NHL.com TOP 20 Defenseman

[Czechboy]

View attachment 904562
List of defensemen who played 500+ minutes against "Elite" competition as defined by puckiq. Matheson, Parayko, Leddy, and Fowler are below Seider but didn't fit in the screenshot.

So to me and most, it doesn't look like Seider was very good. But there is a pocket of Wing's fans that repeatedly type something like 'most ungodly deployment in NHL history' or 'no one has ever faced tougher competition'. Something to that affect.

I'm being serious. I've never seen this stat but have only seen it referenced to. Any chance you have that screencap? Or can one of the Wing's fans post what they are refferring to?

FTR.. I love Seider and have him near Makar and Hughes but, to me, he had a poor season and has slipped in the 'tiers'. I just want to see that actual stat that shows hardest deployment in NHL history. I'd actually like to see the top 10 of that list so I can see what we are talking about.

 

[Crow]

This is the worst list yet.

 

[Crow]

Hedman, Toews, Forsling all about 8 spots too high each. Dahlin, fox way too low.

 

[super6646]

WHERE IS BRADY SKJEI?!!!

 

[Czechboy]

roaring in about 11 points

That is because that is how many points he got in the finals.. more than anyone else (see below). He almost doubled the top Panther scorers in the playoffs 42 points to 22.

Imagine doing all that and hearing about how you were shut down?

8 of those points were in 2 games.

2 of our 3 wins and that is an amazing feat! Can't think of many players getting 8 points in 2 Stanley Cup final games. You? 8 points is more than any Panther had in the series.

Was he not shutdown in Game 7?

He was and the better team won. I have no issue with that. If you wrote that he was shut down in game 7 then I move on. But the 'playoffs' is 4 rounds and 16 wins. The finals was 7 games. He was exceptional for all of that. Won the Conn Smythe. You're the only person in history to think that a Conn Smythe winner was mostly shut down.

Wtf?? Nice jump in there.

Didn't realize it was a private conversation.

I get the feeling I'm not going to get traction but here is my last attempt:

You're saying the guy that led the series in scoring (and won the Conn Smythe) was mostly shut down. He was by far our bet player and the main reason it went to 7. The reason we lost is elsewhere and that would include that Panthers were that damn good.

 

[Czechboy]

he had 3 points over 5 games outside of two

but outside of those two games,

average down to 3 in 5.

.6 in 5 out of 7.

This has to be some of the best cherry picking I've ever seen

It was a 7 game final. A 4 round playoff. We don't just look at the stats in our victories and ignore the ones in our losses.

 

[ricky0034]

Fox at 8 really sticks out here

 

[Laus723]

This has to be some of the best cherry picking I've ever seen

It was a 7 game final. A 4 round playoff. We don't just look at the stats in our victories and ignore the ones in our losses.

Dude, wtf are you struggling with? I said Forsling helped shut him down in MOST of the games. He came back with his 11 points comment giving me all 7 games, the entirety isn't most. He was unreal over two games, it got him the Conn Smythe, his production was cut by two thirds in the others...which was most.

 

[Golden_Jet]

. He was unreal over two games, it got him the Conn Smythe,

lol sure bud

can we get back on topic now

 

[Golden_Jet]

sure bud, might wanna check with your boy who can't handle the word most.

Sure bud, don’t care what your boy said.
I’m still laughing at this, one of the worst points ever.

He was unreal over two games, it got him the Conn Smythe,

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Hedman, Toews, Forsling all about 8 spots too high each. Dahlin, fox way too low.

According to what?


One of the very best in the league both offensively and defensively.

 

[Laus723]

Sure bud, don’t care what your boy said.
I’m still laughing at this, one of the worst points ever.

He was unreal over two games, it got him the Conn Smythe,

did it not cement him the Conn Smythe? What's the issue?

 

[pb1300]

Because you can’t. Your argument is “McDavid was shutdown in the series except for the games when he wasn’t lolz”. You made a dumb BS statement that is indefensible by any rational or logical thought process. Your team was literally outscored significantly in the series, but somehow McDavid was shutdown for most of it? Make it make sense lmao. Matter of fact, when was the last time a Cup winner was outscored in the final series? Has it ever happened before?

Nobody is arguing his greatness, but he scored 8 of his 11 points in 2 games, and most of those 8 points were when his team was well in control of the game. He did nothing when the game mattered most. But of course, he was injured, so that is why.

 

[Golden_Jet]

According to what?


