NHL: Around the League 53

[GIADF]

They're a pretty good comparison since both play the right side and are separated less than a year in age. I'm not sure what Pionk's next cap hit will look like, but currently he's about 3.6M less of a hit than Jones.

I'd take Pionk plus that savings without thinking twice if given the option.

 

[BHawk21]

Yup. Find me any stat, anything that proves it.

Jones gets by on name recognition only.

Alright bury your head in the sand if you want. The contract has clouded your judgment.

They're a pretty good comparison since both play the right side and are separated less than a year in age. I'm not sure what Pionk's next cap hit will look like, but currently he's about 3.6M less of a hit than Jones.

I'd take Pionk plus that savings without thinking twice if given the option.

What kind of contract is Pionk going to get next year?

Montour got 7.1 for 7 years
Skjei got 7 for 8
Theodore got 7.5 for 7

 

[Hawkaholic]

Alright bury your head in the sand if you want. The contract has clouded your judgment.

Solid argument.

 

[GIADF]

Alright bury your head in the sand if you want. The contract has clouded your judgment.


What kind of contract is Pionk going to get next year?

Not sure, but I'd bet it's less than the Jones contract. He'll also be turning next off season 30 so I'm guessing he gets a 6-year deal at the most, which would only be one more year than what Jones has left.

 

[Callidusblackhawk]

They're a pretty good comparison since both play the right side and are separated less than a year in age. I'm not sure what Pionk's next cap hit will look like, but currently he's about 3.6M less of a hit than Jones.

I'd take Pionk plus that savings without thinking twice if given the option.

There's not going to be all that much savings after this year. The dude is on pace for like 70 points. If that keeps up he's going to get paid.

 

[BHawk21]

You would save like 2 million dollars when we dont need to save any money. Have him for 6-7 years instead of Jones for 5 and be worse (IMO).

Thats if Pionk decides he wants to go to the last place team in the league.

Solid argument.

What stat do you want me to pull that you would argue and twist?

 

[Hawkaholic]

What stat do you want me to pull that you would argue and twist?

Find me any stat, I literally said that. Are you gonna cherry pick 1 or 2, and ignore every other one?

 

[GIADF]

There's not going to be all that much savings after this year. The dude is on pace for like 70 points. If that keeps up he's going to get paid.

70 points obviously is very unlikely to be a sustainable pace for him. Even if it ends up a career year, I would imagine low 50s best case scenario for him given 45 is the most he's ever scored in a single season.

But for me it's less about specifically bringing in him and more so just getting out form the Jones contact if you can. Which is also probably highly unlikely. I'm a firm believer that Jones is going to age really poorly and it's possible the injuries are the start of that.

 

[GIADF]

Never seen a guy fined for diving before, which I'm all in favor of...

Although it's kind of funny that looks more like he just lost his balance and not a blatant dive. But they can't get headshots right, so no way they're going to get diving fines correctly.

 

[BHawk21]

Find me any stat, I literally said that. Are you gonna cherry pick 1 or 2, and ignore every other one?

Im asking you what you want and your already arguing about it.

Find any stat. Your going to cherry pick lmao

 

[Hawkaholic]

Im asking you what you want and your already arguing about it.

Find any stat. Your going to cherry pick lmao

Still waiting

 

[BHawk21]

Still waiting

You can wait as long as you want Im not going into a cherry picking stats debate with you. Seth Jones is a better NHL defenseman than Neil Pionk.

Hes has a great start to the season tho.

 

[BobbyJet]

Solid argument.

It is a solid argument. The contract sucks and every fan would agree but that should have no bearing on what to do with SJ at this point.
In my view keep Seth until someone comes knocking with a good trade offer. Don't shop him.

 

[ColbyChaos]

You guys are acting like he’s Seabrook 2.0 out there. His cap it his high but what we gave up for him ended up being next to nothing, as are most picks and prospects. We got a 45pt, 25 minute a night, top 4 Dman. We got by far the best player in the deal and we don’t have to give top pairing minutes to our young D.

