NHL investigating Dallas Stars for CBA violation (upd: fined)

[Chainshot]

Andlauers anger paid off finally. We kept our draft pick this time. Tides turning in Sensland, this proves it.

There is still time to take a Sens pick away. I've also heard the next time Arizona has an expansion team, they too will forfeit a pick for this too.

 

[cowboy82nd]

Name any institution, anywhere, that isn’t corrupt.

HF Boards?

 

[SomeDude]

HF Boards?

 

[cowboy82nd]

It's a Southern US team. They'll probably give them a draft pick and leniency on their cap, giving them props for showing initiative.

Such bitterness. I hope you have a happy holiday season.

 

[The Hockey Tonk Man]

None of that has anything to do with it not being allowed.

What if, someone had no where to go over the holidays and wanted to go to the rink to skate? Work on some stuff with no pressure from the coaching staff?

I don't know the specifics of this event, or the fine. But I don't see an issue with that if its the case.

 

[Tryamw]

What if, someone had no where to go over the holidays and wanted to go to the rink to skate? Work on some stuff with no pressure from the coaching staff?

I don't know the specifics of this event, or the fine. But I don't see an issue with that if its the case.

As long as it's not club facilities. And not club run should be fine

 

[Bring Back Bucky]

Oilers third rounders until 2032 awarded to Calgary.

 

[1989]

This extra practice no other team held will have Dallas going 48-0-0 from this point onwards, book it.

 

[Beau Knows]

The NHLPA negotiated for the time off, you can't have teams holding "optional" skates/practices during that time. The fine is 100% justified, I don't know how anyone can possibly complain about it.

 

[ClydeLee]

This extra practice no other team held will have Dallas going 48-0-0 from this point onwards, book it.

It's the only explanation for their 5-1 win against the.... last place Blackhawks

 

[tarheelhockey]

the NHLPA (speaking on behalf of the players) decided that nobody should be able to get a leg up for prioritizing an extra skate over time with family/friends.

I’m not sure that’s really what they are going for. It’s more that no player should be asked, either explicitly or implicitly, to skip their vacation/family time in order to be at work. The concept of an “optional” practice in elite sports is little more an implicit command to be at the rink. Even at a very young age it’s understood that there’s no real option, especially for newer players.

 

[LOFIN]

Is it really a big deal if its optional ?

Edit : Seems like he expected the young players to show up even though it was "optional"

Even if they would send out a literal memo to every player in the organization that it's truly optional, the young guys and fringe NHLers would still feel the pressure to show up. That's why there can be no leeway in this, it's strict rules and that's a good thing.

 

[kerrabria]

I’m not sure that’s really what they are going for. It’s more that no player should be asked, either explicitly or implicitly, to skip their vacation/family time in order to be at work. The concept of an “optional” practice in elite sports is little more an implicit command to be at the rink. Even at a very young age it’s understood that there’s no real option, especially for newer players.

I think we’re saying the same thing. Players shouldn’t be put in a position where staying home for the holidays makes them appear less committed or game-ready than other players.

 

[Armourboy]

What if, someone had no where to go over the holidays and wanted to go to the rink to skate? Work on some stuff with no pressure from the coaching staff?

I don't know the specifics of this event, or the fine. But I don't see an issue with that if its the case.

There is no rule stating they can't skate, the rule is it can't involve the franchise in any way, including facilities. So basically they would need to find ice the Stars don't use. Now I don't know about Dallas but in the Nashville area that probably wouldn't be hard to set up, so I doubt it would be in/around Dallas either.

 

[JPT]

I would love to get comments from the players who went to the optional practice. Similarly when the Leafs left early, every single player said they wanted to so they could avoid the bad weather.

I'm 100% a union person, and believe in them and the rules 100% and can fully understand that things can be influenced by power dynamics, but at the same time, there does seem to lack a bit of common sense.

It's a contract. Common sense is to follow the contract or face consequences. The entire reason the Leafs took a vote was because they knew they would be violating the CBA.

 

[JPT]

Yes it matters that this was optional. Inevitably, a player who opts to practice will have some type of edge over a player who opts not to practice. Specifically they can use that time to better prepare themselves for the upcoming game (film, working on a play, winning favor with the coach etc.) which will incentivize the coach to give that player more playing time and opportunity.

I fully support rewarding those who work harder and are more dedicated, but the NHLPA (speaking on behalf of the players) decided that nobody should be able to get a leg up for prioritizing an extra skate over time with family/friends.

They can practice all they want outside of the team facility. Players train away from team facilities all off season to get a leg up. They can't do it during a mandated holiday break? You're making an excuse for management violating a collective bargaining agreement, and it's not even a good one.

 

[kerrabria]

They can practice all they want outside of the team facility. Players train away from team facilities all off season to get a leg up. They can't do it during a mandated holiday break? You're making an excuse for management violating a collective bargaining agreement, and it's not even a good one.

I don’t even know what point you’re making here.

 

[Dr Pepper]

They can practice all they want outside of the team facility. Players train away from team facilities all off season to get a leg up. They can't do it during a mandated holiday break? You're making an excuse for management violating a collective bargaining agreement, and it's not even a good one.

