NHL: Around the League 52

[ColbyChaos]

Imitation is a form of flattery or something along those lines

 

[HeisenBaez]

Imitation is a form of flattery or something along those lines

More like imititation is a lazy form of creation.

 

[ClydeLee]

I don't like any of the teams from the west now

 

[thedarkstark]

I know this is 14 years too late but can we get a petition or a lawsuit going to force Stan Bowman to give his Championship rings to Dale Tallon??

What a f***ing piece of shit dumspter fire GM.

 

[HeisenBaez]

And its over

Panthers vs Rangers should be fun

Now what will be more fun is for the Rangers (and Knicks) both fall short reaching the Finals.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

I know this is 14 years too late but can we get a petition or a lawsuit going to force Stan Bowman to give his Championship rings to Dale Tallon??

What a f***ing piece of shit dumspter fire GM.

?

If Tallon would not have been fired we would have ended up with Havlat signed longterm and no Hossa

IMO that alone would have denied Hawks any cups

Not to mention the idea of Tallon navigating cap apocalypse

Both were shitty GMs in own right but I don't believe Hawks win a single cup if Tallon had remained GM honestly

 

[Pez68]

I know this is 14 years too late but can we get a petition or a lawsuit going to force Stan Bowman to give his Championship rings to Dale Tallon??

What a f***ing piece of shit dumspter fire GM.

Zero cups won with Tallon at the helm. Tallon's greatest accomplishment was building the Vegas Golden Knights core.

 

[Mrfenn92]

 

[BobbyJet]

?

If Tallon would not have been fired we would have ended up with Havlat signed longterm and no Hossa

IMO that alone would have denied Hawks any cups

Not to mention the idea of Tallon navigating cap apocalypse

Both were shitty GMs in own right but I don't believe Hawks win a single cup if Tallon had remained GM honestly

That's not the point and it's pure speculation on your part.

The point was Tallon did more to build the winning team than Stan could ever dream of. Stan inherited it, and rode its success for the Cup years. It took him a few years to ruin the franchise for who knows how long. Some of us saw Stan for what he was - most didn't until the damage was done.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

That's not the point and it's pure speculation on your part.

The point was Tallon did more to build the winning team than Stan could ever dream of. Stan inherited it, and rode its success for the Cup years. It took him a few years to ruin the franchise for who knows how long. Some of us saw Stan for what he was - most didn't until the damage was done.

Tallon inherited from Mike Smith

Future HOF defender (Duncan Keith)
Future top pairing defender (Brent Seabrook)
Future power forward/top 4 defender (Dustin Byfuglien)
Future star goalie (Corey Crawford)

And from the lone Bob Pulford interim draft

Future 3rd line rat/pest (Dave Bolland)
Future top 9 RW (Troy Brouwer)
Future top 9 LW (Bryan Bickell)

And Tallon's draft record was absolutely abysmal with Hawks. He was saved by having Toews fall in his lap and winning lotto for Kane. Hammer was only non-top 3 Tallon pick that amounted to anything (Forgot about Kruger, That worked out for Hawks as well)

Tallon certainly deserves credit for several shrewd trades (Sharp, Versteeg) but Bowman also made some good draft picks and trades + Had better track record with FA's then Tallon

Hawks 2009-2015 success was a combination of 4 different GM's work

 

[deytookerjaabs]

Bowman likely ignored the future based on decisions that may or may not have been his.

With a contender he drafted Kevin Hayes, Danault, Saad, Shaw, Teuvo, Hartman, DeBrincat plus signed Panarin.

If the Hawks were intelligent about letting some of the core go in a timely fashion who knows what Bowman's reputation would be. Some really stupid moves were made under him but they were so bad one wonders what was going on behind the scenes.

 

[Pez68]

The 2013 and 2015 cup wins are pretty much all a result of Bowman moves. The revisionist history is hilarious.