One of the very best in the league both offensively and defensively.

I’d agree with other poster
Hedman to high and Toews too high, no issue in top 20 though for Toews.

 

[Czechboy]

Dude. 8 points. in two games. 3 in 5 others. I don't give a f*** about the two games. You lost the 4 of the other 5. Figure it out.

It's rare you see Steiner Math in real time.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Dude. 8 points. in two games. 3 in 5 others. I don't give a f*** about the two games. You lost the 4 of the other 5. Figure it out.

“We won the Cup lolz. McDavid was shutdown except for when he wasn’t lolz. I don’t understand which of 3/7 or 4/7 is most lolz.”

You’ve lost the argument emphatically, but keep muttering around if you want to.

 

[Crow]

According to what?


One of the very best in the league both offensively and defensively.

With Cale Makar out of the line up I’ve read Toews has played to a rate of about a 38 point guy offensively and still great defensively obviously. It’s also just my viewings of his talent in general.

To me he is definitely a top 20 guy but there are a lot of amazing defensemen out there in consideration and not all of them are able to play with the leagues very best night in and out.

 

[Laus723]

“We won the Cup lolz. McDavid was shutdown except for when he wasn’t lolz. I don’t understand which of 3/7 or 4/7 is most lolz.”

You’ve lost the argument emphatically, but keep muttering around if you want to.

It's rare you see Steiner Math in real time.

As I said, I love the Edmonton bullshit. but, but, but...

 

[PuckG]

Not really, there's been a clear agenda for the media to pump up the team with the best and most exciting player in the world and I get why.

And to be fair while I don't think either one deserves to be on the list I actually kind of get why they are.

Bouchard had 81 points and a shit tonne in the playoffs and while it's obvious that playing 100% of his shifts with Mcdrai heavily influenced that he still got those points.

As for Ekholm, the fact that he was able to cover for the fact that Bouchard is god awful in his zone kind of makes them a package deal.
I'm sure you'll take this the wrong way but but I don't actually mean this in a bad way since while I doubt it could be replicated on any other team it works for the oilers.

That’s a lot of typing for an extremely poor analysis of ice hockey.

 

[majormajor]

I see they're going to keep putting Hedman on the top of these lists even when he can't skate or defend anymore. Pure legacy rating for him.

 

[KCC]

Worst list yet. Fox's placement is laughable.

The top 20 is pretty decent overall it's just the order. And that's never going to be perfect. Everyone has their own list.

 

[pb1300]

Where’d I say mcdavid was terrible?

McDavid was kept in check by and large through most of the series. That someone has an issue with my choice of word…I don’t care. I didn’t paint the picture he was terrible.

Again, 8 of his 11 points were in 2 games, with most of those 8 points when the Oilers had firm control of the games. When it mattered most, he did shit. Nowhere did I say he was terrible, or your for that matter. Everyone admits he is the best. We never stated that though. So all their nonsense can go in the losers bin, with the Oilers and their fans.

 

[Laus723]

Again, 8 of his 11 points were in 2 games, with most of those 8 points when the Oilers had firm control of the games. When it mattered most, he did shit. Nowhere did I say he was terrible, or your for that matter. Everyone admits he is the best. We never stated that though. So all their nonsense can go in the losers bin, with the Oilers and their fans.

Yep. He won the Conn Smythe, he earned it, funny all the twists here cause we’re pointing how well Forsling did MOST of the series.

 

[McJedi]

But he doesn't. People need to stop thinking "defensive metrics" are actual results. An on-ice EV GD of -5 in the toughest minutes in recorded NHL history isn't getting smoked.

To put it this way; no one's been able to explain how Detroit could be a 91 point team last season if Seider was actually getting destroyed every shift and impacting the team negatively.

Deroit has a good set of forwards.

They suck defensively but their forwards corps are solid. Seider gets to play with a lot of good forwards.

And he’s still getting killed out there. He had some of the worst defensive metrics in the NHL last year. He was downright bad in several games last year. That dude isn’t a top 20 defender. Not based on the last two seasons anyway.

I will say this for him. He is very much underrated offensively. He’s badly overrated defensively.

 

[Fatass]

In this hard cap era imo we must include the player’s contract. Some guys, Hughes and Makar, cost less than others - Dahlin, for example. So Hughes and Makar should be at the top, but other guys (Forsling) who have a lower cap allocation should be ranked high too. While others, who eat a lot of cap, should be lower.