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League News: NHL Talk - (News n' Scores n' Stuff) | 2024-25 Summer Edition

People don’t always like to hear it but just because someone is doing the right thing, doesn’t mean the legal system is on their side.

And just because someone is doing the wrong thing, that doesn’t mean the people affected by it will have legal recourse. So many minor details or technicalities can let someone off the hook .. that’s partly why good criminal defense attorneys make a shitload of money.
 
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On another topic — the standing in the Eastern Conference are pretty telling. It’s almost exactly the same teams as last year (swapping Isles out, Devils in), were season to end now.

I wouldn’t be shocked if this 8 right now was THE 8 at seasons end, for the Eastern side of things (Tampa beating out Philly, obv, with their games in hand).
 
Ridley Simon said:
This isn’t wrong. It may not apply to this situation, but we are talking about Paul Bissonette, who is KNOWN for trying to create drama (mostly w words now, but he was a pugilistic player, with an edge). He’s also got a MASSIVE ego, and probably felt like Rambo taking on a band of thugs.

Put it this way — “Bizz” isn’t exactly known for being altruistic. I’m sure he cares for the establishment he defended, I truly do. But I also am certain he instigated things to some degree. That’s just who he is, and has always been.

He is an instigator.
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Oh I agree with you and have had similar thoughts. I don't really like Bissonette - he's full of himself and obnoxious.

But I have no problem with him getting into a fight with a bunch of assholes even if he sells it as doing the right thing by people he knows who run the restaurant. And if those guys are genuine Irish Travellers, rest assured they ARE assholes.
 
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Nogatco Rd said:
People don’t always like to hear it but just because someone is doing the right thing, doesn’t mean the legal system is on their side.

And just because someone is doing the wrong thing, that doesn’t mean the people affected by it will have legal recourse. So many minor details or technicalities can let someone off the hook .. that’s partly why good criminal defense attorneys make a shitload of money.
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I got you, man. You’re just offering an objective analysis of the legal issues at play, given the facts we know. No need for people to overact and claim you’re advocating for the Irish guys or their behavior.

In regards to the criminal charges the Irish guys end up facing, the stand your ground laws might not quite work. To invoke those protections, you can’t be engaged in any unlawful acts yourself. So, before Biz even got to them, it sounds like they were already engaged in disorderly conduct and were assaulting the staff. Remember, assault doesn’t necessarily require actual physical contact - just reasonable fear of physical injury. So, a little skeptical they’d be able to “stand their ground” in that situation.

In terms of Biz individually bringing a civil suit, I agree with you that it might get dicey since he challenged them to a fight outside. Not going to pretend to know how that would shake out in terms of liability and damages.
 
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RedRocking said:
In regards to the criminal charges the Irish guys end up facing, the stand your ground laws might not quite work. To invoke those protections, you can’t be engaged in any unlawful acts yourself. So, before Biz even got to them, it sounds like they were already engaged in disorderly conduct and were assaulting the staff.
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Yup, it would depend on exactly who was doing what. I.e., whether or not the person whose arm he grabbed was one of the individuals who had assaulted the waitstaff. Although, if they had all been asked to leave and were refusing, they'd be engaged in the "unlawful act" of trespassing.

Interesting sidenote: Scottsdale is in Maricopa County, which until recently was the home of the infamous Sheriff Joe Arpaio, who was notorious for his... "unorthodox" approach to criminal justice. Not sure if any of his policies are still in place though.
 
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Ridley Simon said:
On another topic — the standing in the Eastern Conference are pretty telling. It’s almost exactly the same teams as last year (swapping Isles out, Devils in), were season to end now.

I wouldn’t be shocked if this 8 right now was THE 8 at seasons end, for the Eastern side of things (Tampa beating out Philly, obv, with their games in hand).
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Gonna be interesting to see what happens with NYR.. moneypuck had them down to a 35% chance to make the playoffs
 
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It’s interesting how hard it seems for most of the national hockey media (such as it is) to accept the possibility that maybe the Rangers just aren’t very good.

I get that there’s an inclination to want the Rangers to succeed b/c NY success = more attention to hockey. But the Rangers problems (like the Pens) have been bubbling up for years (their D corp outside of Fox is meh, their forwards don’t play good D, and Shesty has been covering up their deficiencies) and yet the hockey scribes at the beginning of this year basically anointed them as, at a minimum, Eastern Conference finalists (or better) this year.

The contrast between how the hockey media groupthink was to exacerbate and catastrophize the Caps perceived flaws while hand-waving away those of the Rangers and Pens (and this year’s Bruins) has been a fascinating case study in how f***ing wrong people can be about what they’re supposed to know without any consequence.

It’s sports - so it’s harmless. But it is interesting
 
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Ridley Simon said:
It’s trading for a 25yr old power forward/leader. Other than his brother, how many power forwards are better? And that cost controlled?

Honest question?
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I think Tkachuk is a good player but I don't rate him in the tier where you sell the farm for him. I have him in the ~50th best forward in the league tier. Very good, but not really a guy who can put a team on his back. Kind of in the Dylan Strome tier.

