WJC: Whats wrong with Canada?

[Iggys Dome]

Dave Cameron is an abomination and deserves 50% of the blame, roster selection, cancelled practices, lack of discipline is on that idiot.

He's been a mediocre coach everywhere he's gone.

 

[Bounces R Way]

As usual in sports the most specific reason for this kind of poor result is that there are total morons in charge. They brought a bad team and did badly. I wasn't terribly surprised they bowed out quickly and didn't have high hopes for the team as soon as the initial camp invites were announced. It did go even worse than I thought it would, airborne toxic diaper disaster on fire is being too kind.

They scored the same total goals in this tournament as Switzerland did. Kazakhstan had more goals at even strength. We lost to freaking Latvia. Don't get me wrong great for those Latvian rascals but that is just unacceptable. Not to mention getting shit pumped by the cursed Yankees. I could have told you Dave Cameron is an inept and ineffective coach beforehand and I'm just some jackass on the internet. You didn't have a single practice in tournament? Like, WHAT?! Are we being punk'd or something? Did HC bet on a 5th place finish to replenish the rape fund? Then that group has the gall to claim they wouldn't change a thing, no regrets, I guess it was all due to some bad luck. That is frankly not good enough and neither was your trash team. I don't care that you all vacation together or that so and so is good fun on the golf course. Fire the whole lot of them.

Hockey Canada in general has been for too long too often happy to sit on their ass and jerk each other off. Not the only Canadian taxpayer funded entity in need of total overhaul.

 

[jbeck5]

Canada isn't only country screwing up. The 2015-2016 USA Team left off or not have access to Hanifin, Eichel, Larkin, Connor, Garland and Tuch. Still beat Canada with Marner, Point, Konecny, Barzal. Shit happens.

Some of those guys were in the NHL lol I'm not talking about that...clearly.

I'm talking about all the talent they left off.

 

[WatchfulElm]

Canadian fans are quick to mock all the problems going on with Hockey Québec, but are also quick to dismiss the fact that Hockey Canada is plagued by the exact same problems.

The difference is that in Quebec, I see a political will to shake things up, change the structures and "make hockey great again", despite many hurdles in place, while in Canada, people just seem happy to keep on going, and don't recognize that something isn't working anymore here and that other countries are catching up.

 

[Nogatco Rd]

How hard would it be to say something like:

“In hindsight, it is clear that we could have prioritized assembling a roster more focused on skill and offensive capabilities to meet the demands of today’s international game. This reflection is not a critique of the effort, passion, and dedication shown by our selected players, all of whom represented Canada with pride and commitment. Rather, it is a recognition of how the game is evolving and the need for us to evolve alongside it.

As we move forward, we will re-evaluate our selection criteria and processes to ensure we are putting together the most competitive team possible, balancing skill, versatility, and team chemistry. We owe it to our players, our fans, and the tradition of Canadian hockey to continuously learn and improve.”

When you essentially say “the team selection was done well. It’s not our fault” all you’re doing is avoiding taking any accountability.

They can think that internally, but there's no reason to throw the kids they did bring under the bus like that publicly. A more general statement about how the result isn't acceptable and will prompt reflection and reevaluation of all phases of the org going forward would suffice IMO.

 

[FMichael]

 

[NoelVilla]

Some of their best players play in the NHL. Another reason I am against more teams than 32.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

Some of those guys were in the NHL lol I'm not talking about that...clearly.

I'm talking about all the talent they left off.

They left off K. Connor, Garland & Tuch upfront and Marino on D, with D'Accord as the
other Goalie. That is plenty of talent to leave off. I mentioned Eichel, Larkin and Hanifin
to show how much total talent was missing from the US Team.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

Some of those guys were in the NHL lol I'm not talking about that...clearly.

I'm talking about all the talent they left off.

Further, the 1980 US Olympic Team was a group that managed to
overcome missing players from their peer pool (Langway, Mullen, Roberts, Dunn, Gorence, Nilan and Baker) and beat Czechoslovakia and the Soviets and won Gold.

Quit whining about missing players. This isn't the 1960s Internationally anymore, deal with reality.

I'm a US fan, but can easily see a Euro Final. These teams are within reason capable of beating each other.

 

[JackSlater]

This is funny as Dave Cameron said he has no regrets about any of the decisions:

1. There was nothing wrong with the virus that he instilled on the team, 6 roles players, and they could not score. Slower players cannot create offense. This puts stress on the 2 top lines, hence everyone is pressured to play overly aggressive, causing more penalties.

2. Taking so long to realize there was something wrong with the PP.

3. His role players did not do good jobs on PK, so why picking so many role players. He must thought that his role players were equally as offensive as others who were left off like Crystall and Sennecke.

4. Lack of line chemistry.

5. It is amazing that they do not even practice when there were so many things that were wrong with the team and the way that they played.

