The bruins look really good. I hate it. Their core is still very sound together
League News: NHL Talk - (News n' Scores n' Stuff) - 2022-23 season, Vol. 4, Off-season Edition
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Phone call i overheard recently:
GMBM: "Hey so i overheard your #1D just got injured. I know a guy who scores soooo many points and would look great on a powerplay with Gaudreau and Laine. If you suck all year and trade us your first round pick he's yours"
Jarmo: "Is it that Carlson guy? I hear he's constantly on the sativa and hasn't scored a point in the playoffs since the Winter War?"
GMBM: "Pretty please?"
PlushMinus
Registered User
- Nov 18, 2021
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I'm well aware of Samsonov's current team, how he's been playing for them, and his injury status.
The more interesting discussion (if you can even be bothered having it, rather than criticising me), is WHY Samsonov has been playing better in a market that has way more pressure than Washington, and probably worse defence.
Seems highly likely that he no longer got along with his teammates, as a result of some of the bad decisions he made on and off the ice. This would explain the lack of confidence in net and allowing some really soft goals etc.
If his positioning and goaltending technique has improved in Toronto, then that might also add weight to the argument that our goaltending coach really DOES harm the development of goalies in the Caps organisation. I don't know anywhere near enough about the position to make that assessment. Others around here might have seen enough of Samsonov in Toronto to comment on whether he's playing differently.
g00n
Retired Global Mod
- Nov 22, 2007
- 31,510
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Why are you getting pissed off? I wasn't attacking you I was mocking the Maple Leafs for using a pic of Sammy in a WAS jersey instead of a TML jersey.
What the f***.
PlushMinus
Registered User
- Nov 18, 2021
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But Eichel wouldn't have that kind of "power" or influence in Vegas. Buffalo had been wooden spooners for years and he was drafted as a franchise player who was expected to turn things around.
In Vegas he is surrounded by a lot of very talented, experienced players and proven Cup winning veterans (Pietrangelo, Martinez, Kessel). I think he'd be viewed more as a top end talent with some leadership qualities, rather than THE guy expected to lead the franchise to a Cup. There is a huge difference.
Given how well Vegas have started the season, especially with what many felt was questionable goaltending, he seems to be a good fit there. Time will tell, of course. (disclaimer: I don't even like Vegas, but credit where it's due).
Oh sorry - my mistake. I genuinely didn't notice that. I think I have PTSD from spending time on the main board.
You need to decontaminate and decompress after spending time on the mains before coming back to friendly seas. It’s why they have soldiers/marines/sailors overseas stop in friendly ports before coming back stateside — to help with the adjustment back into normal society.
PlushMinus
Registered User
- Nov 18, 2021
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Yeah it's so damn toxic. Every time I go to the mains I add another person to my ignore list.
Hivemind
We're Touched
PlushMinus
Registered User
- Nov 18, 2021
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Yeah I know there are folks around here who feel that way. I just don't know enough about the position to comment. I do know the Leafs have had problems in net for years so I'm not sure it's fair to say their goaltending coach is any better than Scott Murray, though?
Hivemind
We're Touched
Leafs hired a new goalie coach (Curtis Sanford) this off-season. This is Sanford's first time as a lead goalie coach in the NHL, but he had previously worked under Ian Clark in Vancouver and did well helping develop Spencer Martin in the AHL.
Corby78
65 - 10 - 20
They accomplished a successful rebuild by identifying when it was time to let go of guys that were the old core.
PlushMinus
Registered User
- Nov 18, 2021
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You are joking, right?? The only "old core" they let go was Chara, I think? And Rask retired.
Edit: or are you going back further to when they won a Cup? Because that is 10 years ago and they've accomplished nothing since then!
The clock is ticking on Bergeron, Krejci, maybe even Marchand. Hall you can take him or leave him really. He's not that special. These guys are such an integral part of the Bruins winning and exiting the playoffs early that when they go I'm not overly impressed with who's left. Pastrnak, McAvoy, Grzldick - for sure they are top players. Debrusk decent. But after that??