I think Cristall is their best prospect, even over Leonard. Cristall has answered pretty much every question that evaluators had of him and has shown that he's been the engine in Kelowna instead of Iginla. I think Cristall's ceiling is basically unlimited and giving him up would require someone in a higher tier than Tkachuk coming back in return. And this speaks nothing of the first round pick and McMichael also going to Ottawa in this hypothetical
 
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twabby said:
I think Tkachuk is a good player but I don't rate him in the tier where you sell the farm for him. I have him in the ~50th best forward in the league tier. Very good, but not really a guy who can put a team on his back. Kind of in the Dylan Strome tier.

I think Cristall is their best prospect, even over Leonard. Cristall has answered pretty much every question that evaluators had of him and has shown that he's been the engine in Kelowna instead of Iginla. I think Cristall's ceiling is basically unlimited and giving him up would require someone in a higher tier than Tkachuk coming back in return. And this speaks nothing of the first round pick and McMichael also going to Ottawa in this hypothetical
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Ok ok enough of drinking your own Cristall koolaid. “Best over Leonard”…..hahahahahah…”unlimited ceiling”…..we can only hope.
 
CapitalsCupReality said:
Ok ok enough of drinking your own Cristall koolaid. “Best over Leonard”…..hahahahahah…”unlimited ceiling”…..we can only hope.
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From an NHLe perspective Cristall rates slightly higher than Leonard now. Not enough to definitively separate them with a lot of confidence, but enough for me to rate Cristall higher for the time being. Certainly enough for me to consider them in the same tier of prospect at the very least.

And I doubt most would want to do Leonard + McMichael + 1st for Brady Tkachuk.
 
twabby said:
From an NHLe perspective Cristall rates slightly higher than Leonard now. Not enough to definitively separate them with a lot of confidence, but enough for me to rate Cristall higher for the time being. Certainly enough for me to consider them in the same tier of prospect at the very least.

And I doubt most would want to do Leonard + McMichael + 1st for Brady Tkachuk.
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Nope not both CMM and Leonard…
 
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Ridley Simon said:
On another topic — the standing in the Eastern Conference are pretty telling. It’s almost exactly the same teams as last year (swapping Isles out, Devils in), were season to end now.

I wouldn’t be shocked if this 8 right now was THE 8 at seasons end, for the Eastern side of things (Tampa beating out Philly, obv, with their games in hand).
Click to expand...
Usually the teams that are in a playoff position at this time of year are the ones who make it. There’s always the chance that a random team makes a run but the field is generally set unless there’s some epic collapses
 
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I think CBJ is a good contender to sneak in.

Very underrated for obvious reasons but they are playing well lately.
 
re: B Tkachuk

We have a pretty good team that if everything works out, we're going to have trouble keeping together due to cap in the coming years. Strome/Protas/CMM are extremely underpaid right now relative to performance.

Trading young cost controlled assets for B Tkachuk, as good as he is, hastens the cap crunch since he costs so much more.

CMM at 2.1m for this year and next year is better for roster building than the 8.5m B Tkachuk commands now and the 10M+ he will command in the future.

I would trade CMM for an elite game breaking forward. B Tkachuk's only ever hit 80 points in a league where scoring 80 points is no longer as rare as it used to be. I'd do it for Matthew probably.
 
Fabricated cap “fears” IMO.

Strome and Pro are cost controlled at a bargain for the near future.

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]2018-19[/TD]
[TD]Ottawa Senators[/TD]
[TD]NHL[/TD]
[TD]71[/TD]
[TD]22[/TD]
[TD]23[/TD]
[TD]45[/TD]
[TD]75[/TD]
[TD]-10[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2019-20[/TD]
[TD]Ottawa Senators[/TD]
[TD]NHL[/TD]
[TD]71[/TD]
[TD]21[/TD]
[TD]23[/TD]
[TD]44[/TD]
[TD]106[/TD]
[TD]-14[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2020-21[/TD]
[TD]Ottawa Senators[/TD]
[TD]NHL[/TD]
[TD]56[/TD]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]36[/TD]
[TD]69[/TD]
[TD]-17[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2021-22[/TD]
[TD]Ottawa Senators[/TD]
[TD]NHL[/TD]
[TD]79[/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]37[/TD]
[TD]67[/TD]
[TD]117[/TD]
[TD]-7[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2022-23[/TD]
[TD]Ottawa Senators[/TD]
[TD]NHL[/TD]
[TD]82[/TD]
[TD]35[/TD]
[TD]48[/TD]
[TD]83[/TD]
[TD]126[/TD]
[TD]-10[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2023-24[/TD]
[TD]Ottawa Senators[/TD]
[TD]NHL[/TD]
[TD]81[/TD]
[TD]37[/TD]
[TD]37[/TD]
[TD]74[/TD]
[TD]134[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2024-25[/TD]
[TD]Ottawa Senators[/TD]
[TD]NHL[/TD]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]28[/TD]
[TD]50[/TD]
[TD]-1[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Dude just turned 25, plays for a shite franchise….Now imagine him in a great spot with a great franchise here….

