League News: NHL Talk - (News n' Scores n' Stuff) - 2022-23 season, Vol. 4, Off-season Edition

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g00n

Retired Global Mod
Nov 22, 2007
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I’m going to take a blowtorch to this thread in the morning.

Please don't. It's not a crime scene and several people are having a good conversation. Every good discussion about something other than Lavi sucking or whatever doesn't need to get nuked because one person doesn't like the topic.

The league is trying to stand up and keep this from being swept under the rug, we should too.
 

AlexModvechkin8

At least there was 2018.
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Feb 18, 2012
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Holy hell that is awful news. Fanatics-brand stuff is complete trash and pretty much unwearable after a few washes. The pictures on their website and the quality of stuff you actually receive could not be be any more different — the stuff on their website looks like a premium product and the stuff you get is worse than what you get when you go to one of those underground shops in NYC where they sell hilariously bad and cheap knockoffs. I filter out anything made by Fanatics on their website at this point.

Adidas did a great job and they go from that to Fanatics? Big oof.
 

CapitalsCupReality

It’s Go Time!!
Feb 27, 2002
66,415
21,422
I think the problem here is that if the doctrine referred to as the moral code for not wearing a Pride jersey is only selectively followed, it becomes arbitrary.

And since Reimer plays on Sabbat, eats meat, supports gambling through his workwear, perhaps drinks, certainly lies, and im sure does a lot of things that are prohibited in the doctrine referred to it would be hard to make a case stating that he is excercising his right to practice his religion which, according to the doctrine referred to, he very much isn't. He commits sins on a daily basis. He just chooses to follow the parts he likes and ignores the parts he doesn't, thus making it a personal opinion and not in fact a religious practice.

Nobody gets to tell another how to practice their religion. It’s a freedom everyone is guaranteed to a certain extent, like it or not.
 

bacchist

lumpy, lumpy head
Feb 7, 2013
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Nobody gets to tell another how to practice their religion. It’s a freedom everyone is guaranteed to a certain extent, like it or not.
Yeah, but in many cases religion is just used after the fact to justify bigotry. It's really unlikely that people are growing up in a vacuum without any preconceived ideas about homosexuality and then forming an opinion after careful consideration of their religious teachings. It's just super convenient that their god shares whatever prejudices they developed independently.
 

g00n

Retired Global Mod
Nov 22, 2007
31,278
15,888
Nobody gets to tell another how to practice their religion. It’s a freedom everyone is guaranteed to a certain extent, like it or not.

There is not absolute freedom to do whatever you want and then use religion as the excuse. The belief has to be 'sincerely held' for moral or ethical reasons.

Selective interpretation of scriptures is not uncommon and therefore presents a problem of how to differentiate the arbitrary and absurd from the deeply held conviction.

JR may be legally protected if he claims sincere belief based on religious or moral grounds, but that doesn't mean he's right or that we should just give him a pass. Sincerely held beliefs can be shitty, including "religious" ones.

As for the NHL's role here it seems like their hands are tied, but just like a lot of the "player code" discipline in hockey I hope the players themselves find a way to take care of these problems. Within the law, of course.
 

YippieKaey

How you gonna do hockey like that?
Apr 2, 2012
3,022
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Stockholm Sweden
Nobody gets to tell another how to practice their religion. It’s a freedom everyone is guaranteed to a certain extent, like it or not.

You are contradicting the entire idea behind religion, which stems from doctrines written down by priests et al telling others how to practice religion. The old testament of the Bible tells Reimer to think that gay people are immoral. The old testament of Bible also tells Reimer that working on Sundays is punishable by death

If he can choose to ignore one, he can not claim he is compelled to follow the other.
 

bacchist

lumpy, lumpy head
Feb 7, 2013
1,507
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You are contradicting the entire idea behind religion, which stems from doctrines written down by priests et al telling others how to practice religion. The old testament of the Bible tells Reimer to think that gay people are immoral. The old testament of Bible also tells Reimer that working on Sundays is punishable by death

If he can choose to ignore one, he can not claim he is compelled to follow the other.
This is highly debatable, as there was nothing like the concept of "gay people" until modern times. It's more accurate to say that Reimer thinks gay people are immoral and interprets the Bible through that lens.
 
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YippieKaey

How you gonna do hockey like that?
Apr 2, 2012
3,022
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Stockholm Sweden
This is highly debatable, as there was nothing like the concept of "gay people" until modern times. It's more accurate to say that Reimer thinks gay people are immoral and interprets the Bible through that lens.

The Bible says: "Thou shalt not lie with a man as thou lie with a woman". And then there's the whole Sodom thing etc. And gay people have been around forever, even amongst other mammals.
 

CapitalsCupReality

It’s Go Time!!
Feb 27, 2002
66,415
21,422
You are contradicting the entire idea behind religion, which stems from doctrines written down by priests et al telling others how to practice religion. The old testament of the Bible tells Reimer to think that gay people are immoral. The old testament of Bible also tells Reimer that working on Sundays is punishable by death

If he can choose to ignore one, he can not claim he is compelled to follow the other.
I’m saying religion is an individual thing. You are not his Priest, so unless you are…..your reasoning fails. Not all religious people are extreme like you’re saying they MUST be, (or they’re phony or hypocritical or whatever you’re suggesting).