(not trying to be a jerk - just my opinion and interested in what others think of the Bruins)
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Corby78
65 - 10 - 20
go back over the years and they haven’t been afraid to let go of key pieces when they seemed to be coming up to the end of their shelf life. That has allowed them to move on and restructure as they go without completely tanking for a couple years and starting all over. I wasn’t pointing to specifically the last two years or anything but just their manner of roster building.
Going back I wish we would have been more critical of the roster after the cup win. But that would have been hard and admittedly I wanted to double down while on that high too.
But i go back to what Plush said. They haven’t really done anything. And that is really the point with all team. Fans think you can just magically change a piece or two and then just win the cup. It takes years of building for it. Keeping the right chemistry together which is built over years. All star teams don’t win. Systems and chemistry and goaltending and health do. That said, I do think there is an opportunity for the Caps to get younger with all the pending FA’s and I hope we take advantage of that.
Seems like Bo Horvat might become available. He's a nice piece but not something a rebuilding team would go after.
twabby
Registered User
- Mar 9, 2010
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Man imagine if both Siegenthaler and Hamilton were Washington Capitals instead of John Carlson and the ghost of Zdeno Chara.
CapitalsCupReality
It’s Go Time!!
- Feb 27, 2002
- 67,309
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Considering Carlson has been the worst player on the team the last couple of postseasons and they haven’t managed to fill the 1/2LD hole, yeah, it might. Or it might not. They’d certainly be better than they are and have been, without question. Or maybe the coaching staff here deploys them in a way that doesn’t support their growth — who knows!
The Carlson and Hamilton thing doesn’t bug me as much since there was no way they were trading Carlson but Siegenthaler and Stephenson should be big red flags when considering how patient they should be with McMichael.
A fun game would be to make a lineup of players that are currently active but who the Caps have given away or let walk and see if any of the five players on the Capitals exceed their collective GAR.
Forsberg-Stephenson-Vrana
Siegs-Schultz
Vanny
Scratches: Sammy, Sprong, Burakovsky, Boyd, Sanford
versus
Any combination of current Caps playing their correct position. How’s it turn out?
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CapitalsCupReality
It’s Go Time!!
- Feb 27, 2002
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you know it likely wouldn’t.
I was a Siege fan…wish he would have blossomed sooner. He looked like an average 3rd pair guy here. Everyone thought that or worse at the time.
Stephenson also….looked like a career bottom-6’er. Send him to Vegas who can gift him a spot with great talent and you get something that just happened to work out. I’m not sure an NHL situation could work out any better than it did for him.
Does that prove CMM is ready lol?
“Fun”…….not my definition….but enjoy yourself!
Jags
Mildly Disturbed
Everyone? No. Revisionist history. More accurately, I think most people thought Siegs was an ideal fit for what we needed from him -- cheap 3LD with zero glaring downside to his game. And that would have been the *beginning* of his real development here, finally playing consistently with and versus NHL talent in games that count. What he could have become was a question mark. The potential was there, the trust and patience wasn't.
We were acting like "We're built to win NOW! Get us a trusted veteran for that spot!" Same exact reason we lost Schmidt for nothing. He was just starting to become what he'd be and we punted. Very familiar story here.
No. Revisionist history. More accurately, he was an ideal fit for what we needed from him -- versatile "bottom-6'er" that could play up in the lineup and kill penalties as he did with great aplomb during the Cup run.
Punting on a guy with that CV who's still cost-controlled is bananas. Reirden f***ed him and Mac gave him the parachute he deserved. If Mac had more foresight and spine, he would've traded Eller when he was actually worth something substantial and insisted his coach play the option with upside. But nah, we got Carl Freakin' Hagelin! We're good!
Maybe these "they pretty much sucked here" takes are the stories you tell yourself so you can sleep more soundly as a Caps fan whose team botched some costly moves.
Those guys had only just begun here. Bonkers to move any of them before we had a chance to see what they'd do with a legitimate NHL chance. None of them were no-brainer future success stories at the time. That much is true. But what we did in each case was like tearing up a lottery ticket before the numbers were even drawn.
CapitalsCupReality
It’s Go Time!!
- Feb 27, 2002
- 67,309
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Please….that’s BS. ” people thought Siegs was an ideal fit for what we needed from him”…….utter BS.Everyone? No. Revisionist history. More accurately, I think most people thought Siegs was an ideal fit for what we needed from him -- cheap 3LD with zero glaring downside to his game. And that would have been the *beginning* of his real development here, finally playing consistently with and versus NHL talent in games that count. What he could have become was a question mark. The potential was there, the trust and patience wasn't.
