Next country to have a couple of golden years?

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Finns are known for their humility. Seriously though, Dubois is an awesome hockey player. He likely goes #1 in 2011 and 2012. He's got unreal skill and is 6'3 200+ pounds. His game fits the NHL so well. Edmonton has no problem taking him at #4.

The fact that Dubois plays Centre and that is a need for Columbus is the basis for Dubois going #3 more than Columbus having a Finnish GM. Based on the skill of Dubois and the needs of Columbus it wouldn't be shocking to see him go #3 to Columbus. If the GM wants Dubois and will let Pulju slip to #4 to give McDavid his Kurri, I'm all for it :).

Austria and Hungary should keep up the hockey rivalry. It's good for the fans and good for the sport. Canada has a huge rivalry with Russia and the USA, but lots of respect both ways.

Hockey is a form of diplomacy between Russia, the USA, and Canada. We hate each other on the ice and are huge rivals, but from that rivalry we have huge respect for each other. Canada almost hates the USA more in international hockey than they do the Russians.

With Russia and Canada it is more a form of mutual admiration as international rivals. We both recognize that we make each other better. Ask your average Russian hockey fan about what they think of Canada and hockey, or ask your average Canadian fan what they think about Russia and hockey and you will see my point.

Hopefully Austria-Hungary gets that rivalry in international hockey.

Lol half the Russians in Sochi and this year are wearing Canada gear. I kept being like "hey where are you from?" And some guy or girl wearing a maple leaf crest responds, "Russia."

Like oh okay.

Canada is like a brand, like Brazil or Barcelona in soccer.

As for the US, well .... Nobody roots for them. None
 
Barkov, Laine, Pulju, Ristolainen, Aho etc are stars/superstars ? Lol...tbh they are not yet proven and still consider above average ice skaters. 1 or 2 games of exceptional plays doesn't mean you are superstars, probably wannabe.

I'll take Karlsson, Landeskog, OEL, Lehner, Klingberg, Larsson, Forsberg, Zibanejad, Brodin etc anytime.

Maybe you pay attention to the text that others are writing? He wrote future stars/superstars...
 
If we are talking literally golden years, it won't be anyone outside of the Top 6 in the near future IMO.

The best the rest of the pack can hope for is something like Slovakia/Switzerland at the Worlds in 2012 and 2013.

If we are talking about the rest of the pack, I thought it might be interesting to look at some actual stats, as a lot has been said about those teams in this thread.

I only covered the countries which are permanent members of the elite IHWC, so sorry to the likes of Hungary and Kazakhstan.

First let's look at the NHL. The following table list the number of draftees for each country in the years 2011-2015 and the number of players aged 25 and under (players born in 1991 and later qualify) who appeared in the NHL and AHL in the 2015/2016 season.

NHL.jpg


In terms of the draft, Switzerland and Slovakia are tied for most draftees in this time period (both 14), followed by Latvia with 8 and Denmark and Germany with 5 and 4 respectively.

Switzerland has had the most 1st rounders with 4, followed by Denmark with 2 and Slovakia, Latvia and Germany have also had one.

Switzerland also leads with the number of players picked within the top 100 of the recent NHL drafts with 8, followed by Slovakia with 5 and Latvia and Denmark who have had 4 each.

The bottom of the table belongs to Belarus and France.

Slovakia has had 5 players who suited up for an NHL team thsi season, followed by Germany with 4, while Latvia and Switzerland have had 3 each and Denmark had one.

In the AHL Switzerland led with 8 players, followed by Latvia with 5, Slovakia Germany and Belarus al had 3, while Denmark had one.

France and Norway are the two countries who haven't had a player of this category in either league this season.

international.jpg


At the WJC, Slovakia and Switzerland are the only two countries who have made an appearance at all last 6 elite tournaments. Slovakai edges out Switzerland with 6 top 8 finishes compared to the Swiss 4, both also have 2 top 6 finishes, one of which is a 3rd place for Slovakia.

