OT: NFL/Patriots 2016 Thread - 10-2

[DKH]

Yeah the reports kept changing


I have no idea wtf they are doing unless Jamie Collins murdered a puppy or something

Unfathomably bad deal IMO. Definitely something going on behind the scenes. Only explanation

My take is they've approached Collins about an extension and it's not going to happen.

He hasn't played to level expected and missed time this year.

He may be indifferent and there are stories he and Patricia had a shouting match in front of the team

My guess is they didn't shop him and Bill sent him to a team that can't hurt NE this year and will likely franchise him

From my view just a football perspective this blows

I also don't but In Bill We Trust.

Viniteari likely would have nailed that FG before the half against the Giants in 2007 season SB and also not shanked kickoff prior to that they gave Giants ball at 40 and led to this horrific call by his Highness

Deion Branch in 2006 was exactly what they needed in the game against the Colts they blew 21-3 lead

Ty Law letting go terrible

I could go on and on - he's screwed up plenty. Adam Vinatieri on 2007 they go 19-0

 

[DKH]

Beginning to wonder if the Vikings have done it to me again.

Lou become a Pats fan. It's fun. You get to tell people to **** off and tell them their opinion means zero to you- tell some other *****

 

[smithformeragent]

Beginning to wonder if the Vikings have done it to me again.

Hopefully they figure it out.
I like the Vikings and am rooting for Bradford.
I'd like to see them do well.

At least the Packers keep losing.

 

[LouJersey]

Lou become a Pats fan. It's fun. You get to tell people to **** off and tell them their opinion means zero to you- tell some other *****

I wish I did. I always liked Steve Grogan and Stanley Morgan.

 

[LouJersey]

Hopefully they figure it out.
I like the Vikings and am rooting for Bradford.
I'd like to see them do well.

At least the Packers keep losing.

Thanks dude. Bradford missing on TDs just isn't good.

I hate the Packers too, they can't lose enough.

 

[Therick67]

My take is they've approached Collins about an extension and it's not going to happen.

He hasn't played to level expected and missed time this year.

He may be indifferent and there are stories he and Patricia had a shouting match in front of the team

My guess is they didn't shop him and Bill sent him to a team that can't hurt NE this year and will likely franchise him

From my view just a football perspective this blows

I also don't but In Bill We Trust.

Viniteari likely would have nailed that FG before the half against the Giants in 2007 season SB and also not shanked kickoff prior to that they gave Giants ball at 40 and led to this horrific call by his Highness

Deion Branch in 2006 was exactly what they needed in the game against the Colts they blew 21-3 lead

Ty Law letting go terrible

I could go on and on - he's screwed up plenty. Adam Vinatieri on 2007 they go 19-0

You're right, this franchise needs to move on from belichick ASAP. Yup, he screws up, he also makes cold hearted des ions and wins

Also, comparing the criticism the Bruins get compared to the patriots is silly, they've had almost as much success in 15 years as the Bruins have in 90 plus years.

 

[Therick67]

If Sweeney made this I would need to hope that legalized marajauna question passed so I could get in the only state of mind that I could rationalize this.

Listening to Patriots fans defend this on the radio is hilarious. I wrote down a bunch of great excuses I can use over the next year when things go wrong

That's because Don Sweeney hasn't won a thing and isn't considered the best anything.

 

[DKH]

You're right, this franchise needs to move on from belichick ASAP. Yup, he screws up, he also makes cold hearted des ions and wins

Also, comparing the criticism the Bruins get compared to the patriots is silly, they've had almost as much success in 15 years as the Bruins have in 90 plus years.

I forgot some think Bill is perfect. I missed the part you can't crticize him.

Where the **** did I say move on from him ASAP I missed that

 

[DKH]

That's because Don Sweeney hasn't won a thing and isn't considered the best anything.

And your mother wears army boots

 

[DKH]

This place has zero.zero sense of humor

So much better years ago when this team sucked and no one cared

 

[Therick67]

I forgot some think Bill is perfect. I missed the part you can't crticize him.

Where the **** did I say move on from him ASAP I missed that

Every time he makes a move fans overreact and somehow the patriots overcome his incompetence.

Go ahead and criticize, but you seem to take issue when anyone does it to the immortal Don Sweeney, who by my count hasn't won a thing yet.

 

[Therick67]

And your mother wears army boots

Sorry Don, didn't mean to hurt your feelings

 

[Fossy21]

Brady is 2nd in yards per game with 329.8 yards to Brees's 338. Brees has 44 attempts per game to Brady's 33.5. Brady leads the NFL in completion rate and passer rating. And the old man who can't throw a long ball averages 9.8 yards per attempt - of course this also to lead the league. Sure, having a lot of YAC beasts (even without Lewis) out there helps, but he's also been more willing to throw deep, and with one or two exceptions has been deadly accurate (even having a 47 yard pass to Jules called back only to score on the next play with a 53 yarder). All of this with no turnovers (of course, in only 4 games - but given that the most imposing of the defences he didn't get to play was the very team he burned in their building last night, and it felt like the coaching staff held him back against the Steelers)

Initially only meant to make the point about yard per attempt, but I couldn't resist. With the bye week, I feel confident I can post this highly fanboy post without having to worry about jinxing him.

 

[riverhawkey91]

Every time he makes a move fans overreact and somehow the patriots overcome his incompetence.

Go ahead and criticize, but you seem to take issue when anyone does it to the immortal Don Sweeney, who by my count hasn't won a thing yet.

It is possible to love and believe in Belichick and still criticize some of his choices, you know.

