Player Discussion Nicholas Robertson vs. Ryan Reaves

[Ianturnedbull]

A few games of slightly less bad opportunity mixed into a sea of bad opportunity is not great opportunity.

This is a triple negative. Did Robertson not get any opportunity with this organization?

 

[BraveCanadian]

This is a triple negative. Did Robertson not get any opportunity with this organization?

Not much of one so far tbh.. limited ice time with plugs isn’t how you develop small skill based forwards

 

[Gallagbi]

He's not massively better. That's hyperbole too.

When you look at Robertson's game logs:

1× over 15 min
4x over 14 min
1x over 16 min
1x over 17 min

Any player in the NHL could do a lot more with this opportunity. Reaves could for sure.

Robertson has been expensive for this organization. I'm not talking about his contract. I'm talking about the investment in this player: from drafting, the AHL, and now on the Leafs.

Reaves is a borderline unplayable 4th liner. He gets sheltered ES time and can't play in tight games. I want more from Robertson, but the game has passed Reaves by.

 

[Menzinger]

Neither really should be in the lineup come game 1 if the playoffs

Reaves is one of the oldest forwards in the league who can't keep up with the play. When he's at his best these days the team is barely getting replacement level play from the guy

Robertson hasn't clicked and may never will. He needs another team to see for sure

 

[Dekes For Days]

Did Robertson not get any opportunity with this organization?

Some but not much.

 

[meefer]

Until you see Robertson play with a competent C, which includes being defensively capable, I think it's hard to evaluate the player.

 

[Budz]

Until you see Robertson play with a competent C, which includes being defensively capable, I think it's hard to evaluate the player.

Strongly disagree.

I think it’s pretty easy.

 

[Evilhomer]

Neither really should be in the lineup come game 1 if the playoffs

Neither will be.

 

[meefer]

Strongly disagree.

I think it’s pretty easy.

Robertson's two main C options this year have been Domi and Holmberg. While Domi offers some of the distributing skills Robertson should be taking advantage of, his defensive weaknesses put two such players on the same line, leading to less than optimum results. I don't mind Domi working on Matthews wing, but as a C his play isn't sufficient to bring the line to life. Robertson's production has suffered because Tie can't provide a shooting option, and because of his weak D play, they spend far too much time in their own zone. I don't know if Robertson can stick with the team, but I think his skill set demands a more capable C (for that matter the team deserves a better 3C) than Domi. Holmberg...works hard, but hasn't the offensive skills to really help either of his wingers, but he is good at drawing penalties.

Neither will be.

Robertson may well be gone. I think it is going to be asking a lot to move Domi, his 3.75M x 3 more years contract ain't going to be an easy move. Perhaps you're suggesting that he'll be a healthy scratch? Again, difficult to envision, is Minten the replacement, an acquired 3C?

 

[Budz]

It doesn’t matter who his Centre is when he can’t stay on his skates and never wins puck battles.

Nice kid. Not heavy enough. End of story.

 

[Evilhomer]

Robertson may well be gone. I think it is going to be asking a lot to move Domi, his 3.75M x 3 more years contract ain't going to be an easy move. Perhaps you're suggesting that he'll be a healthy scratch? Again, difficult to envision, is Minten the replacement, an acquired 3C?

I was talking about Robertson and Reaves. Domi will absolutely be in the lineup in the playoffs.Treliving loves him. He isn't going anywhere.

 

[Suntouchable13]

I was talking about Robertson and Reaves. Domi will absolutely be in the lineup in the playoffs.Treliving loves him. He isn't going anywhere.

Yes, Tre loves his forwards who provide you nothing. WE have so many of them. Tre should be questioned heavily if this team fails to come out of the 1st or 2nd round this year. Even though Dubas left him with nothing.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Until you see Robertson play with a competent C, which includes being defensively capable, I think it's hard to evaluate the player.

same goes for reaves

 

[arso40]

He is massively better.

That's 7 games you've cherry picked. He's played 47. He averages 12 minutes.

Tons of NHL players would do less with the opportunity Robertson has gotten, and Reaves isn't even at NHL player quality.

We've gotten decent return on investment. Much better than Reaves, that's for sure.

I'm actually agreeing with you does that mean I'm wrong hahahahaha

 

[keonsbitterness]

same goes for reaves

Reaves is 38. The evaluation on him is complete.

 

[ULF_55]

I think people invest more into the Steve Sullivan/Martin St. Louis cautionary tale more than actually talk about the pros and cons to Robertson's game. He's great hustle and desire, good practice skills with the puck and an unusually devastating shot. But he's small, weak as hell on one on one battles, doesn't have high IQ to read a play other than to go full throttle 110%, and can't figure out how to get open to use his shot.

No one held him back so he couldn't take the McMann progression when this team has zero secondary scoring. The fact that he's stuck in 12th/13th forward with Reaves just says a lot about how his game isn't well suited to do all that much.

If the team has done any decent scouting and drafting of the past decade he should be easy to replace.

Perhaps if he had been able to stay healthy things may have been different.

Nicholas Robertson Stats And News

Get all the latest stats, news, videos, and more on Nicholas Robertson.

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He is pacing much lower this year than last.

A new coach and worse results with more ice time.

It isn't working in Toronto let him go before you tank his value. Unless it is already too late for that?

 

[Menzinger]

Neither will be.

I think Reaves may.

 

[Evilhomer]

Nicholas Robertson Stats And News

Get all the latest stats, news, videos, and more on Nicholas Robertson.

www.nhl.com

He is pacing much lower this year than last.