Durable, young, gritty, on pace for a career year…..
 
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Brady Tkachuk is a pipe dream.

These types are unicorns. We already have Wilson. Perhaps potentially another in Leonard. If there is a bidding war we'll quickly get outbid by a team that has zero of these and nobody on the pipeline either. One of those teams are bound to overpay to get their hands on a player like that.
 
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Just my two cents: realistically I'd be ready to part with any player on the roster outside Strome and Chychrun (Ovechkin and Carlson are an obvious non-starter both for the Caps and the opposite side) and any prospect other than Leonard to get Tkachuk on board. Throw in a 1st or two if that's the deal breaker.

To the people talking about hard-passing on including Lapierre in that deal...give your head a shake man, imagine passing on the opportunity to get a borderline 100-pt player because of your obsession with a 22 year old fringe guy..
 
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CapitalsCupReality said:
Fabricated cap “fears” IMO.

Strome and Pro are cost controlled at a bargain for the near future.

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]2018-19[/TD]
[TD]Ottawa Senators[/TD]
[TD]NHL[/TD]
[TD]71[/TD]
[TD]22[/TD]
[TD]23[/TD]
[TD]45[/TD]
[TD]75[/TD]
[TD]-10[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2019-20[/TD]
[TD]Ottawa Senators[/TD]
[TD]NHL[/TD]
[TD]71[/TD]
[TD]21[/TD]
[TD]23[/TD]
[TD]44[/TD]
[TD]106[/TD]
[TD]-14[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2020-21[/TD]
[TD]Ottawa Senators[/TD]
[TD]NHL[/TD]
[TD]56[/TD]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]36[/TD]
[TD]69[/TD]
[TD]-17[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2021-22[/TD]
[TD]Ottawa Senators[/TD]
[TD]NHL[/TD]
[TD]79[/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[TD]37[/TD]
[TD]67[/TD]
[TD]117[/TD]
[TD]-7[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2022-23[/TD]
[TD]Ottawa Senators[/TD]
[TD]NHL[/TD]
[TD]82[/TD]
[TD]35[/TD]
[TD]48[/TD]
[TD]83[/TD]
[TD]126[/TD]
[TD]-10[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2023-24[/TD]
[TD]Ottawa Senators[/TD]
[TD]NHL[/TD]
[TD]81[/TD]
[TD]37[/TD]
[TD]37[/TD]
[TD]74[/TD]
[TD]134[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[TD]--[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2024-25[/TD]
[TD]Ottawa Senators[/TD]
[TD]NHL[/TD]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]28[/TD]
[TD]50[/TD]
[TD]-1[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Dude just turned 25, plays for a shite franchise….Now imagine him in a great spot with a great franchise here….

Durable, young, gritty, on pace for a career year…..
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You underestimate how good his supporting offensive cast has been. Stutzle, Giroux, Batherson, Debrincat, Chabot.
Melkor said:
Just my two cents: realistically I'd be ready to part with any player on the roster outside Strome and Chychrun (Ovechkin and Carlson are an obvious non-starter both for the Caps and the opposite side) and any prospect other than Leonard to get Tkachuk on board. Throw in a 1st or two if that's the deal breaker.

To the people talking about hard-passing on including Lapierre in that deal...give your head a shake man, imagine passing on the opportunity to get a borderline 100-pt player because of your obsession with a 22 year old fringe guy..
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Don't get me wrong, I really like the player. But Tkachuk hasn't come close to sniffing 100 points.

FWIW, I'd move Lapierre in a lot of potential trades, including one for Tkachuk. I think he's the odd man out with this year's breakouts.
 
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Ridley Simon said:
This isn’t wrong. It may not apply to this situation, but we are talking about Paul Bissonette, who is KNOWN for trying to create drama (mostly w words now, but he was a pugilistic player, with an edge). He’s also got a MASSIVE ego, and probably felt like Rambo taking on a band of thugs.

Put it this way — “Bizz” isn’t exactly known for being altruistic. I’m sure he cares for the establishment he defended, I truly do. But I also am certain he instigated things to some degree. That’s just who he is, and has always been.

He is an instigator.
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Did you see the video from the golf course? These guys are legit violent thugs. I think I read he said one of them put hands on the manager.

I don't really care about his reputation. Who is going to come to the aid of someone being bullied and assaulted by drunken Irish mobsters? A priest? Ghandi?

If not the fighters then who?

f*** the lawyers. Stand up for people.

edit: yeah I'm way behind on this thread, no singling you out lol
 
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kicksavedave said:
Yeah I just threw up in my mouth a little bit. Hardest of no's. Possibly dead last on the list of any player I'd want here. Total douchenozzle.
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I think I would stop watching the Caps if they got Marchand.

Jagr, Cooke, Brashear....none of those guys put me off the Caps.

Marchand is a bridge too far.
 
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