Germany made 4 appearances at the elite level but had a terrible showing this year. Denmark is the only other team asides from SVK/SUI to reach the top 8. Belarus and France are once again at the end of the table but Belarus' results have improved in the last couple of years, while France is a level below everyone else in this age group.

At the u18 level, Switzerland is ahead of everyone, finishing within the top 8 6 out of 6 times and adding to top 6 finishes including a semifinal berth last year.

Slovakia and Germany both have 5 appearances, Germany has 3 top 8 finishes compared to Slovakia's 2. But while Slovakia has improved its rank each of the last 4 years, Germany's result has declined in each of the past years.

Denmark and Latvia have established themselves as elevator nations in this age group.

Norway, Belarus and France are at the bottom of the table, with Belarus once again displaying a positive trend in the past couple of years while Norway displayed a negative one.

europe.jpg


This last table shows the number of players aged 25 and under each country has had in top European leagues this past season. It might not be saying that much given that the results are influenced by several countries having their own KHL teams (case of Belarus, Latvia and Slovakia), Slovakia's proximity to Czech republic and last but not least the fact that the NLA is a Swiss league.

Furthermore both these numbers as well as the NHL/AHL numbers are taken from eliteprospects and might not reflect reality 100%. For example there are 2 SHL players showing for Slovakia (Cehlarik and Jaros) but Fehervary also has played a few SHL games. On the other hand it's possible that some players with a similar number of games are counted. But it would take forever to check it all, so let's just assume that this fact is equally unfair to everyone. :laugh:

Overall I would say that Switzerland and Slovakia are still the two behind the top 6, with Switzerland having the edge in some areas right now. They are probably still most likely to make it to the medal round and can even make it at the junior levels (Switzerland 4th at the 2015 u18 IHWC, Slovakia 3rd at the 2015 WJC). Latvia and Denmark have their own little group right behind them though, edging their way into being permanent members of the top 10 at the junior levels.

Germany is hard to judge as they are perhaps the most inconsistent. Belarus seems to have made some improvements in the most recent years, while Norway seems to have fallen down.

I would say that both the Norwegian and the French men's NTs have reached their primes in recent years and I don't think that anything indicates that they should be climbing up. But who knows...
 
@Slovakiasnextone. First of all, without going into the biases in data collection that I suspect, you have to admit that your data has some serious flaws that are blatantly wrong. Denmark has 1 U25 NHL player and 1 U25 AHL player despite having Jensen, Bjorkstrand, and Ehlers. Then under Danish SHLers you have a big fat 0 but the parameter was players who have "suited up" so do Emil Kristensen, Magnus Molge and Morten Jensen not exist? Collector's bias is one thing but blatant statistical error makes the conclusion of your research hard to reach on my own as an observer. Also, only 4 Latvians (Blueger, Bukarts, Jevpalovs, and Kenins) have suited up for an AHL team in the last season. I'm sure there's more error but I think that's enough, you probably need to go back and do a quick fact check on all your numbers.
 
@Slovakiasnextone. Also, only 4 Latvians (Blueger, Bukarts, Jevpalovs, and Kenins) have suited up for an AHL team in the last season. I'm sure there's more error but I think that's enough, you probably need to go back and do a quick fact check on all your numbers.

Gudlevskis?
 
I have to go with USA.

Eichel, Matthews, Wise will inject new life into a forward group that is already talented, but now they get that elite game breaking talent.

Then defence is on the up and up as well, not to mention they boast amazing goaltending prospects.
 
Gudlevskis?
Wouldn't he count under NHL? Did he play a game there this season?

Wow, he got a lot of callups to play only one game. Still, unless you're double counting he would fall under players who suited up for the NHL...
 
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Basically I like slovakiasnextone efforts just because it agrees with my eye tests about the improvement of Belarus. That said I think the senior league table had to include DEL as well, and not just because to make Germany an even bigger anomaly :)
 
Hungary should just do what Kazakhstan has done. Go get some good Canadian boys, pay them good money to play in their domestic league for 4 years and give them a passport :).

Hungary drafts McDavid, Crosby, Stamkos and Weber.
 
jack ichel going 2nd
matthews going 1st

americans are producing generation talent
similar to canadians
of course mcdavid steps them up

but i think USA is turning into the world's #1 super power
just like in real life !
 