A new coach and worse results with more ice time.

It isn't working in Toronto let him go before you tank his value. Unless it is already too late for that?

I can't imagine Robertson has any value. There are hundreds of guys identical to him in the NHL and AHL. He is either a small part of a trade or waiver wire material.

 

[67Leafs67]

This is your most shocking post to date.

If we were to multiply things by 10,000, Robertson would be greater than Wayne Gretzky.

I get your point, but you are emotional here. Drunken math doesn't seem like you at all.

Give Reaves 14 min. a night, 13 more games, better line mates, and a shot at PP2. He could match Robertson's production. I think almost any NHLer could.

First of all, Nick Robertson doesn't play fourteen minutes per night, he averages just 12:05/game, which ranks 12th among TOR forwards. He's also not a consistent fixture on PP2 (just 0:58/game), and is definitely not dependent on the man advantage for his production (he has just 1 point there this season).

Over the last three seasons, Nick Robertson ranks 43rd in the NHL with 1.02 goals per sixty minutes of 5v5 ice-time, out of 709 players with at least 750+ minutes of 5v5 ice-time. Ryan Reaves ranks 421st, with just 0.43 goals per sixty minutes of ice-time. If we do just this season, Robertson ranks 114th, with 0.82 G/60, and Reaves ranks tied for last (out 624 players with 250+ minutes at 5v5), with 0.00 G/60.

Yes, Reaves plays less than Robertson (~253 minutes vs ~510 minutes at 5v5), but if you pro-rate Reaves' scoring rate of the last two years (we'll use two years, since he hasn't scored yet this year), he'd have just ~3 goals and ~6 points (Robertson has 7 goals and 11 points). Conversely, if Robertson had played as little as Reaves, he'd still have ~5 goals and ~8 points (Reaves has 0 goals and 2 points).

In short, despite playing very little, and not with the highest quality linemates, Robertson is one of the league's most efficient goal-scorers. Even this season, he's scored at a better rate at 5v5 than all but four players on the Leafs (Knies, Nylander, Matthews, and McMann), and last season trailed only Auston Matthews. In contrast, Reaves is one of the worst offensive players in the NHL, and he's poor enough defensively that whenever Berube plays him on the fourth line, once the game gets close and he needs to defend, he sits Reaves and starts double shifting other RWs.

So no, Reaves would not come anywhere near to matching Robertson's production if their roles were reversed, and neither would a good deal of NHL players.

I'm not saying Robertson is some elite talent. He's got a lot of warts in his game, and I'm not even sure he belongs in the Leafs' playoff lineup. But for a lineup that can't get any scoring outside its top-six forwards, sitting Robertson for a guy with zero goals this season would be stupid. Reaves is a sub-NHL talent at this point in his career, and even Berube clearly has little use for him.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

First of all, Nick Robertson doesn't play fourteen minutes per night, he averages just 12:05/game, which ranks 12th among TOR forwards. He's also not a consistent fixture on PP2 (just 0:58/game), and is definitely not dependent on the man advantage for his production (he has just 1 point there this season).

Over the last three seasons, Nick Robertson ranks 43rd in the NHL with 1.02 goals per sixty minutes of 5v5 ice-time, out of 709 players with at least 750+ minutes of 5v5 ice-time. Ryan Reaves ranks 421st, with just 0.43 goals per sixty minutes of ice-time. If we do just this season, Robertson ranks 114th, with 0.82 G/60, and Reaves ranks tied for last (out 624 players with 250+ minutes at 5v5), with 0.00 G/60.

Yes, Reaves plays less than Robertson (~253 minutes vs ~510 minutes at 5v5), but if you pro-rate Reaves' scoring rate of the last two years (we'll use two years, since he hasn't scored yet this year), he'd have just ~3 goals and ~6 points (Robertson has 7 goals and 11 points). Conversely, if Robertson had played as little as Reaves, he'd still have ~5 goals and ~8 points (Reaves has 0 goals and 2 points).

In short, despite playing very little, and not with the highest quality linemates, Robertson is one of the league's most efficient goal-scorers. Even this season, he's scored at a better rate at 5v5 than all but four players on the Leafs (Knies, Nylander, Matthews, and McMann), and last season trailed only Auston Matthews. In contrast, Reaves is one of the worst offensive players in the NHL, and he's poor enough defensively that whenever Berube plays him on the fourth line, once the game gets close and he needs to defend, he sits Reaves and starts double shifting other RWs.

So no, Reaves would not come anywhere near to matching Robertson's production if their roles were reversed, and neither would a good deal of NHL players.

I'm not saying Robertson is some elite talent. He's got a lot of warts in his game, and I'm not even sure he belongs in the Leafs' playoff lineup. But for a lineup that can't get any scoring outside its top-six forwards, sitting Robertson for a guy with zero goals this season would be stupid. Reaves is a sub-NHL talent at this point in his career, and even Berube clearly has little use for him.

I think you are.

 

[banks]

I'm still a Robertson fan. I think he can make it work in the NHL. If he has to be liquidated at the deadline for a roster improvement, then so be it. But I still feel he can contribute.

For a team with terrible scoring number from the bottom 6, I don't think Robertson gets enough opportunity. More ice time and better linemates would be nice to see. And I think he should be getting more PP usage than Domi or Patches.

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

Reaves in a fight, Robertson in a race, Neither in the cup finals.