Holl more runway to work it out is he’s proven to have done it before on this team. Not to mention he plays a much more premium position at RHD and his cap hit is lower. If Holl figures it out and returns to form he’s a #4 that was half of one the leagues best shut down pairs. If Ritchies comes around he’s a player who is can only be effective in one zone when he eventually gets there and can give you 12-15G on the bottom 6.

That's the thing though, Holl literally had 1 good stretch of games and that was it. Never really proved anything but we keep trying to make him be that guy when he's not. I'm not even mad at the contract because if he actually did pan out then having a legit top 4 d man at 2.5 is a steal but we didn't luck out and luckily it wasn't a long term deal. You already know there's many GMs out there who'll actually think he's a legit top 4 d man too so why not trade him and get a pretty good deal for him while we can. After this season so far though that trade value has probably decreased a bit though but who knows.

 

[Phion Keneuf]

I wouldn’t be mad if this was his last game as a Leaf

 

[zeke]

That's the thing though, Holl literally had 1 good stretch of games and that was it. Never really proved anything but we keep trying to make him be that guy when he's not. I'm not even mad at the contract because if he actually did pan out then having a legit top 4 d man at 2.5 is a steal but we didn't luck out and luckily it wasn't a long term deal. You already know there's many GMs out there who'll actually think he's a legit top 4 d man too so why not trade him and get a pretty good deal for him while we can. After this season so far though that trade value has probably decreased a bit though but who knows.

He's legit top 4 and he costs only 2.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

Here's my feelings on Ritchie. The Leafs the past few years had way too many of the same type of player. Dubas addressed this in the offseason by getting a pest (Bunting), Defensive shut down center (Kampf) and a big body power forward (Ritchie). The point of having Ritchie is that we now formed more of a swiss army knife type team to adjust and compete with any team we go up against. And have another (different type of) tool to throw on the ice if the game dictates it. It was never going to be about Ritchie scoring big points, it was always about a big body we could throw on the ice to either stand in front of the goalie or for his forecheck and ability to get to the net without much disruption. We've tried many, many times to run it back with the same type of players on all 4 lines which hasn't worked and now we have addressed it with trying different players who can provide different aspects to the game for when it is required.

Sorry but being a fat guy is not a tool that leads to success for your NHL team employer

 

[Antropovsky]

1 shot on goal.

some progress...

This is a Ritchie thread not a Marner one.

 

[Stonehands1990]

I’m curious what everyone expects from Ritchie in a 4th line capacity?
He was never gonna work beside 34 & 16. They’re too fast and play a rush game.
He was never gonna play on the shutdown line with Kampf
The best fit for him would have been beside Tavares so they could play the cycle game but Keefe prefers to use Kerfoot in that spot and Ritchie was never given a fair audition there

He’s now playing 8-10 minutes a night on the 4th line. Nobody is every gonna impress you with that usage

 

[Gary Nylund]

This is a Ritchie thread not a Marner one.

We should merge these two threads, just for the shizzles.

 

[Gallagbi]

I’m curious what everyone expects from Ritchie in a 4th line capacity?
He was never gonna work beside 34 & 16. They’re too fast and play a rush game.
He was never gonna play on the shutdown line with Kampf
The best fit for him would have been beside Tavares so they could play the cycle game but Keefe prefers to use Kerfoot in that spot and Ritchie was never given a fair audition there

He’s now playing 8-10 minutes a night on the 4th line. Nobody is every gonna impress you with that usage

Attention to detail defensively, throw his weight around, cycle with the other big bodies on that line.

 

[ponder]

Classic Nick Ritchie speed, effort and defensive awareness on the Perlini goal tonight:



Dude sucks.