League News: NHL Talk - (News n' Scores n' Stuff) - COVID Post-Season Edition

[Corby78]

It amazes me that DSP didn't parlay his 2018 postseason into a deal like this one.

So thankful we didn't

 

[searle]

 

[g00n]

fwiw re: Price and VV

Perhaps we should invest more at the goalie position, eh?

 

[tenken00]

fwiw re: Price and VV

View attachment 454027

Perhaps we should invest more at the goalie position, eh?

We literally can't with our cap space

 

[Eirikrautha]

fwiw re: Price and VV

View attachment 454027

Perhaps we should invest more at the goalie position, eh?

Why? There's no correlation between that graph and team success. The Stars spent as much as the Lightning. Detroit, NJ, and NYR spent more than CO. Some teams overspend on aging stars, some get good goaltending out of low-cost rookies. Cap allocation is probably the least important metric you could pick when evaluating goalies (next to maybe eye color)...

 

[g00n]

Why? There's no correlation between that graph and team success. The Stars spent as much as the Lightning. Detroit, NJ, and NYR spent more than CO. Some teams overspend on aging stars, some get good goaltending out of low-cost rookies. Cap allocation is probably the least important metric you could pick when evaluating goalies (next to maybe eye color)...

Weren't 3 of the top 4 spenders on the left side of the chart in the Conference Finals?

 

[Langway]

Perhaps we should invest more at the goalie position, eh?

Spending =/ investing. Pay for The Guy if and when you get him but don't pay just to pay.

 

[g00n]

Spending =/ investing. Pay for The Guy if and when you get him but don't pay just to pay.

Yeah I get it but ffs we're dead last and our goaltending woes were big contributors to bowing out in 5 games vs BOS.

Not sure we want to roll the dice like that too much with Ovie's last years in DC.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

NHL network is showing a replay of Ovechkin‘s first game. I was there live so I actually never heard Joe b and locker call it

 

[Eirikrautha]

Watching the NHL network right now. It's the first game for some Caps rookie... Oven-chicken or something? Gotta say, the kid looks like he might be decent...

Edit: Ninja'd. Typed it up and then got sidetracked... Oh well.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Watching the NHL network right now. It's the first game for some Caps rookie... Oven-chicken or something? Gotta say, the kid looks like he might be decent...

Edit: Ninja'd. Typed it up and then got sidetracked... Oh well.

watching this D is bringing back many bad memories lol….

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

Weren't 3 of the top 4 spenders on the left side of the chart in the Conference Finals?

Now do the 10 teams after those four

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

LOL when did putting your hockey socks over the back of your skates stop being a thing??

 

[Corby78]

LOL when did putting your hockey socks over the back of your skates stop being a thing??

I feel soooo old every time I'm the only guy with his skate tongue on the outside of his shin guard.

 

[g00n]

Now do the 10 teams after those four

Yeah I get it, but there was an argument made via analytics that goaltending is somehow random or luck in the playoffs, therefore more or less it doesn't matter who's in net.

But here we see teams with more spent on goaltenders (by cap hit) in the league advancing the furthest. In almost every case the team with the bigger G investment advanced (NYI getting by Boston is an exception but only barely by ~10M vs 9M). Can you imagine if advanced stats found a correlation that strong for something on the offensive side of the ledger?

I was willing to roll with the young guys as a tandem but VV's injury and Sammy's issues blew that up. They were 17th and 23rd out of 24 in sav% in the playoffs (granted, VV had little time to accumulate any stats).


Anderson was far and away our best goaltender in the playoffs. This is a problem.

 

[txpd]

Yeah I get it, but there was an argument made via analytics that goaltending is somehow random or luck in the playoffs, therefore more or less it doesn't matter who's in net.

But here we see teams with more spent on goaltenders (by cap hit) in the league advancing the furthest. In almost every case the team with the bigger G investment advanced (NYI getting by Boston is an exception but only barely by ~10M vs 9M). Can you imagine if advanced stats found a correlation that strong for something on the offensive side of the ledger?

I was willing to roll with the young guys as a tandem but VV's injury and Sammy's issues blew that up. They were 17th and 23rd out of 24 in sav% in the playoffs (granted, VV had little time to accumulate any stats).


Anderson was far and away our best goaltender in the playoffs. This is a problem.

VV's season stats. Keep in mind that he played I think 17 games in a row right at the start of the season. Right when the team was trying to learn Laviolette's game totally on the fly. Their defense was awful those first games and the kid under the circumstances was probably holding on for dear life. His numbers in the 2nd half were pretty strong and he proved to me reliable and mentally strong. As opposed to the other guy

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

Yeah I get it, but there was an argument made via analytics that goaltending is somehow random or luck in the playoffs, therefore more or less it doesn't matter who's in net.

