News & Notes Thread Part VI: "Where the Hell is the News Thread?" Editon

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Vagrant

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Scapegoating Semin is moronic, but acting like he and his contract aren't part of the problem is equally dumb. He's the 20th highest paid player in the league and sits at 146th in scoring. That's not a good value at all. Relative to the production we've come to expect for Staal's $9 mil, it's probably right on the money, but that's not good value either. Cam? Forget it, for this year that was 6 mill flushed down the toilet.

The thing is that evaluations of players need to be relative to each other inside the same confines, because by and large they're facing the same individual challenges. It's ridiculously hard for one player to stand alone and look worth their money when they're surrounded by people that aren't getting results either. The fact that Eric and Semin have been saddled by Tlusty's lack of scoring and scoring woes of their own means they have to be evaluated as a unit. A unit that, right now, isn't functioning properly. What I took to mean by "Exhibit A" as mentioned by Luke was that it was another way of saying "Primary Example of an overpaid player", or perhaps "Best example of a player not earning his money", which to me was erroneous and typical to the rhetoric that has followed Semin through his career. There's no future in smearing Eric Staal in the press and these guys know where they eat. We've made Eric Staal one of the most well-compensated and well-connected players in the hockey world and one that if you're going to work in North Carolina hockey, you'd better at least play nice with. No such risk exists with Semin because he's neither well-connected nor well-liked, thus an easy target to pin your disappointment upon. He paid for Ovechkin's likability in Washington and he's paying for Eric's here. It's like being mad at your wife and kicking your dog. The frustration needs to come out, but even in your anger you know you'd better not lash out in the wrong way.
 

TheBigKahuna

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The single most talented player the Canes have had since Francis retired, and like the rest of the team, he's struggling AND playing injured. And just like the fools in DC, we're blaming the poor season on Semin?
 

rocky7

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I believe that by and large, Semin is very well liked by fans and the players, Muller as well actually. I do agree with Vagrant and see this, Tripp Tracy as well, as a concerted effort to undermine that with the fan base. and, it's coming from the top.
 

Joe McGrath

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The thing is that evaluations of players need to be relative to each other inside the same confines, because by and large they're facing the same individual challenges. It's ridiculously hard for one player to stand alone and look worth their money when they're surrounded by people that aren't getting results either. The fact that Eric and Semin have been saddled by Tlusty's lack of scoring and scoring woes of their own means they have to be evaluated as a unit. A unit that, right now, isn't functioning properly. What I took to mean by "Exhibit A" as mentioned by Luke was that it was another way of saying "Primary Example of an overpaid player", or perhaps "Best example of a player not earning his money", which to me was erroneous and typical to the rhetoric that has followed Semin through his career. There's no future in smearing Eric Staal in the press and these guys know where they eat. We've made Eric Staal one of the most well-compensated and well-connected players in the hockey world and one that if you're going to work in North Carolina hockey, you'd better at least play nice with. No such risk exists with Semin because he's neither well-connected nor well-liked, thus an easy target to pin your disappointment upon. He paid for Ovechkin's likability in Washington and he's paying for Eric's here. It's like being mad at your wife and kicking your dog. The frustration needs to come out, but even in your anger you know you'd better not lash out in the wrong way.

I don't disagree that scapegoating him is stupid, in fact that was the first thing I said. But there are so many people here claiming his contract is good value, when it really isn't. The Canes are just so laden with terrible contracts that no one seems to notice that this isn't a great one either.
 

tarheelhockey

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I don't think it's a concerted effort, it's just the same groupthink that has always followed him. Quiet well-paid Russians are a lot juicier targets than, say, marketable English-speaking Canadians who have family clout.
 

Vagrant

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I believe that by and large, Semin is very well liked by fans and the players, Muller as well actually. I do agree with Vagrant and see this, Tripp Tracy as well, as a concerted effort to undermine that with the fan base. and, it's coming from the top.

I think he's a hard guy to identify with on a personal level because he doesn't speak English incredibly well. How much can you possibly share with a person that doesn't speak your language? I think it's more like a case of the players in the room not disliking him, as they did in Washington, than of the players liking him. I think he's probably a neutral presence in the room much like Pitkanen was here. They probably respect the hell out of what he can do on the ice, treat him with respect, and let him do his own thing here. It's the best way to handle a player that seems somewhat reticent to join the culture.

With that said, it really doesn't amount to much what the guys think of him. Everybody gets shifty eyes when you're losing too many games. But the agenda from above is obvious. As I said, there's no losing in taking Semin to task and virtually everything to lose by going after Eric. It would be suicide from a team coverage standpoint.
 

Blueline Bomber

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Wait...so calling out a guy that makes 7 million dollars to put up 31 points is scapegoating? Even if it's done at the same time as calling out the other overpaid players on the team?

Let's put it this way: This board was absolutely up in arms about LaRose's production in the Top 6 and how he was overpaid with the 1.9 million he was making. Semin's had similar production, with MUCH more opportunities, and he's exempt from criticism with his overinflated contract?

Bull****.
 

Anton Babchuk

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Wait...so calling out a guy that makes 7 million dollars to put up 31 points is scapegoating? Even if it's done at the same time as calling out the other overpaid players on the team?

Let's put it this way: This board was absolutely up in arms about LaRose's production in the Top 6 and how he was overpaid with the 1.9 million he was making. Semin's had similar production, with MUCH more opportunities, and he's exempt from criticism with his overinflated contract?

Bull****.
no he hasn't. larose's career high was 32 points. semin having 31 points in 47 games is not similar production.
 

Joe McGrath

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FFS can we not bring LaRose into this conversation. Can we get his name starred out or something on here. Were talking about Alex Semin. God damn.
 