@Slovakiasnextone. First of all, without going into the biases in data collection that I suspect, you have to admit that your data has some serious flaws that are blatantly wrong. Denmark has 1 U25 NHL player and 1 U25 AHL player despite having Jensen, Bjorkstrand, and Ehlers. Then under Danish SHLers you have a big fat 0 but the parameter was players who have "suited up" so do Emil Kristensen, Magnus Molge and Morten Jensen not exist? Collector's bias is one thing but blatant statistical error makes the conclusion of your research hard to reach on my own as an observer. Also, only 4 Latvians (Blueger, Bukarts, Jevpalovs, and Kenins) have suited up for an AHL team in the last season. I'm sure there's more error but I think that's enough, you probably need to go back and do a quick fact check on all your numbers.

I can confirm that the stats for U25 players from Denmark are all wrong. Patrick Bjorkstrand has played two seasons in KHL and is now 23 years old. There is at least four Danes with SHL games on their cv and thats just counting the ones under the age of 20. If any conclusions are to be made of it you at least need to have the correct numbers.
 
Hungary drafts McDavid, Crosby, Stamkos and Weber.

:laugh:

But in all seriousness, more along the lines of guys who couldn't quite make it in the NHL and AHL. This will do nothing to help development though.
 
jack ichel going 2nd
matthews going 1st

americans are producing generation talent
similar to canadians
of course mcdavid steps them up

but i think USA is turning into the world's #1 super power
just like in real life !

No, they've still got a long ways to go to catch up to Canada consistently in best on best. Canada is currently in another golden age at the mens levels. But I do agree the Americans have some serious talent coming into the NHL lately.

I see the Finns stepping up big time and could become a superpower amongst the big 6 in hockey.
 
MOD I would say that Finland and USA are having concurrent "golden years". USA is producing elite forwards with some regularity for the first time ever, and Finland is producing elite talent beyond one player every few years for the first time ever.
 
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MOD I would say that Finland and USA are having concurrent "golden years". USA is producing elite forwards with some regularity for the first time ever, and Finland is producing elite talent beyond one player every few years for the first time ever.
Is it just me or is the Czech Republic kinda slowing down as well. Like it's not dropping the way Slovakia is but it's getting crowded out by the other members of the big 5.
 
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Is it just me or is the Czech Republic kinda slowing down as well. Like it's not dropping the way Slovakia is but it's getting crowded out by the other members of the big 5.

The Czechs produce solid two way players, but it's been a long time since they had a star. I don't know if I could name an elite Czech drafted into the NHL since the 90s. Voracek, Plekanec and Krecji are probably the best this century, which isn't great. Enough depth to compete though.
 
The Czechs produce solid two way players, but it's been a long time since they had a star. I don't know if I could name an elite Czech drafted into the NHL since the 90s. Voracek, Plekanec and Krecji are probably the best this century, which isn't great. Enough depth to compete though.
We need like a forum to rank the risers and the fallers in international hockey. I do feel the Czechs are falling. Do they have a round one prospect this year? People always forget that one country rises at another's expense. Finland's rise is undoubtedly to be offset by someone else's fall.
 
Is it just me or is the Czech Republic kinda slowing down as well. Like it's not dropping the way Slovakia is but it's getting crowded out by the other members of the big 5.

The major drop was in the 2007-2010, only 16 players were drafted in those years. Surprisingly decent number of them managed to get a game or two in the NHL, but only few of them are regulars now. (Voracek, Mrazek, Gudas, Nestrasil plus Jordan who is not a regular, but still gets to play sometimes)
Since 2011 we have 38 drafted players (2013 was a such weak draft for us). Not great, but not as awful as it was in those dark years.
Looking at the 2016, 2017 or 2018 drafts, I don't think it's that bad. Some very solid defensemen prospects are eligilble for the 2016 draft, 2017's age group impressed me in the international games and for the 2018 draft we have Zadina, who has Zacha-like numbers so far.

Certainly we aren't talking about some golden years, but it's getting better.