Lost in all of this with Collins is how much worse the Chandler Jones trade looks. It made sense when he was the odd guy out, but now that Collins is gone, the money could have theoretically been there to keep him. Meanwhile, the Pats pass rush is nonexistent, and that was before moving a solid pass-rushing LB. Thuney and Mitchell have looked good, but Cooper was obviously cut, and there could have been other ways to get them without giving up Jones.

For most of the non-extremists, it boils down to having to take the good with the bad with Bill. Sometimes you trade a solid LB for essentially a 4th rounder and look stupid, and other times you pass on shelling out huge money to re-sign an elite CB in favor of a kid with no starts and look like a genius.

 

[Fossy21]

Not what the Vikes needed, so close to an INT earlier on the drive.

 

[JRull86]

Bill has done plenty of things that are questionable and they don't always work out. Deion Branch in 2006 being #1 in my book.

That being said, the guy has by far and away been the best coach in this league going on almost two decades. If he makes a decision like this, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. It's not like he traded Brady midseason. People obviously are in their right to criticize, but for every decision like Branch, he has plenty that work out foe him.

Jamie Collins is a nice player, but he's not Von Miller, he's not Luke Keuchly. He's someone who seemingly beats to his own drum, and as we've seen time and time again, that doesn't fly here.

I wish him well, but I hardly see this as as big of a loss as some here do. Does it hurt their depth? Obviously. But if he was a player that they couldn't get on board with what they were doing, then cut bait before if becomes a distraction.

 

[JRull86]

This team also is going to live and die by their offense. If yhey struggle, their defense with or without collins wasn't going to win a game for them.

 

[Johnnyduke]

Your posts on the matter have all been pretty astounding. This takes the cake though...
If we were to concede the frankly laughable implication that there could be anything to this in theory: You just mentioned Gronk being the best tight end ever. Gost is (at least at the time was) one of the best kickers in the game (an underrated position that wins or loses games every gameday). Are Collins or even Jones in that territory?

Oh, and if we ignore the reasons behind Brady taking a team-friendly restructure he, to the best of my knowledge, is almost certainly (more probable than not) white. And he's your number 1 example of someone who deserved to get paid. Yikes. Hope I'm missing something here.

He has a history of playing race card. He's on at least his 3rd user name.

 

[Johnnyduke]

Exactly that.

The reason the Patriots have been the model franchise and dynasty in football/am.sports for the last 15 years is, because Bill respects one important rule that usually leads to success when you are a coach/gm: don't ever fall in love with players
Easier said than done, almost nobody is able to do that, not coaches, not gms and certainly not fans.

Do you guys really think that Bill shipped him out just because of his ego or the unsuccessful contract negotiations? No way in hell.
He obviously felt that we had better options on the team than Collins.

Belichick deserves the benefit of the doubt. He knows exactly how to handle the tough cap-rules, he always has. You just cannot overpay anyone on your team and expect to stay good forever, at some point you will run into trouble. Pats have managed to dodge that, thanks to Bill.

It was probably the best decision for each party. If Bill was unhappy with Collins' play and was about to replace him or cut his playing time and Jamie is known to seek the biggest dollars on the market, I think he would have (or already has) taken exception to his reduced role.

I just can't comprehend anyone, even bill, thinking we have better options than collins right now. Bill might be thinking that they can win without collins but we clearly don't have better options to replace him right now.

 

[Ten Thousand Hours]

I just can't comprehend anyone, even bill, thinking we have better options than collins right now. Bill might be thinking that they can win without collins but we clearly don't have better options to replace him right now.

I could see how Roberts/Mingo/Van Noy are better options than an unhappy Collins though, and I'm guessing that's what it came down to.

 

[EverettMike]

I forgot some think Bill is perfect. I missed the part you can't crticize him.

Where the **** did I say move on from him ASAP I missed that

I know how frustrating it is when someone treats an executive like that.

 

[Ten Thousand Hours]

It is possible to love and believe in Belichick and still criticize some of his choices, you know.

Lost in all of this with Collins is how much worse the Chandler Jones trade looks. It made sense when he was the odd guy out, but now that Collins is gone, the money could have theoretically been there to keep him. Meanwhile, the Pats pass rush is nonexistent, and that was before moving a solid pass-rushing LB. Thuney and Mitchell have looked good, but Cooper was obviously cut, and there could have been other ways to get them without giving up Jones.

For most of the non-extremists, it boils down to having to take the good with the bad with Bill. Sometimes you trade a solid LB for essentially a 4th rounder and look stupid, and other times you pass on shelling out huge money to re-sign an elite CB in favor of a kid with no starts and look like a genius.

I don't think this makes the Jones trade look worse. It wasn't an either or. It was "Is Jones gonna be worth it? Yes/no. Is Collins gonna be worth it? Yes/no."

And I really don't see how people can second guess Belichick at this point. With the benefit of hindsight? Sure. But to think anyone (especially someone on the outside, especially a fan) knows better is ridiculous. I'm not saying he'll never be wrong, but second guessing him is a very losing battle.

 

[Fossy21]

He has a history of playing race card. He's on at least his 3rd user name.

Had a feeling that might be the case. Recognised the tone, just couldn't pinpoint it.

 

[Johnnyduke]

Never understood hindsight argument. Sometimes it takes time to see who won a deal and then the scoreboard tells you the results. I have no problem with people questioning bill. He is phenomenal at what he does but still deserves to be questioned over things like this.

 

[Johnnyduke]

No point in ever talking about any draft picks, signings, trades, in game coaching decisions if it's just gonna be in bill we trust.