I'm glad enough time has passed since the last time we had this argument that certain posters have completely forgotten it ever took place. Again.

How many times do we need to discuss this?

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Oh, Stanley certainly was disastrous at giving away young talent

That he deserves very much flak for. And it can't be blamed on Mcd or anyone else because he continued to do it after he won power struggle

Hell we lost Forsling + Joker because of his idiotic appeasing of his shitty handpicked coach

 

[deytookerjaabs]

Oh, Stanley certainly was disastrous at giving away young talent

That he deserves very much flak for. And it can't be blamed on Mcd or anyone else because he continued to do it after he won power struggle

Hell we lost Forsling + Joker because of his idiotic appeasing of his shitty handpicked coach

I don't pretend to know how things shake down. But if you simply look at the Jones trade it's like the most pathetic attempt at staying relevant aka polishing a turd. When you look at the Seabrook signing, most here agreed he was about cooked when that contract happened. Maybe the Wirtz's were or weren't involved. It's certainly not odd for owners in pro sports to meddle in everything. But maybe it was all Bowman's idea. I'm just saying a lot of these moves looked like attempts at appeasement from a distance.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Frankly Mike Smith deserves far better treatment in hindsight

His first draft was disaster with Yakubov/Radulov gambles, Babchuk turned out to be disappointing and Munro was bad pick but he hit pretty well all things considered during his tenure as Hawks GM with finding NHL talent

Guys drafted by Smith who played at least 150 NHL games (Not counting playoffs)

G Craig Anderson = Won 319 NHL games
G Corey Crawford = Won 260 NHL games and multiple cups
C/W Tuomo Ruutu
LW Chris Porter
RW Adam Burish
D Duncan Keith
D Brent Seabrook
D Dustin Byfuglien
D James Wisniewski
D Anton Babchuk
D Lasse Kukkonen

And Smith was more than validated in his drafting of net out strategy

While Munro failed both Crawford and Anderson clearly proved good picks and then on D he drafted 3 outstanding top 4 defenders including a future HOF and then several guys who had moments like Wisniewski/Babchuk/Kukkonen at NHL level

Now to be fair Byfuglien he took because a scout really wanted him and he had concerns about his size (As did all the rest of NHL) but it's those gambles GM's take with picks listening to scouts that make or break them at draft table

I don't pretend to know how things shake down. But if you simply look at the Jones trade it's like the most pathetic attempt at staying relevant aka polishing a turd. When you look at the Seabrook signing, most here agreed he was about cooked when that contract happened. Maybe the Wirtz's were or weren't involved. It's certainly not odd for owners in pro sports to meddle in everything. But maybe it was all Bowman's idea. I'm just saying a lot of these moves looked like attempts at appeasement from a distance.

Actually most thought it was a contract that would age badly but didn't expect him to fall off cliff quickly. People thought we would get still several years of productive play from Seabrook before the fall

That is revisionist history

 

[x Tame Impala]

I remember my main pro-Seabrook arguments was, if we didn't sign him we'd only have Kieth and Hjalmarsson as a D core and at least Seabrook would be a solid top 4 for us. Also, his contract was a big ol' thank you for 3 Cups and 2 WCF appearances.

He was only 31 when that contract kicked in, I thought he'd still have 3 or so decent years ahead of him.

 

[ClydeLee]

Bowman likely ignored the future based on decisions that may or may not have been his.

With a contender he drafted Kevin Hayes, Danault, Saad, Shaw, Teuvo, Hartman, DeBrincat plus signed Panarin.

If the Hawks were intelligent about letting some of the core go in a timely fashion who knows what Bowman's reputation would be. Some really stupid moves were made under him but they were so bad one wonders what was going on behind the scenes.

The actual problem with your first point is he probably should of done that sooner. 16-17 he should of been harder at buying in and making a play before Hossa/Keith weren't making the impact anymore.

The retool path could of been done way better and still lead to no success. If he was going hard like Breisbois and maybe they got to another final but lost, that would of been a better legacy.

