NHL Expansion back on agenda?

[Big Z Man 1990]

I don’t watch any of those, so they can do whatever they want,
But definitely have no interest in the North division.

And you never in the last year have answered the question numerous posters have asked.

Do you think the NY teams and Boston would like playing in a division with LA, SJ and Anaheim.?
You always avoid answering that conveniently , we know why, as those teams would hate it as well.

There's enough American teams that they can be divided into four divisions based on the four main regions - Northeast, Midwestern, South, and West.

Besides there is a counter argument here: three major college conferences now span from coast to coast.

 

[RayMartyniukTotems]

Yes I agree that a team in Atlanta should come back but for the love of GOD make sure there’s a proper arena available or built and do this properly!! Also I’d like to see KC and QC come back and a new team in Houston wouldn’t be a bad thing either!!

And Milwaukee is a Northern City that would be a hit in the NHL and San Diego doesn't have much competition for the Dollar during the Winter months and lets have the Hartford Whalers come back with that Awesome logo and Hamilton could round out the NHL to 40 teams...I'd even like to see a 44 team NHL with 32 teams making the play-offs and 1 plays 16 in each Conference so no back door winning the Cup...as for my 4 other teams well Portland would be good for Seattle and Vancouver,BC,Canada,Cincinnati or Cleveland or both and Omaha or Indianapolis...and lets go a step farther and go 4 on 4 hockey with no OT's until play-offs and no F...ing 3 on 3 crap...want to see lots of goals and have the goaltenders handling 45-55 shots per game and be talking and mumbling and babbling in their sleep

 

[Golden_Jet]

There's enough American teams that they can be divided into four divisions based on the four main regions - Northeast, Midwestern, South, and West.

Besides there is a counter argument here: three major college conferences now span from coast to coast.

No one cares what colleges do,

Canadians teams wouldn’t accept it, nor the fans, so it doesn’t matter, we now know what’s it like. So you can keep spouting your idea, it’s going nowhere.
Numerous posters told you a year ago, it was bad idea, nothing changed in the last year.
Cheers

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

No one cares what colleges do,

Canadians teams wouldn’t accept it, so it doesn’t matter, nor the fans, we now know what’s it like. So you can keep spouting your idea, it’s going nowhere.
Numerous posters told you a year ago, it was bad idea, nothing changed in the last year.
Cheers

Again, I must point out that not only does my proposal guarantee a Canadian team in the SCF, it also prevents situations like in 2016 when no Canadian team made the playoffs. Surely no fan of a Canadian team would be fine with an all-American playoffs.

 

[Bixby Snyder]

Surely no fan of a Canadian team would be fine with an all-American playoffs.

They might not be fine with it but surely they should be accustomed to it by now.

 

[aqib]

"So quickly" is funny considering they added nine franchises (and 14 new markets) in a span of like 12 years in the 1990s.

The stage NHL expansion is in right now is roughly the same as it was when we had threads about "The NHL is going to 32 after the CBA is settled!" And the Kraken took the ice NINE YEARS LATER.

You're right that "sudden rapid expansion is bad." But that's why you're always better off adding one team every 6 years than dropping six teams at once every 36 years.




That's all the history of backroom dealing in sports expansion attempt history. Which I find fascinating.

The short version is: Houston knew they needed a new NBA/NHL arena but were waiting to see whom they needed to include in negotiations; because three different groups in Houston put in bids for an NHL expansion team. And the NHL wasn't giving a team without an arena plan in place, so they rejected all three bids. Houston worked an arena deal with the NBA owner that said they wouldn't allow for a competing arena, so the NBA is the only guy who can bring an NHL team to Houston. The NBA owner (both of them over time) have never wanted to pay full price.

If Seattle had their arena situation squared away they would have gotten a team at the same time as Vegas.
As far as Houston goes I wonder which of the 4 98-00 expansion teams would have been left out if Houston had gotten in.

 

[dj4aces]

Again, I must point out that not only does my proposal guarantee a Canadian team in the SCF, it also prevents situations like in 2016 when no Canadian team made the playoffs. Surely no fan of a Canadian team would be fine with an all-American playoffs.

Look... in the current system, teams have to earn it. If that means 16 US-based teams make the playoffs because the seven Canadian teams suck, so be it. There's also a scenario where every Canadian team makes the playoffs.

 

[ponder719]

There are ideas that are far worse than my proposal that have been put into place, like the NBA play-in games and not adopting a North VS. South format for the expanded College Football Playoff.