But here we see teams with more spent on goaltenders (by cap hit) in the league advancing the furthest. In almost every case the team with the bigger G investment advanced (NYI getting by Boston is an exception but only barely by ~10M vs 9M). Can you imagine if advanced stats found a correlation that strong for something on the offensive side of the ledger?

I was willing to roll with the young guys as a tandem but VV's injury and Sammy's issues blew that up. They were 17th and 23rd out of 24 in sav% in the playoffs (granted, VV had little time to accumulate any stats).


Anderson was far and away our best goaltender in the playoffs. This is a problem.

Investing in goaltending only makes sense if you have a goaltender to invest in, though. Looking back at Stanley Cup winners from the last decade, none of Vasi, Binnington, Murray/Fleury, Holtby, Crawford, Quick, or Thomas were big ticket free agents. All were drafted by their teams or entered into the league with their teams. None were brought in after proving themselves elsewhere.

The list of teams who won Cups with high cap hits for goalies who weren’t paid in large part due to their prior (and cheap, for the most part) accomplishments is pretty much nonexistent since the days of Hasek and Roy in the early 2000s. The teams who win may have high cap hits for goalies but those cap hits are the result of those goalies achieving success before having high cap hits.

As for the graph, Florida is high in that graph this year but it was Driedger that carried the team and Bob’s cap hit hindered them but that context is lost in the chart. Vancouver, Dallas, and Ottawa are all paying for goalies who won elsewhere.

All in all, I don’t think it’s fair to say if you pay a lot for goaltenders you’re going to get better performance. You need your own guy to prove he’s worth the dollars.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I think it’s fair to say if you’re not well invested financially in your goalie position, you’re running with inexperience and/or reaching to fill the positions with limited/more expensive options….

unless of course you’re just extremely lucky to have a tandem of great/young/affordable guys.

That’s not us. We’re in the reaching/limited options group.

 

[txpd]

I think it’s fair to say if you’re not well invested financially in your goalie position, you’re running with inexperience and/or reaching to fill the positions with limited/more expensive options….

unless of course you’re just extremely lucky to have a tandem of great/young/affordable guys.

That’s not us. We’re in the reaching/limited options group.

The problem with shorting goaltending is that you are using 2nd and 3rd tier players to lead your team on the ice. Holtby belonged in a group with Ov and Oshie and Carlson. The idea of going with Brett Connolly or Daniel Sprong as your leaders scares me. If the Caps show up to be a legit team this season, do you really trust that to Samsonov and a low dollar veteran back up goalie?

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

The problem with shorting goaltending is that you are using 2nd and 3rd tier players to lead your team on the ice. Holtby belonged in a group with Ov and Oshie and Carlson. The idea of going with Brett Connolly or Daniel Sprong as your leaders scares me. If the Caps show up to be a legit team this season, do you really trust that to Samsonov and a low dollar veteran back up goalie?

How can you (if you're GMBM) after the year they just had?

 

[txpd]

How can you (if you're GMBM) after the year they just had?

I agree. I think losing Vanecek could be curtains. Sammy certainly has his support here but I dont trust him.

 

[Calicaps]

How can you (if you're GMBM) after the year they just had?

I agree. I think losing Vanecek could be curtains. Sammy certainly has his support here but I dont trust him.

I disagree in that I think you have to give Sammy one more chance. He's a young guy. Some of the stupid was his own, but I think Kuzy also led him astray. That's part of why Kuzy is in such deep shit. He didn't just f*** himself and his team, he was a shitty influence on a key young player. Sammy will for sure be held accountable for himself, but he's too young to give up on. You get a proper vet backup and you give him this last chance to prove himself. What choice do they have really?

 

[Langway]

It's one thing to have doubt and another going about planning to restructure the roster to account for a $3M+ goaltender.

 

[txpd]

I disagree in that I think you have to give Sammy one more chance. He's a young guy. Some of the stupid was his own, but I think Kuzy also led him astray. That's part of why Kuzy is in such deep shit. He didn't just f*** himself and his team, he was a shitty influence on a key young player. Sammy will for sure be held accountable for himself, but he's too young to give up on. You get a proper vet backup and you give him this last chance to prove himself. What choice do they have really?

I didnt suggest getting rid of Sammy. I am saying I don't trust him. I am saying that there is nothing in the record to suggest that he can handle the work load and the responsibility of being the only legit goaltending option for a team that expect to contend. He is not a good only option to have and if they lose Vanecek, that is exactly where they will be

 

[Calicaps]

I didnt suggest getting rid of Sammy. I am saying I don't trust him. I am saying that there is nothing in the record to suggest that he can handle the work load and the responsibility of being the only legit goaltending option for a team that expect to contend. He is not a good only option to have and if they lose Vanecek, that is exactly where they will be

I didn't think you were saying get rid of him. I'm saying that while he hasn't proven anything good, he still should be given this last chance to handle the workload, be a pro, and not f*** up. But I guess we'll see... Of course, it does also depend who they can afford to back him up.