It’s a weird hardline position to take, to suggest “if you‘re religious you have to go all in, there is no other way to do it”…..reality is the opposite. There are Mormons and “Jack” Mormons for example…..Jews and Hasidic Jews (emphasizes intellectual vs spiritual), etc…..you just can’t say, nope, all in or nothing. I’m not religious btw, just my life-based observations of others who are.
 
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CapitalsCupReality

It’s Go Time!!
Feb 27, 2002
66,415
21,422
There is not absolute freedom to do whatever you want and then use religion as the excuse. The belief has to be 'sincerely held' for moral or ethical reasons.

Selective interpretation of scriptures is not uncommon and therefore presents a problem of how to differentiate the arbitrary and absurd from the deeply held conviction.

JR may be legally protected if he claims sincere belief based on religious or moral grounds, but that doesn't mean he's right or that we should just give him a pass. Sincerely held beliefs can be shitty, including "religious" ones.

As for the NHL's role here it seems like their hands are tied, but just like a lot of the "player code" discipline in hockey I hope the players themselves find a way to take care of these problems. Within the law, of course.
I didn’t suggest he’s right, but he is protected to live his own way on this one as our liberties are currently defined.
 

AlexModvechkin8

At least there was 2018.
Sponsor
Feb 18, 2012
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Please don't. It's not a crime scene and several people are having a good conversation. Every good discussion about something other than Lavi sucking or whatever doesn't need to get nuked because one person doesn't like the topic.

The league is trying to stand up and keep this from being swept under the rug, we should too.
We're on 4+ pages of discussion around the same topic. There's no room in this thread for people to discuss anything else. We're quickly moving to the point where it's time to move on.
 
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YippieKaey

How you gonna do hockey like that?
Apr 2, 2012
3,022
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Stockholm Sweden
I’m saying religion is an individual thing. You are not his Priest, so unless you are…..your reasoning fails. Not all religious people are extreme like you’re saying they MUST be, (or they’re phony or hypocritical or whatever you’re suggesting).

I know they're not. For instance the Swedish church allows homosexual priests which is great. And yet Reimer chooses to ascribe a particular opinion about homosexuality not to his own beliefs, but to his religion. He's using religion as an excuse to legitimise bigotry.

But yeah..... everyone IS allowed their opinion, i agree with that. I just have a problem with people not taking responsibility for them.
 

CapitalsCupReality

It’s Go Time!!
Feb 27, 2002
66,415
21,422
I know they're not. For instance the Swedish church allows homosexual priests which is great. And yet Reimer chooses to ascribe a particular opinion about homosexuality not to his own beliefs, but to his religion. He's using religion as an excuse to legitimise bigotry.

But yeah..... everyone IS allowed their opinion, i agree with that. I just have a problem with people not taking responsibility for them.
Religion has been used throughout time to legitimize war, and everything else horrible we can probably imagine….The NHL should be the focus of our ire, not some insignificant player. Try to force the players to ALL wear them across the league. Let’s see how that plays out.
 
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John Price

Gang Gang
Sep 19, 2008
385,318
30,682
How has Calgary not fired Sutter yet? Watched LAK clobber 'em last night - that team does not like its coach at all.
Sutter did a good job last year but this is the first i've heard of his struggles this year. Apparently he always starts off hot but teams just tune out his old school tactics
 

bacchist

lumpy, lumpy head
Feb 7, 2013
1,507
1,353
The Bible says: "Thou shalt not lie with a man as thou lie with a woman". And then there's the whole Sodom thing etc. And gay people have been around forever, even amongst other mammals.
There has been homosexual behavior forever, but the modern notion of sexual orientation and lgbt identity are quite recent developments. It was certainly not an issue in biblical times. Current scholarship suggests that the authors intended to condemn pederasty, which is the sexual exploitation of younger boys by older men.
 

max21

NBA Yungboy
Apr 17, 2019
4,783
5,370
Virginia
So as far as fanatics go, their shirts and sweatshirts are garbage but I have a quarter zip and 2 polos from them which fit really great. Adidas gear outside of the jerseys was trash, I returned all adidas shirts and sweatshirts I bought from them. Still about to buy a few Adidas jerseys, homegirl is going to kill me. I just really liked the feel and fit of the Adidas jersey
 

HeyMattyB

Sports bring out the worst in everyone.
Sponsor
Aug 20, 2010
2,394
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Philadelphia, PA
I got a bunch of Fanatics gear after the Caps won the Cup and almost every single item is trash. The t-shirts are cut weird (compared to the standard Gildan cuts) and the logos/designs crack and peel off after only a few washes (especially the customized shirts with iron-on designs/letters). Logos peeled off the pint glasses. Christmas ornaments fell apart. I'm surprised the magnets are still magnetized.

I'd rather pay for a bootleg than pay for Fanatics gear.
 
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