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League News: NHL Talk - (News n' Scores n' Stuff) - 2022-23 season, Vol. 4, Off-season Edition

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Brian23

Brian23

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Hivemind said:
I'll put it this way:

The Capitals and Penguins are both travelling down the road towards a bridge that's out. We all see it coming ahead on the road, the retirement of the Ovechkin/Crosby/Malkin-era of players (that collapsed bridge ahead). The Penguins decided to gun it as hard as they can, they want to leap over that gap at full speed. They're probably not going to make it, and will end up crashing in the ravine. But they're gunning for it. The Capitals, on the other hand, are just kinda going the same speed as always. They're not punching it, but they're also not slowing down to avoid falling off the bridge. They're going to fall off into the same ravine as the Penguins, but they won't be doing a sick Dukes of Hazard burn-out before they do.

I think my personal preference would be to slow down and try to avoid falling off, but I'd rather do what the Pens are doing than do nothing at all end up in the same place.
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This is the epitome of a logical fallacy. You've already predisposed that the bridge is out and they're both going to crash and burn regardless and that's plainly complete bullshit. Using your example, what's really happening is that both teams have been told the bridge is knocked out, and then Pen's are trying to Duke's of Hazard their way across the gap. The Caps have, instead, decided to take the service road beside the road and are just gonna hope they don't get a flat going through the mud.

The Caps have acquired assets and previously setup contracts to all expire around the same time. They're banking on, essentially, a "soft" landing into a quick turn around. They assume, and I believe this to be rightfully the case, that there's no reason this team needs to suddenly go from one of the best of the last decade and a half to absolute dog water. That there's a world where they go through a small dip and come right back out as a competitive unit. They're probably willing to gamble a little to make it so that dip isn't that big, or that long, but they're certainly not going to mortgage their future. Pen's are letting Jesus take the wheel.

If you're going to try to paint a no none-sense picture of the situation, at least paint it appropriately.
 
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HeyMattyB

HeyMattyB

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Brian23 said:
Using your example, what's really happening is that both teams have been told the bridge is knocked out, and then Pen's are trying to Duke's of Hazard their way across the gap. The Caps have, instead, decided to...
Click to expand...

... roll up to that broken bridge with the G.I. Joe Bridge Layer!

1691625818511.png


KNOWING IS HALF THE BATTLE, PITTSBURGH!
 
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PlushMinus

PlushMinus

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HeyMattyB said:
... roll up to that broken bridge with the G.I. Joe Bridge Layer!

View attachment 734945

KNOWING IS HALF THE BATTLE, PITTSBURGH!
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That is some funny crap right there.

I was going to chant U.S.A! U.S.A! but the tank crew are, umm, a Canadian, a Russian, a Swede, and, oh wait, Letang is also Canadian...I guess Guentzel needs to be onboard! In fact if you crew that baby with the American born players on the Pens I'm not sure it makes it over the bridge even WITH the err, "Toss 'N Cross".

Ok I might have put way too much thought into this.
 
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Hivemind

Hivemind

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Brian23 said:
This is the epitome of a logical fallacy. You've already predisposed that the bridge is out and they're both going to crash and burn regardless and that's plainly complete bullshit. Using your example, what's really happening is that both teams have been told the bridge is knocked out, and then Pen's are trying to Duke's of Hazard their way across the gap. The Caps have, instead, decided to take the service road beside the road and are just gonna hope they don't get a flat going through the mud.

The Caps have acquired assets and previously setup contracts to all expire around the same time. They're banking on, essentially, a "soft" landing into a quick turn around. They assume, and I believe this to be rightfully the case, that there's no reason this team needs to suddenly go from one of the best of the last decade and a half to absolute dog water. That there's a world where they go through a small dip and come right back out as a competitive unit. They're probably willing to gamble a little to make it so that dip isn't that big, or that long, but they're certainly not going to mortgage their future. Pen's are letting Jesus take the wheel.

If you're going to try to paint a no none-sense picture of the situation, at least paint it appropriately.
Click to expand...

I don't want to get into a prolonged discussion on semantics, but I said in my analogy that the Capitals could chose to slow down to avoid falling off the bridge. That's the same thing you're saying with the service road.

The difference is that I don't see the Capitals as attempting to slow down or use the service road. They're just trucking on straight ahead at the same speed as always. I don't see the Capitals doing much of anything to set up a "soft landing." If they were trying for a soft landing and quick turn-around, they would have invested a heck of a lot more in youth. Guys like Protas and McMichael wouldn't be getting buried in the line-up at every opportunity. They wouldn't be bringing in guys like Irwin (and now Edmundson) instead of seeing if Alexeyev is ready to handle full-time duties. You've mentioned that group of contracts ending after 2025, well as of now we have little more than hope and conjecture as to how those positions might be filled. The Capitals are waiting until the last possible moment to see if their internal options have any chance at filling those roles (or even filling the secondary-level roles that are also declining).