No, nobody has put into place a worse system than "8 teams have on average a 1-in-8 chance of playing for the championship, the other 32 teams have on average a 1-in-32 chance of playing for the championship," The European Super League tried, and even their best effort wasn't as ludicrous as that.

 

[Tawnos]

No, nobody has put into place a worse system than "8 teams have on average a 1-in-8 chance of playing for the championship, the other 32 teams have on average a 1-in-32 chance of playing for the championship," The European Super League tried, and even their best effort wasn't as ludicrous as that.

It's seriously one of the worst ideas I've ever seen on BoH.

 

[nhlfan79]

 

[RayMartyniukTotems]

Maybe someday.

Not sure if any team coming back to Arizona would carry the Coyotes name. Think the mood here seems to be to go in a different direction even with the Kachina logo being as popular as it was.

If and when a team in Phoenix present the NHL 1.5 B they should go with the Ol' name of Roadrunners from the WHL-WHA days...terrific name and logo just spitballing...just make sure Meruelo is no where near it would fail again and again and again

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Again, I must point out that not only does my proposal guarantee a Canadian team in the SCF, it also prevents situations like in 2016 when no Canadian team made the playoffs. Surely no fan of a Canadian team would be fine with an all-American playoffs.

Canadian teams don't deserve anything. Teams get into playoffs based on how they perform. If Ottawa gets outplayed by eight American teams up and down the East Coast, then the Canadian capital goes without hockey in the spring.

Can you stop your delusional dribble and go back to posting on a non-hockey board?

 

[tucker3434]

There's enough American teams that they can be divided into four divisions based on the four main regions - Northeast, Midwestern, South, and West.

Besides there is a counter argument here: three major college conferences now span from coast to coast.

College sports are an entirely different animal. Conferences are independent from the NCAA. They have their own tv contracts, revenue sharing, etc. There's no scenario where Edmonton gets invited to the Atlantic division so they can get a piece of that western Canada revenue. They've already got it. So there's no need for irrational footprints.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

The college analogy is nonsensical, because while they are conferences in name in reality they're borderline their own leagues under an overall sports confederation overseeing it all. Not to mention that we have yet to see if this will actually be good for fans or not, which I don't think it will be.

The only reason why this is happening is because the Big Ten and SEC have been much more competently-run and have considerably more valuable TV contracts, further augmented by their expanding footprints. The NHL already has a national footprint in the USA and Canada, there's no financial incentive to them to go with a permanent northern division just because.

We get it through, you want a guaranteed Canadian team in a conference final every year, and while there might be a HRR-incentive it'd also be brutal for fans and up travel costs, so adding six of one and subtracting half a dozen of the other.

 

[Takuto Maruki]

We also need the NHL to have games on the CW, for reasons. It works for CFB, and the NHL runs concurrent to CFB, so ergo, it'll work for the NHL!

 

[Sgt Schultz]

Let's not forget the minor detail that the college conferences that span coast to coast do not routinely play every team in their conference every year, at least in football. So the travel impact is limited, especially when the total schedule is 12 games (including non-conference games), with normally half being at home. They are more willing to go coast-to-coast in basketball because they can consolidate their cross-country trips to one or two per season, rather than some major share of 41 games road games.

And travel/time zones are just one of the problems.

Let's play. Suppose the Canadian media companies all get together and demand this "or else." Then the US franchises and media say, okay "or else it is." Then what?

The counter proposal is to divest the NHL into two leagues, one consisting of the 25 US franchises and whatever Canadian franchises want to be part of that pie, and the rest of the Canadian franchises can have the NHL name and whatever revenue they generate. No revenue arrangements between the two rival leagues other than they can meet every year in a championship round and split that pot.
Which league do we think the Canadien, Maple Leaf, Oiler, Canuck, Flame, Jet, and Senator franchises will go to? Will they follow the money, or the flag? And how about the better talent......which direction will they go?

The Canadian media companies are not dumb. They, too, will follow the money.

And I'm a guy who wants to see one of the Canadian franchises win a Cup to break the string, and I want to see the Maple Leafs win one before I die because they are the only remaining original or second six team I have not seen skate with it (they last won it the year before I discovered hockey as a kid). And "before I die" is not an insult, because I was saying the same thing about the Blues before 2019. But trying to engineer it so it happens will implode, as it always manages to.

Newton was onto something with that pesky third law. The equal and opposite reaction seems to apply to a lot more than physics, and in the other places it does, it is usually more than equal.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

Let's not forget the minor detail that the college conferences that span coast to coast do not routinely play every team in their conference every year, at least in football. So the travel impact is limited, especially when the total schedule is 12 games (including non-conference games), with normally half being at home. They are more willing to go coast-to-coast in basketball because they can consolidate their cross-country trips to one or two per season, rather than some major share of 41 games road games.