Management "violating" the CBA implies it was done against the consent of the players, which obviously wasn't the case since the skate was o-p-t-i-o-n-a-l.

I had to laugh when I saw the league was investigating this, and the fine that was doled out is a limp-wristed smack to Tom Gaglardi so I doubt he even cares.....much the same way the CBA's "max fines" make no impact at all whenever players have to pony up $5,000.

It means absolutely nothing, and I hope Dallas makes the same offer next season just to see the league throw a fit again.

 

[JPT]

Management "violating" the CBA implies it was done against the consent of the players, which obviously wasn't the case since the skate was o-p-t-i-o-n-a-l.

I had to laugh when I saw the league was investigating this, and the fine that was doled out is a limp-wristed smack to Tom Gaglardi so I doubt he even cares.....much the same way the CBA's "max fines" make no impact at all whenever players have to pony up $5,000.

It means absolutely nothing, and I hope Dallas makes the same offer next season just to see the league throw a fit again.

No, it doesn't "imply" anything. It explicitly states that a provision in the CBA was violated. It's a contract, not some bullshit agreement that can simply be tossed aside a la carte. What's the point in having a player union and a CBA if things in it can simply be ignored by holding a vote among an incredibly small selection of union members?

Just because you or coaches or even some players in the union don't hold the CBA in high regard doesn't make it any less of a binding contract, and yeah the league is going to have to investigate potential breaches of that contract because that's also in the contract.

 

[JPT]

I don’t even know what point you’re making here.

I think I just misinterpreted your point tbh.

 

[Golden_Jet]

NHL banning young players from hanging out with teammates at a free skate at the team facility is the funniest thing ever.

NO YOU MUST STAY AT HOME ALONE AND CAN'T TRAIN!

NHL didn’t ban them, the players negotiated the day off, and was agreed to lol.
The funniest part of the whole thing, is how mad you are about it, and yelling in all caps ,

 

[Dr Pepper]

No, it doesn't "imply" anything. It explicitly states that a provision in the CBA was violated. It's a contract, not some bullshit agreement that can simply be tossed aside a la carte. What's the point in having a player union and a CBA if things in it can simply be ignored by holding a vote among an incredibly small selection of union members?

Just because you or coaches or even some players in the union don't hold the CBA in high regard doesn't make it any less of a binding contract, and yeah the league is going to have to investigate potential breaches of that contract because that's also in the contract.

Right, and I'm saying it's still more of a nothingburger because, again, the players were under no obligation whatsoever to attend this optional skate. If they'd held a team meeting and then benched players for not attending, that's a different story but a random optional skate doesn't appear to make much of a difference.

But hey, rules is rules and Dallas's owner will cut a cheque.

 

[JPT]

Right, and I'm saying it's still more of a nothingburger because, again, the players were under no obligation whatsoever to attend this optional skate. If they'd held a team meeting and then benched players for not attending, that's a different story but a random optional skate doesn't appear to make much of a difference.

But hey, rules is rules and Dallas's owner will cut a cheque.

Well, no. What you were saying is that it wasn't a violation of the CBA due to the skate being optional and agreed to by players. That's why you said this:

"Management "violating" the CBA implies it was done against the consent of the players, which obviously wasn't the case since the skate was o-p-t-i-o-n-a-l."

That is patently false. Consent of the players means nothing in this context. Others have already pointed out that the purpose of this kind of rule is to eliminate the implicit pressure put on players, particularly the role players who make up most of the league but hold a disproportionately small amount of leverage and who are also constantly fighting for an edge to keep a spot or get more ice time, when an optional skate is scheduled. No amount of twisting in the wind to try to downplay that implicit pressure is going to work. It exists. We know it exists because this rule was negotiated to negate that pressure. If you think it's a nothingburger that's fine, but your excuse-making tells another story.

 

[Byron Bitz]

It's a Southern US team. They'll probably give them a draft pick and leniency on their cap, giving them props for showing initiative.

They took Arizona’s first round pick

 

[Dr Pepper]

Well, no. What you were saying is that it wasn't a violation of the CBA due to the skate being optional and agreed to by players. That's why you said this:

"Management "violating" the CBA implies it was done against the consent of the players, which obviously wasn't the case since the skate was o-p-t-i-o-n-a-l."

That is patently false. Consent of the players means nothing in this context. Others have already pointed out that the purpose of this kind of rule is to eliminate the implicit pressure put on players, particularly the role players who make up most of the league but hold a disproportionately small amount of leverage and who are also constantly fighting for an edge to keep a spot or get more ice time, when an optional skate is scheduled. No amount of twisting in the wind to try to downplay that implicit pressure is going to work. It exists. We know it exists because this rule was negotiated to negate that pressure. If you think it's a nothingburger that's fine, but your excuse-making tells another story.

I'm not making excuses, I'm just amused by the reaction from the league and I suppose from some in this thread.

Plus the wording that made it sound like much more of an issue than it was - hence the "nothingburger" comment because neither the team nor the players have been affected negatively by this in any way.

There was no "implicit pressure" either. I couldn't even tell you who attended this optional skate - or if ANYONE did, for that matter.