Next Non-McDavid Art Ross winner

[jigglysquishy]

I would say its pretty relevant. Its the last non McDavid Art Ross. Draisaitl is as good of a player now as he was in 2020.

You clearly like old data, as you liked a comment from 3on0 referencing Draisaitls productions without McDavid in 2015-16.

I just don't think an 11 game sample size from 4 years ago has much relevance.

 

[McPoyle]

I just don't think an 11 game sample size from 4 years ago has much relevance.

His play away from McDavid over the last 5 years in those 11 games is more relevant than his play away from rookie McDavid in 15-16. If you disagree with that then I don't know what to say.

Its a double standard to buy into 3on0's 49 points in 49 gp argument (in which the large majority of the sample comes from 2015-16) and then dispute me bringing up Draisaitl's play when McDavid was not 100%/missing from the lineup in 2019-20.

 

[rynryn]

Wild fan, in pain, predicting Bedard. :'(

 

[FlameChampion]

Idk. Whos the best 12 year old player at the moment.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

McDavid had 40 more points than the next non Oiler player. He could miss a third of the season and still win it.
I don’t see anyone currently in the NHL catching him anytime soon even with an injury. Maybe Berard at some point.

 

[KevinRedkey]

20yr old McDavid beat 29yr old Crosby

I think 20yr old Bedard has the potential to challenge a 29yr old McDavid, so I went with him.

 

[authentic]

If anyone besides Mcdavid wins it this year it will be Matthews, as far as I'm concerned Matthews is the #2 player in the world, the only other player I'd consider for #2 player in the world is Makar but he's not winning the scoring title.

Cale Makar is incredible though.



Bedard will do it, not this year because he's got Taylor Hall and not much else.

You’re forgetting MacKinnon if he can play a full 82. Led the league in ES points last season. Overall people are underrating what a healthy Matthews could do on this Leafs team this year. This will the best offense in the league and Matthews will rack up the goals and points if he can go without hurting himself again.

 

[Regal]

His play away from McDavid over the last 5 years in those 11 games is more relevant than his play away from rookie McDavid in 15-16. If you disagree with that then I don't know what to say.

Its a double standard to buy into 3on0's 49 points in 49 gp argument (in which the large majority of the sample comes from 2015-16) and then dispute me bringing up Draisaitl's play when McDavid was not 100%/missing from the lineup in 2019-20.

It’s a lot easier to keep pace in small samples though. I think if McDavid misses 20 games or so, Draisaitl is the likely favourite. If he misses 40, I think it’s a lot more wide open. Outside of 19-20, his ES minutes away from McDavid haven’t been at a level that would likely win the Art Ross. And part of that is that the team lacks support compared to the situation some other stars find themselves in, but that’s not going to change with McDavid out.

 

[McFlash97]

Draisaitl is the leagues 2nd most dominant forward. It's not really all that close.

Size
Strength
Accuracy
Shot.
Strong on his skates
Insane passing ability.

Just look at what happens in the playoffs when all these things matter.

He goes supernova

 

[McFlash97]

Because it better fits the false narrative. Without McDavid the trophy race opens wide up. It goes from an almost McDavid guarantee to a 5-7 person race

 

[Mike C]

Mcdavid's son.

He banged Mrs Hughes?

 

[bobholly39]

His play away from McDavid over the last 5 years in those 11 games is more relevant than his play away from rookie McDavid in 15-16. If you disagree with that then I don't know what to say.

Its a double standard to buy into 3on0's 49 points in 49 gp argument (in which the large majority of the sample comes from 2015-16) and then dispute me bringing up Draisaitl's play when McDavid was not 100%/missing from the lineup in 2019-20.

Neither sample is that relevant. That's the point.

McDavid has been very healthy in his prime. Drai too. Which means, Drai hasn't really had a season he had to play without McDavid healthy and around. 8 games is nowhere near the same as a full season.

If McDavid misses all year to injury - there's a very strong chance it negatively affects Drai's production.

Why are you even arguing that? That is like common sense 101 to me. I bet you Draisaitl's mother agrees with me to.

There's certainly a chance Draisaitl could step up and do as good/better without McDavid - but it's also quite likely his production suffers. If it does suffers - guys like MacKinnon, Kucherov or others would have a strong chance to beat him to a Ross.

 

[blundluntman]

If McDavid missed significant time in the next 2 years or so, I'd say it's a foot race between Mackinnon and Draisaitl, Hughes being a dark horse.

I do believe if McDavid missed a significant amount of games, maybe 30, Draisaitl's numbers would go down a bit. I'm aware he's done well without him but the sample size is very small so who knows how things would play out over a full season. Mackinnon basically equaled Draisaitl last year when he had McDavid so I'd probably expect Mackinnon to beat him out by a couple of points. Hughes has a good chance to score around 110 points in his prime so he's defintiely a candidate as well.