And travel/time zones are just one of the problems.

Let's play. Suppose the Canadian media companies all get together and demand this "or else." Then the US franchises and media say, okay "or else it is." Then what?

The counter proposal is to divest the NHL into two leagues, one consisting of the 25 US franchises and whatever Canadian franchises want to be part of that pie, and the rest of the Canadian franchises can have the NHL name and whatever revenue they generate. No revenue arrangements between the two rival leagues other than they can meet every year in a championship round and split that pot.
Which league do we think the Canadien, Maple Leaf, Oiler, Canuck, Flame, Jet, and Senator franchises will go to? Will they follow the money, or the flag? And how about the better talent......which direction will they go?

The Canadian media companies are not dumb. They, too, will follow the money.

And I'm a guy who wants to see one of the Canadian franchises win a Cup to break the string, and I want to see the Maple Leafs win one before I die because they are the only remaining original or second six team I have not seen skate with it (they last won it the year before I discovered hockey as a kid). And "before I die" is not an insult, because I was saying the same thing about the Blues before 2019. But trying to engineer it so it happens will implode, as it always manages to.

Newton was onto something with that pesky third law. The equal and opposite reaction seems to apply to a lot more than physics, and in the other places it does, it is usually more than equal.

I'm pretty sure the American teams will do anything to stay on Canadian national TV, even if they have to fight harder for a Cup than the Canadian teams.

 

[ponder719]

I'm pretty sure the American teams will do anything to stay on Canadian national TV, even if they have to fight harder for a Cup than the Canadian teams.

Your unshakable faith in the importance of Canada to American teams is laudable patriotism, but utterly misguided. Toronto and a handful of cities equivalent to Buffalo aren't going to generate enough money for the American teams to willingly submit to becoming second-class citizens in the league they dominate.

 

[Sgt Schultz]

I'm pretty sure the American teams will do anything to stay on Canadian national TV, even if they have to fight harder for a Cup than the Canadian teams.

I'm equally sure you are wrong about that.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

Your unshakable faith in the importance of Canada to American teams is laudable patriotism, but utterly misguided. Toronto and a handful of cities equivalent to Buffalo aren't going to generate enough money for the American teams to willingly submit to becoming second-class citizens in the league they dominate.

American teams would still be able to dominate the NBA, NFL, and MLB, like it was before Bettman came long and made it so the American teams dominated the NHL as well. In the case of the NFL, all teams are American out of respect for the CFL.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I'm equally sure you are wrong about that.

Yep only poster thinking that way, North division.
Is just re-hashing a point made over a year ago,
Was useless then, and still is.

 

[Sgt Schultz]

Yep only poster thinking that way, North division.
Is just re-hashing a point made over a year ago,
Was useless then, and still is.

Based on that, I wonder what state he represents in Congress?

 

[ponder719]

American teams would still be able to dominate the NBA, NFL, and MLB, like it was before Bettman came long and made it so the American teams dominated the NHL as well. In the case of the NFL, all teams are American out of respect for the CFL.

So, your argument is that a collection of billionaires, who are heavily invested in this sport because of the opportunity for growth it provides, will turn over major avenues of growth (the revenue and merchandising opportunities that come with the possibility of success at the highest level) to 1/5 of the teams in their league, because there are different rich people who own teams in other sports? What in God's name does the NBA, NFL, MLB, college, or competitive whist have to do with the greed of the NHL ownership groups in specific?

 

[Tawnos]

So, your argument is that a collection of billionaires, who are heavily invested in this sport because of the opportunity for growth it provides, will turn over major avenues of growth (the revenue and merchandising opportunities that come with the possibility of success at the highest level) to 1/5 of the teams in their league, because there are different rich people who own teams in other sports? What in God's name does the NBA, NFL, MLB, college, or competitive whist have to do with the greed of the NHL ownership groups in specific?

Well put.

Also, the NFL isn't in Canada out of respect for the CFL? C'mon now. The NFL would run the CFL right out of business if there was enough of a gain financially in doing so.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Well put.

Also, the NFL isn't in Canada out of respect for the CFL? C'mon now. The NFL would run the CFL right out of business if there was enough of a gain financially in doing so.

I doubt it , CFL first grey cup was 1909, NFL has always respected the CFL.
They are not in Canada because they do t want to kill the league.

Where will the Americans go, that play in the CFL.