 

[deytookerjaabs]

Actually most thought it was a contract that would age badly but didn't expect him to fall off cliff quickly. People thought we would get still several years of productive play from Seabrook before the fall

That is revisionist history

Well, I didn't expect him to last much longer given the eye test, he picked up his game in 2015 but in 2014 he looked rough and had played so many minutes up to that point it was hard to imagine him having a lot left in the tank. I think the term of that contract was damn near universally scoffed at. And, it was funny to see how many minds were changed from the second the contract was signed fall 2015 to the spring of 2016.

 

[ColbyChaos]

That's not the point and it's pure speculation on your part.

The point was Tallon did more to build the winning team than Stan could ever dream of. Stan inherited it, and rode its success for the Cup years. It took him a few years to ruin the franchise for who knows how long. Some of us saw Stan for what he was - most didn't until the damage was done.

Clown post. Both Bowman and Tallon were assistants to Pulford when the majority of the 2010 team was acquired/drafted.

Tallon didn’t draft Keith, Seabrook, Hjalmarsson, Crawford, Byfuglien etc if you want to deny Bowman any credit for 2010.

We don’t win in 2013 and 2015 without Bowman being able to add players like Saad, Oduya, Darling, Hanszeus, Teravainen, Leddy, and all the other depth guys that had to be added.

Tallon almost had the team implode before their first cup due to his f*** up with the RFAs which saw Versteeg, Byfuglien, Brouwer, Barker, Eager, Crawford, among others become UFAs instead of RFAs resulting in every one of them getting more money than they would have.

 

[x Tame Impala]

Can't believe the Oilers are starting Skinner tonight. Pickard deserves the net again

 

[Blackhawks]

I know this is 14 years too late but can we get a petition or a lawsuit going to force Stan Bowman to give his Championship rings to Dale Tallon??

What a f***ing piece of shit dumspter fire GM.

Piece of garbage indeed

 

[BobbyJet]

Clown post. Both Bowman and Tallon were assistants to Pulford when the majority of the 2010 team was acquired/drafted.

Tallon didn’t draft Keith, Seabrook, Hjalmarsson, Crawford, Byfuglien etc if you want to deny Bowman any credit for 2010.

We don’t win in 2013 and 2015 without Bowman being able to add players like Saad, Oduya, Darling, Hanszeus, Teravainen, Leddy, and all the other depth guys that had to be added.

Tallon almost had the team implode before their first cup due to his f*** up with the RFAs which saw Versteeg, Byfuglien, Brouwer, Barker, Eager, Crawford, among others become UFAs instead of RFAs resulting in every one of them getting more money than they would have.

For the record, I wasn't the one who made the point about Tallon - I was the guy who had to explain his point. But, TBH I could care less ...... however I had my doubt about Stan from day 1 and feared that Stan was riding on his Daddy's coat tails and was not qualified to GM this team. It turned out to be worse than I had feared.

 

[deytookerjaabs]

Oilers/Nucks a slopfest so far and at middling speed considering it's an elimination game. The announcers falling all over themselves to talk about how great the passing and speed has been.

 

[BobbyJet]

How the hell is that goaltender interference when the Oiler player is ridden into him all the way by the Canucks dman? Awful call and Oilers are too scared to risk a penalty to challenge.

It looks like the league has returned to the days that if you put a baby toe in the crease any contact with the goalie will be called back. It doesn't matter that the player was pushed into the goalie. I hated it back then, and I hate it now.

 

[Hattrick Kane]

How the hell is that goaltender interference when the Oiler player is ridden into him all the way by the Canucks dman? Awful call and Oilers are too scared to risk a penalty to challenge.

It looks like the league has returned to the days that if you put a baby toe in the crease any contact with the goalie will be called back. It doesn't matter that the player was pushed into the goalie. I hated it back then, and I hate it now.

McDavid jumped, it’s actually charging.