2-3 years down the road, I could see Bedard scoring around 120 points so he'd probably be a good pick in thef distant future.

As far as scoring finishes, I'd rank it like this: Mackinnon > Draisaitl > Hughes > The field.

Edit: I forgot about Matthews. He'd be in the mix as well, I'm not too sure where to place him.

Draisaitl is the leagues 2nd most dominant forward. It's not really all that close.

Size
Strength
Accuracy
Shot.
Strong on his skates
Insane passing ability.

Just look at what happens in the playoffs when all these things matter.

He goes supernova

It's definitely close. He has a good argument for #2 certainly but he's not in a completely different stratosphere.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Matthews will more likely never win an Art Ross in his career.

People said the same thing about the Hart Trophy

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

People said the same thing about the Hart Trophy

Sure. Doesn't change the fact of what I said.

 

[TLEH]

To me its Draisaitl.

 

[tsujimoto74]

Honestly, it’s hard to imagine another player winning it while McDavid is still in his 20s unless he misses significant time to injury.

 

[North Cole]

I just don't think an 11 game sample size from 4 years ago has much relevance.

Of course it doesn't, just like the extra 30 games from 8 years ago had little relevance, which is why that was a dumb take by that poster. 49 games sample is much bigger than 11 is giant red herring. Both sample sizes are irrelevant.

 

[Video Nasty]

The voting results are mostly reasonable. As usual, it’s the vocal minority commenting who are the issue.

Draisaitl has earned the benefit of the doubt and there’s no reason for him to be punished, not when some of these same posters jump through a dozen hoops for other players when trying to convince why they could ever be a scoring race threat when taking McDavid out of the equation.

Matthews? He’s topped 85 points once. Yes, I understand the beloved pace and shortened seasons, but he has no business being mentioned. Not when he has a lone top 5 finished (shared with two other players).

Hughes? My jaw hasn’t hit the floor just yet over one 99 point 12th place finish.

I’ve already noticed the posters who’ve exposed themselves over time that they haven’t watched the Oilers actually play, so their analysis of Drai isn’t particularly inspiring.

20yr old McDavid beat 29yr old Crosby

I think 20yr old Bedard has the potential to challenge a 29yr old McDavid, so I went with him.

27 and 28 year old Crosby finished behind Benn twice, Tavares, and got annihilated by Kane, so he was already on the decline by the completion of McDavid’s rookie season.

Meanwhile, McDavid will turn 27 midway through this season and has just come off a 153 point/40 point gap over closest non-teammate Art Ross where only 2 players in the top 30 missed more than 4 games (MacKinnon with 11 and Matthews with 8) while also scoring the most goals in the league.

I’m super high on Bedard, but Crosby being a lesser talent than McDavid has no bearing on the time frame for when he could pass McDavid.

If McDavid stays healthy, it won’t remotely surprise me to see him win as many Art Rosses inside his 30s as Gretzky and Lemieux did combined (x4).

If that ends up happening and Bedard is the player I think he is, we could very well be lamenting 8 seasons deep into his career that if it weren’t for playing in the same league as one of the Big Five, he’d actually have won one before the age of 26.

But ultimately, I can meet one halfway and agree that it is safe to only look 3 seasons ahead when trying to predict what kind of drop off McDavid might have and what that might mean for a talent like Bedard who we hope to see hit the ground running and take off like a Rocket.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

For the next couple of years, assuming McDavid is injured for a significant period:
If McDavid misses a third of the season or more it’s wide open.
If McDavid misses a quarter of the season or so it’s probably Draisaitl.
If McDavid misses less time it’s probably McDavid with Draisaitl having a chance.

 

[GOilers88]

As hockey fans, can we all just take a moment to appreciate the fact that this poll occurs under the idea that one player in the league needs to miss significant time, ever, in order for anyone to consider the possibility there could even be any other name etched on the trophy.

That's insane and amazing at the same time.

 

[M2Beezy]

Draisaitl. Comfortably #2 in scoring since McDavid's Art Ross dominance began. Healthy as an ox and still pretty young.

Hes not that young anymore. Im still younger than him ffs

 

[Coffey]

Draisaitl plays on the powerplay with a top two powerplay player on all time and by far the best player in the league.

He was 13th in EVP last year. That's very vulnerable.

Vulnerable like Lemieux when he won the Art Rosses with a PPP% share of 48%, 40%, 36%, 49%?

The trophy doesn't ask how you got 'em, only how many.

 

[waitin425]

Voted Bedard. If McDavid stays healthy, he will win it until he ages out. At which point it will be Bedard. All others, Drai, Kuch, MacKinnon, Matthews will have aged out of their prime by then as well. The only one I see challenging Bedard is Hughes.

If McDavid were to get injured, then my vote would be Drai.

 

[Seanaconda]

I voted drai but kucherov imo deserves to be second