6. Peter Anholt refused to acknowledge that there was need to practice. Team USA did practise for short period as there were scientific evidence that they may help players.

7. Dave Cameron and Peter Annholt are too old for this job. Get better and more intelligent people for coaches and GM.

https://www.tsn.ca/hockey-canada/video/why-did-canada-stop-practicing-at-world-juniors~3055688

Full credit to Masters for going out of his way to mildly rub it in their faces. I don't think we really need scientific evidence that practice helps players, it's basic knowledge. Not holding practices is the deviation from the norm. It becomes more obvious when your team struggles in basic situations that can be simulated in practice.

I don't understand why Anholt and company were even involved in the decision to not practice, which is what is clearly being stated. In any event, Anholt is a career loser who should never have been hired. Canada survived Cameron once, and needed very good fortune to do it, and was due to be burned by him after bringing him back for a third time when surely no one outside of Hockey Canada's offices wanted him.

It's clear that they don't get it. They have implied that there were character issues last year, lack of drive etc. Maybe, but primarily the roster just wasn't all that good as it was a weak crop of Canadian players. So they went for what they deemed to be competitive, character players this year but didn't factor in that the crop of players was significantly better this time. They just needed to pick better players. They also implicitly blame Letang when they repeatedly cite that they wanted an experienced coach like Cameron. Letang did suck, but the solution was not to get an experienced coach - the solution was to get a good coach, not someone who has been around the block and once tricked an NHL team into hiring him. It is also laughable that they talk about this team having a clear identity when it very clearly had no identity. Well, no positive identity. The players deserve blame too but being realistic it would have taken one guy going supernova

Pick a good roster and have a good coach to coach them. That is the solution. You don't need to pretend you're doing these amazing things at the u18 and u17 levels and then box yourself in based on what did or did not happen at those lesser events, it's just that Canada has the best pool of players. Salmond is correct that he is the top person to blame here. His job is winning these tournaments and he doesn't win them enough. Should be fired.

 

[LOFIN]

Pretty good discussion on Real Kyper and Bourne yesterday:

 

[jj cale]

Full credit to Masters for going out of his way to mildly rub it in their faces. I don't think we really need scientific evidence that practice helps players, it's basic knowledge. Not holding practices is the deviation from the norm. It becomes more obvious when your team struggles in basic situations that can be simulated in practice.

I don't understand why Anholt and company were even involved in the decision to not practice, which is what is clearly being stated. In any event, Anholt is a career loser who should never have been hired. Canada survived Cameron once, and needed very good fortune to do it, and was due to be burned by him after bringing him back for a third time when surely no one outside of Hockey Canada's offices wanted him.

It's clear that they don't get it. They have implied that there were character issues last year, lack of drive etc. Maybe, but primarily the roster just wasn't all that good as it was a weak crop of Canadian players. So they went for what they deemed to be competitive, character players this year but didn't factor in that the crop of players was significantly better this time. They just needed to pick better players. They also implicitly blame Letang when they repeatedly cite that they wanted an experienced coach like Cameron. Letang did suck, but the solution was not to get an experienced coach - the solution was to get a good coach, not someone who has been around the block and once tricked an NHL team into hiring him. It is also laughable that they talk about this team having a clear identity when it very clearly had no identity. Well, no positive identity. The players deserve blame too but being realistic it would have taken one guy going supernova

Pick a good roster and have a good coach to coach them. That is the solution. You don't need to pretend you're doing these amazing things at the u18 and u17 levels and then box yourself in based on what did or did not happen at those lesser events, it's just that Canada has the best pool of players. Salmond is correct that he is the top person to blame here. His job is winning these tournaments and he doesn't win them enough. Should be fired.

Bingo, brass tax, he's gotta go.

Times up on that show, thanks for your service.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

TSN (very passive aggressively) asked a bunch of Americans (including Carle) about why they practice during the WJC and posted those clips along with clips from the press conferences: https://www.tsn.ca/hockey-canada/video/why-did-canada-stop-practicing-at-world-juniors~3055688

It's interesting what Carle has to say about managing practice intensity/duration based on sports science.

They sound like they are operating in two different centuries. Not a good look for Hockey Canada.

 

[jj cale]

Pretty good discussion on Real Kyper and Bourne yesterday:

Meh, 3 couch potatoes who somehow have a job as sports analysts.

 

[mjhfb]

Maybe the question is should they pick skilled players, that can play a role if needed, rather than picking role players to try to play skilled if needed.

 

[hirawl]

Nothing really. It's mainly about the insane amount of pressure on kids playing a game.

 

[behemolari]

Canada just have no talent to challenge powerhouse like Czechia

 

[jbeck5]

They left off K. Connor, Garland & Tuch upfront and Marino on D, with D'Accord as the
other Goalie. That is plenty of talent to leave off. I mentioned Eichel, Larkin and Hanifin
to show how much total talent was missing from the US Team.