Joe McGrath

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It's a good thing I'm not a mod and have zero clout. I would ban anyone that mentioned that name in anything other than a joke. And the joke better be funny or you'd get banned anyway.
 

Blueline Bomber

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Yes, LaRose had a career high of 32 points in 67 games...which means he missed 15 games just like Semin.

Comparing him to LaRose is the quickest way to show how ridiculously bad his production has been this season. Making excuses for him or claiming there's some kind of conspiracy to scapegoat him is ridiculous.

He gets paid 7 million dollars. 31 points is absolutely unacceptable. If LaRose is the issue, I'm sure I could find plenty of other plugs that currently play with better production at a fourth of the cost.
 

Joe McGrath

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Yes, LaRose had a career high of 32 points in 67 games...which means he missed 15 games just like Semin.

Comparing him to LaRose is the quickest way to show how ridiculously bad his production has been this season. Making excuses for him or claiming there's some kind of conspiracy to scapegoat him is ridiculous.

He gets paid 7 million dollars. 31 points is absolutely unacceptable. If LaRose is the issue, I'm sure I could find plenty of other plugs that currently play with better production at a fourth of the cost.

Semin is on a 54 point pace for an 82 game season, so I think the example you are looking for is Jussi Jokinen. Not Chad ****ing LaRose.
 

the halleJOKEL

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personally i think alexander "sasha" semin is the worst player to ever play hurricanes ice hockey ever

the fact he makes 7 million american dollars (AMERICAN! not communist) hurts and disgusts me and i think eh should be deported

chad larose
 

Vagrant

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Blueline Bomber

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Semin is on a 54 point pace for an 82 game season, so I think the example you are looking for is Jussi Jokinen. Not Chad ****ing LaRose.

Pace means nothing in the long run. Pace doesn't give you actual results on the ice. How about this?

Chris Higgins - 61 GP, 34 points, 2.5 million dollars
Mikhail Grabovski - 50 GP, 33 points, 3 million dollars
Nick Foligno - 55 GP, 34 points, 3 million dollars
Brandon Dubinsky - 55 GP, 37 points, 4 million dollars
Joffery Lupul - 54 GP, 36 points, 5 million dollars

The Semin we signed to the 7 million dollar deal, the Semin we were expecting to get when we acquired him, should not be close to comparable to ANY of those players in terms of production. Yet, here we are.
 

Joe McGrath

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I don't think Alex Semin has lived up to his contract this season. Neither have the Staals, Ward, Ruutu, Liles (though that's not really fair to him personally). Skinner out performed his contract by a fair for about a month and a half and has otherwise been underwhelming. He's probably a push value wise in total this season. So basically every player who makes a significant amount of money hasn't really lived up to it save for maybe Skinner. Can we at least agree on that?
 

Joe McGrath

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Pace means nothing in the long run. Pace doesn't give you actual results on the ice. How about this?

Chris Higgins - 61 GP, 34 points, 2.5 million dollars
Mikhail Grabovski - 50 GP, 33 points, 3 million dollars
Nick Foligno - 55 GP, 34 points, 3 million dollars
Brandon Dubinsky - 55 GP, 37 points, 4 million dollars
Joffery Lupul - 54 GP, 36 points, 5 million dollars

The Semin we signed to the 7 million dollar deal, the Semin we were expecting to get when we acquired him, should not be close to comparable to ANY of those players in terms of production. Yet, here we are.

And yet none of those guys are anything like Chad LaRose. All of them are better players. Which is why your initial comment was counter productive at best. If you lead with this reasonable example you might have got your point across properly.
 

Boom Boom Apathy

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Semin is on a 54 point pace for an 82 game season, so I think the example you are looking for is Jussi Jokinen. Not Chad ****ing LaRose.

I won't weigh into the LaRose debate, but I don't agree with using an 82 game pace for Semin because Semin has never once in his career played 82 games. His average over his career is about 80% so about 66 games is what you can expect from him (he'll hit 69 if he plays in every remaining game).

So he's on pace for about 43 points if he plays his typical 66 games. Not scapegoating him here, but definitely not $7M worth. Same goes for most of the other high paid guys you mentioned.
 

Blueline Bomber

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I don't think Alex Semin has lived up to his contract this season. Neither have the Staals, Ward, Ruutu, Liles (though that's not really fair to him personally). Skinner out performed his contract by a fair for about a month and a half and has otherwise been underwhelming. He's probably a push value wise in total this season. So basically every player who makes a significant amount of money hasn't really lived up to it save for maybe Skinner. Can we at least agree on that?

Agreed. Though if we take that stance, and so has many of the media, how is that scapegoating Semin? JR calling out Semin while making excuses for Jordan back in December, absolutely, that was scapegoating.

Luke calling out every player on the team and calling for a trade of every one of them, mentioning Semin in the process? Not scapegoating.
 

Joe McGrath

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Agreed. Though if we take that stance, and so has many of the media, how is that scapegoating Semin? JR calling out Semin while making excuses for Jordan back in December, absolutely, that was scapegoating.

Luke calling out every player on the team and calling for a trade of every one of them, mentioning Semin in the process? Not scapegoating.

I know, I'm on your side of the argument. I was arguing with you because you were undercutting my own argument by bringing LaRose into it.
 

Blueline Bomber

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I know, I'm on your side of the argument. I was arguing with you because you were undercutting my own argument by bringing LaRose into it.

And as I said, I brought up LaRose to show how ridiculously poor his production has been. Nothing about comparing them as players, but in no way should Semin have anywhere near the production of LaRose. The fact that they're as close as they are speaks volumes about his season.
 
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