We were acting like "We're built to win NOW! Get us a trusted veteran for that spot!" Same exact reason we lost Schmidt for nothing. He was just starting to become what he'd be and we punted. Very familiar story here.
No. Revisionist history. More accurately, he was an ideal fit for what we needed from him -- versatile "bottom-6'er" that could play up in the lineup and kill penalties as he did with great aplomb during the Cup run.
Punting on a guy with that CV who's still cost-controlled is bananas. Reirden f***ed him and Mac gave him the parachute he deserved. If Mac had more foresight and spine, he would've traded Eller when he was actually worth something substantial and insisted his coach play the option with upside. But nah, we got Carl Freakin' Hagelin! We're good!
Maybe these "they pretty much sucked here" takes are the stories you tell yourself so you can sleep more soundly as a Caps fan whose team botched some costly moves.
Those guys had only just begun here. Bonkers to move any of them before we had a chance to see what they'd do with a legitimate NHL chance. None of them were no-brainer future success stories at the time. That much is true. But what we did in each case was like tearing up a lottery ticket before the numbers were even drawn.
Show me where here lots of people were clamoring to hold onto Siege, much less who thought he was going to blossom into a top pair defensive D? I mean I was one of his more ardent supporters and I wouldn’t have dared claim that. We needed more than a cheap 3D at the time. We didn’t get more unfortunately.
“No glaring downside”? The dude was bashed for being a crappier Orpik at times here lol.
Show me those here that said CS was a bonafide top-6 C and we’re making a huge mistake trading him.
Pretty confident they all don’t exist.
Also…..Siege asked to be traded. Footnote.
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Jags
Mildly Disturbed
Unfortunately, a big part of what we needed from that spot right then was price. There's price with future upside (Siegenthaler) and price with little future anything (Chara). Siegenthaler was ALWAYS better at LD than Djoos was on his off side. We blew dozens of development games on that bonehead move.
What we needed at that time was a good LD at a low price. We'd been sheltering our 3rd pair for a LONG time at that point. Siegs was a fit for what we needed and more.
I never said either of those things. Stop making shit up. I said he was an ideal fit at a low price. And that's true, given that our expectations from that spot were so low that we'd been filling it with a 60-pound righty and then filled it with a 7-foot geriatric scarecrow. Zero possible upside to either of those choices. Plenty of possible upside in Siegenthaler.
By you, maybe. That take is ridiculous on mobility alone. Holding up forum posts that are hyperbolic to the point of being nonsensical as the only support for your argument is an odd approach.
I never said that. Stop making shit up. I said there were no guarantees either guy would become much more than what they were. No one knew either would break out. But plenty of people saw the potential. I, personally, was as all-in on Stephenson. Those types of versatile, high-motor players are my favorites and he had all the promise of a very good one. Reirden shut him down.
I have less of a nose for defensive potential, but enough to know that Siegenthaler was head and shoulders above anything we had going on at LD in the pipe (despite drafting 40 of them). That's not necessarily saying much, but true nonetheless. And I never felt alone in that take. Letting him go didn't feel like the bonkers move Stephenson was, but losing him for very little and filling that spot with a corpse? THAT made it every bit as bonkers.
I felt that way. And look, my perspective on this is different from yours. I don't come here very often. I talk hockey mostly with my friends, and as much on reddit as here as far as online goes. So when I say "everyone" that's who I mean. I don't have my finger on the pulse of this particular community as much as someone with 60,000 posts does.
So my "everyone" had a lot of great things to say about Stephenson. That move was atrocious. Regardless of what he might become, he was better than Lars Eller at that moment. Maybe not quite the penalty killer, but clearly the better even strength forward. His talents were wasted by Reirden.
HTFN
Registered User
- Feb 8, 2009
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God you’re so petulant about this. He asked to be traded because they couldn’t stop riding a corpse into battle instead of letting him play, and now we see why that’s not always such a solid or safer plan. How many times you want to see it before you maybe think “oh, I guess they’re not faultless geniuses”?
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