I do feel the Czechs are falling. Do they have a round one prospect this year?

Libor Hajek is a possible late 1st rounder.
 
A few years back, Sweden had several greatyoung prospects coming through the lines.

Karlsson, Landeskog, OEL, Lehner, Klingberg, Larsson, Forsberg, Zibanejad, Brodin etc.

Now, the last couple of years, Finland has produced several future stars/superstars in Barkov, Laine, Pulju, Ristolainen, Aho etc.

Which is the next country to have this burst of talents, aside from Canada who has great prospects coming up every single season?

I hope to see some non-Traditional countries start popping up sooner or later.

China, Japan, or Korea would all be pretty neat in my opinion.

Although I think that is decades away, if ever. I'd actually even be happy with them consistently producing NHL level talent.
 
Libor Hajek is a possible late 1st rounder.
You obviously have a very intimate understanding of Czech hockey so I'll take your word.

Hajek hasn't been going in the recent mock drafts though. Going to Saskatoon was probably a dubious choice, perhaps staying in the Czech Republic would've been better for him.
 
Just out of curiosity, what do the rest of you feel constitutes a "golden age?" Personally I do not feel the top 6 can have a golden age because they are consistently better than everyone else. Sure they can hypothetically move around within the top 6 in a fictional list of the best hockey country's in the world (or the IIHF World Rankings), but that doesn't necessarily mean any specific point can be considered a "golden age."

To me a golden age means a country has statistically stepped up their performance noticeably over the course of 5-10 years before eventually floating back to where they were in the past. So one great run such as Belarus's 2002 Olympic run wouldn't count as a golden age unless they finished considerably better in other competitions at that time.
 
Just out of curiosity, what do the rest of you feel constitutes a "golden age?" Personally I do not feel the top 6 can have a golden age because they are consistently better than everyone else. Sure they can hypothetically move around within the top 6 in a fictional list of the best hockey country's in the world (or the IIHF World Rankings), but that doesn't necessarily mean any specific point can be considered a "golden age."

To me a golden age means a country has statistically stepped up their performance noticeably over the course of 5-10 years before eventually floating back to where they were in the past. So one great run such as Belarus's 2002 Olympic run wouldn't count as a golden age unless they finished considerably better in other competitions at that time.

Canada can't really have a golden age, but I think countries like Finland, Sweden, the US and Russia kind of can.

Just look at the team the US iced in 2006. The Golden Age for US hockey was the 1996-2002 generation because of what they achieved. They were equal to Canada. But then they dropped off because elite players were replicated and replaced. Now, hypothetically, if Eichel, Mathews etc and friends could become elite players and the US team equals to or rivals Canada in every tournament you could say that's the new Golden age of US hockey.

In the same way Finland had a lull for awhile in producing players. People were starting to suggest there was only really a top 4 in hockey, that Finland was going the way of the Czechs. Now they are producing elite players in multiple drafts and winning tournaments.

I don't think any country is just going to randomly put out an elite generation and then do nothing ever again. Like say Hungary coming out of nowhere and winning the Olympics and then going back to a D2 team.

That's at least how I would see the term golden age.
 
Canada can't really have a golden age, but I think countries like Finland, Sweden, the US and Russia kind of can.

Just look at the team the US iced in 2006. The Golden Age for US hockey was the 1996-2002 generation because of what they achieved. They were equal to Canada. But then they dropped off because elite players were replicated and replaced. Now, hypothetically, if Eichel, Mathews etc and friends could become elite players and the US team equals to or rivals Canada in every tournament you could say that's the new Golden age of US hockey.

In the same way Finland had a lull for awhile in producing players. People were starting to suggest there was only really a top 4 in hockey, that Finland was going the way of the Czechs. Now they are producing elite players in multiple drafts and winning tournaments.

I don't think any country is just going to randomly put out an elite generation and then do nothing ever again. Like say Hungary coming out of nowhere and winning the Olympics and then going back to a D2 team.

That's at least how I would see the term golden age.

yeah it can not get better than 4 straight losses in the quarterfinal.
 

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