Let the hate go FFS

Also, totally unrelated to my opinion of him…I met him last week. I was backing my baby out in the stroller leaving Ace Hardware and he held the door open for me. I said “hey thanks Seth Jones!”, he said “get the f*** out of my way you loser”…kidding. He said “Anytime man!”

I would buy his jersey in a heartbeat if he actually said that

 

[statswatcher]

It is a solid argument. The contract sucks and every fan would agree but that should have no bearing on what to do with SJ at this point.
In my view keep Seth until someone comes knocking with a good trade offer. Don't shop him.

that's not what an argument is bobby. one person asked another person to substantiate their opinion, and the second responded by refusing to engage other than to poison the well, ironically after accusing the first of burying their head in the sand. it was followed by much insistence that going to the effort of substantiating one's opinion is pointless, and finished up with a barefaced reassertion of the exact proposition at issue.

i hate to be all didactic and shit, but the point of an argument is that it gives premises from which a conclusion is supposed to follow. what was at issue is seth jones' relative skill level compared to neil pionk. you seem to think the discussion was about whether or not seth jones is bad because his contract is bad. even if that were the case (which it isn't), saying that one's interlocutor's judgement is clouded by the bad contract doesn't work as a premise to argue the proposition that jones is the better player. it is an empty assertion that begs the very question that is(n't even) being asked.

here's a small demonstration of a classic syllogistic argument that might help you get this straightened out in your head moving forward:

-premise 1: seth jones is a hockey player
-premise 2: all hockey players skate
-conclusion: ∴ seth jones skates

hope this helps!

 

[Hawkaholic]

You can wait as long as you want Im not going into a cherry picking stats debate with you. Seth Jones is a better NHL defenseman than Neil Pionk.

Hes has a great start to the season tho.

You don't need to cherry pick. There isn't a single stat that agrees with you that Seth is better. He's worse offensively by quite a bit, and worse defensively at almost every measurable statistic.

It is a solid argument. The contract sucks and every fan would agree but that should have no bearing on what to do with SJ at this point.
In my view keep Seth until someone comes knocking with a good trade offer. Don't shop him.

What's a solid argument? He didn't make one lol.

I mean, we have no choice but to keep him, no other team wants him at his price relative to his play.

 

[BobbyJet]

You don't need to cherry pick. There isn't a single stat that agrees with you that Seth is better. He's worse offensively by quite a bit, and worse defensively at almost every measurable statistic.


What's a solid argument? He didn't make one lol.

I mean, we have no choice but to keep him, no other team wants him at his price relative to his play.

So why are you making it such a big deal? Just to get the last word or win an argument?

 

[Crow]

If someone wants to take Seth for something small like a 3rd rounder and if for some reason pionk would come here to this terrible team for mllions less than jones was making and only one year more i guess Id do it.

However, that seems extremely unlikely. Also I don’t really think it would make much of a difference.

 

[Hawkaholic]

So why are you making it such a big deal? Just to get the last word or win an argument?

Making what a big deal? He made an argument, I asked him to prove his argument lol. Wtf are you talking about?

 

[Drumman44]

What would you pay in a trade for Brady Tkachuck?

 

[GIADF]

What would you pay in a trade for Brady Tkachuck?

Korchinski and Leafs 1st rounder as core.

Ottawa probably says no, though.

 

[BobbyJet]

Making what a big deal? He made an argument, I asked him to prove his argument lol. Wtf are you talking about?

It would be refreshing to have a debate that doesn't get confrontational every time.... is all I'm saying. We're all Hawks fans here.

 

[Hawkaholic]

It would be refreshing to have a debate that doesn't get confrontational every time.... is all I'm saying. We're all Hawks fans here.

So we just let people say what they want without backing up their opinion? Lol

 

[Hawkaholic]

Korchinski and Leafs 1st rounder as core.

Ottawa probably says no, though.

If he's unhappy in Ottawa, he'll be more unhappy here. He wants to win.

 

[GIADF]

If he's unhappy in Ottawa, he'll be more unhappy here. He wants to win.

I agree 100%. We probably aren’t a consideration if he has a say in his destination. I can’t remember his NTC/NMC situation off memory but think he has some say.

But in the crazy hypothetical he would consider us, that’s as good of a package as I’d like to see them offer.