Sure, but I wasn't complaining that they left celibrini off the team... So naming players in the NHL wasn't relevant to my point or my post.

Further, the 1980 US Olympic Team was a group that managed to
overcome missing players from their peer pool (Langway, Mullen, Roberts, Dunn, Gorence, Nilan and Baker) and beat Czechoslovakia and the Soviets and won Gold.

Quit whining about missing players. This isn't the 1960s Internationally anymore, deal with reality.

I'm a US fan, but can easily see a Euro Final. These teams are within reason capable of beating each other.

Nice recent example.

Some of those guys also became better players later on, and weren't actually the snubs you think they would have been today.

 

[JianYang]

I've lost interest in this tournament over the years, but I am hearing alot of talk about not selecting the best players for the roster.

Perhaps overthinking on roster construction? I think the program has been guilty of this in the past.

Then again, going back to dave cameron as HC over and over seems kinda lazy to me. I guess it's possible he has some good connections within hockey Canada.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

Sure, but I wasn't complaining that they left celibrini off the team... So naming players in the NHL wasn't relevant to my point or my post.



Nice recent example.

Some of those guys also became better players later on, and weren't actually the snubs you think they would have been today.

Everyone of those players would have made the 1980 Olympic Team. Nilan was on the defending Stanley Cup Champions right around the end of the Olympics. Was better than Eruzione, Schneider, Harrington & Wells at that point. Mullen and Gorence were absolutely better as well. Langway, Roberts & Dunn were all NHL regulars better than Baker\O'Callahan and much better than Suter. Christian would have been moved back to Forward with Roberts & Dunn as PMD. Steve Baker was the 2nd Goalie selected in '77 NHL Draft well ahead of Craig and was considered a better goalie going back to HS in Greater Boston. I was two years ahead of Langway
Cox and Baker, saw them play in HS\College.

If I tried selling Paul Fenton and Aaron Broten would have been guaranteed 1980
players your point about getting better later would be right on, but every player I listed
was deserving (plus Ralph Cox).

 

[jbeck5]

Everyone of those players would have made the 1980 Olympic Team. Nilan was on the defending Stanley Cup Champions right around the end of the Olympics. Was better than Eruzione, Schneider, Harrington & Wells at that point. Mullen and Gorence were absolutely better as well. Langway, Roberts & Dunn were both NHL regulars way better
than Suter and Christian would have been moved back to Forward with Roberts & Dunn
as PMD.

I'm not talking about players in the NHL though..not sure why you are lol

 

[KillerMillerTime]

I'm not talking about players in the NHL though..not sure why you are lol

My point is obvious, if a country that was considered an also ran could withstand losing talent like Langway, Mullen and Roberts and beat one of the 2 greatest teams of all time, plus a decent Czechoslovakia Team, Canada should be able to overcome 2-3 selections blown at the Jr. level and advance to the Medal Round.

You lost because your players have trouble adapting to IIHF officiating and outgoalied.

 

[algernon]

Bingo, brass tax, he's gotta go.

Times up on that show, thanks for your service.

Uh, it's brass tarrifs

 

[WarriorofTime]

I think hockey Canada just isn’t a very good organization. They operate far below efficiency. Some of it may have to do with the reluctance to do anything to impact the business model of the CHL but a bit too much focus on summer events and less on building up real national teams in anticipation of this. For instance, the historical primary feeder for the U20 team is the summer hockey Canada sponsored Gretzky Hlinka tournament for players prior to their age 17 season. For the 05s, this was played July 31-August 5, 2022. That’s two years and five months ago. The Czech, Swedish and Finnish kids are playing much more regularly at a national team level in the buildup to the U20s. The USNTDP plays all together through their age 17 season culminating as playing as a group in the IIHF U18s. Still a bit of a lag but April U18s are not as long a lag as prior year August, and players from the prior two graduating USNTDP classes usually make up the bulk of the U20 roster.

Hockey Canada made some good changes in 1998 after a lull period which helped immensely but have rested on laurels since. They free ride on the immense demand and talent amongst Canadian hockey players and parents and use that to think they are so smart and great.

Canadian Hockey does not equal Hockey Canada.

 

[jbeck5]

My point is obvious, if a country that was considered an also ran could withstand losing talent like Langway, Mullen and Roberts and beat one of the 2 greatest teams of all time, plus a decent Czechoslovakia Team, Canada should be able to overcome 2-3 selections blown at the Jr. level and advance to the Medal Round.

You lost because your players have trouble adapting to IIHF officiating and outgoalied.

Lmao exactly why I wanted a handful of better players that could adapt.

It's like you're making my point for me.

The team wasn't good and better players were available. The players we did pick weren't good. We agree there.