If the Capitals had spent more of the past couple seasons actually preparing for the coming changing of the guard, I would agree with you and those who view the situation as you do. But the Capitals haven't really done that. They've continued with business as usual, filling the roster out with spare parts and over-the-hill veterans. Heck, prior to the past couple years they were even trading away some of the younger players who could have been the post-Ovechkin generation for this team.

Doing a core-turnover without a rebuild phase is incredibly difficult. Very few teams are successful at it. Detroit managing to go from the Yzerman/Shanahan/Chelios/Fedorov group to the Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Franzen group was one of the few successes I can think of (and they had one of the Top D of all time in Lidstrom to bridge both of those eras together). But Detroit built that next core group up right under the wings of their previous core. Datsyuk was a rookie on their 2002 Cup team, and Zetterberg a rookie the next year. Both were getting more than 15 minutes/night in that 2003 season and more than 18 minutes/night the next year. Detroit was ready for their Hall of Famers to retire because they had spent the seasons leading up to the lockout developing and evaluating their next generation of players, and knew that they had stars on their hands. The Capitals have done quite the opposite of that, filling gaps in the line-up with external options and suppressing the develop of their own prospects (something that was very much different compared to the last time the Capitals needed to develop a new wave of youth talent, where "slow cooking" prospects was the exception rather than the norm). Detroit also supplemented that group with other strong players near their prime, including being willing to trade assets for them. Todd Bertuzzi (yuck), Mathieu Schneider, Robert Lang (remember him?), Brad Stuart (during his relatively effective years), etc.

Fingers crossed that Carbery at least gives the younger players an equal footing compared to the veterans, because Laviolette sure didn't. They might be able to salvage something, but I fear it's already too little too late.
 
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RedRocking

RedRocking

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PlushMinus said:
That is some funny crap right there.

I was going to chant U.S.A! U.S.A! but the tank crew are, umm, a Canadian, a Russian, a Swede, and, oh wait, Letang is also Canadian...I guess Guentzel needs to be onboard! In fact if you crew that baby with the American born players on the Pens I'm not sure it makes it over the bridge even WITH the err, "Toss 'N Cross".

Ok I might have put way too much thought into this.
Click to expand...
Everyone is mucking up this bridge analogy. When in reality - the Caps are pretending the broken bridge/ravine doesn’t exist. Instead, they have plastered the side of the road with a million tacky signs for a brand new road: The Route 895 Bypass.

This new road has fresh cement, no potholes and looks beautiful - courtesy of Monumental Construction(TM). You take the 895 Bypass and see an incredible escalator in the distance. You get on this gleaming escalator, and the view is spectacular. It feels almost like June 2018 again! Below you can see this stupid, tiny Pens car spinning out into the ravine. Malkin is screaming unintelligibly. You laugh, and then…

 
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PlushMinus

PlushMinus

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Hivemind said:
I apologize for the biggest mistake in my analogy crafting - not using a Simpson's reference. It's really the foundation of this entire forum. It's like I was posting without extruded polyvinyl foam insulation.

Click to expand...

"Dig your own grave and save" and "half assed guide to foundation repair" lol

Gotta love The Simpsons - not so much the last few seasons, but those old ones are classics
 
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twabby

twabby

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I would have much rather Washington targeted Caleb Jones as a 2LD/3LD and just told him to kill penalties rather than trade for Joel Edmundson who is more expensive, is capped at being a 3LD, and forces Fehervary into the top 4 even if he’s not really suited for the role.

Jones also could have been a long term solution if he fit in, unlike Edmundson who is definitely just a stopgap.
 
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Cappy76

Cappy76

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twabby said:


I would have much rather Washington targeted Caleb Jones as a 2LD/3LD and just told him to kill penalties rather than trade for Joel Edmundson who is more expensive, is capped at being a 3LD, and forces Fehervary into the top 4 even if he’s not really suited for the role.

Jones also could have been a long term solution if he fit in, unlike Edmundson who is definitely just a stopgap.
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Probably don't need a long term solution when you have Alexeyev, Johansen, Iorio, and Chesley. Then include Fever and Sadin.

Management is blocking kids....why didn't we sign a piece that could be a long term solution....which is it?
 
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