Post-Game Talk: New York Rangers at Vegas Golden Knights - January 8

[ReggieDunlop68]

thats the wrong play, everyone bunched up was not going to play against smith...you never leave the shooter and if he had hed have been in on a breakaway and everyone would be criticizing shatty for a terrible defensive play

in honesty im truly flabbergasted how ANYONE can blame that play on shattenkirk....ive played hockey for 24 years, most of that competitively in juniors and college and in any system against any team shattenkirk played that completely correctly....if he jumps up at the blue line and gets beat hes screwed, you only force the play at the line if you have help behind you (which he didnt i might add)

Reily Smith shoots left. He was the pivot. I would have moved to the slot.

Anyway, I agree. It was neither Shattenkirk’s “fault” nor was it a perfect example of defensive deficiencies.

There are many more ways to show that.

 

[NYR]

ive gotten to the point where i think your trolling, i get your gripe that you wanted him to step up at the blue line and take out his man a la kronwall 5 years ago but that type of defensive play rarely happens in the nhl. every defensemen is taught to force the man wide away from your net and out of the box which is how the play transpired. i get your thinking now but that doesnt mean hes at fault especially when you have THREE rangers gliding back into the zone puck watching while the eventual goalscorer goes untouched in open ice for a back door goal

Defenseman have been taught to keep their man wide and to the outside since the beginning of time but to suggest that he should just shadow him and allow him all the to the red line to make that pass is pure nonsense.
You feel the same way about allowing players to roam freely in and around the blue paint?

Even though the game has evolved, there will always be a need for the physical element.

I would've been totally content if he had even taken a penalty there.

The game was on the line.

 

[Tawnos]

Defenseman have been taught to keep their man wide and to the outside since the beginning of time but to suggest that he should just shadow him and allow him all the to the red line to make that pass is pure nonsense.
You feel the same way about allowing players to roam freely in and around the blue paint?

Even though the game has evolved, there will always be a need for the physical element.

I would've been totally content if he had even taken a penalty there.

The game was on the line.

...Smith was kept wide and to the outside...

 

[chosen]

This team will really struggle to reach the playoffs. A coach that should've been sacked months ago, an idiotic system, injuries, lack of players carrying their contracts, alot of road games coming up... it doesn't look pretty.

They can't score, they can't shoot with quality, they can't create traffic in front of the goalie, they can't defend, they can't keep the puck, they can't go through the neutral zone once they lose the lead... there are so many things that don't look good.

Hard to believe they have won a single game this season.

 

[will1066]

....and we're not a physical team.

 

[chosen]

A very overrated team playing without its team MVP this season, and only a whole top 6 line. Yup, thats not a good hockey team.

Hank can't play every game.

 

[chosen]

Ovi and Nick aside I wouldn't trade any of our core players for any Capital player.

Which core players wouldn't you trade for Kuznetsov?

 

[Samuel Culper III]

Which core players wouldn't you trade for Kuznetsov?

Or Carlson or Orlov. Love the “there’s nothing on team X I would want” posts.

 

[ltsthinaz]

Went to the game - awesome arena, awesome crowd, clean - friendly people. Go next year if you haven't considered it.
Loud building. Hockey knowledge is astonishingly low but they are upfront about it and ask a lot of questions.

Hockey knowledge was great - 40% of the building wore Ranger jerseys. BTW, I actually thought this was one of the worse games Vegas played, and I can tell you the arena and the experience are the same for all the games.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Lets hope Hayes isnt out long term...because if he is we are really going to see how important he is for us..

 

[Siddi]

Which core players wouldn't you trade for Kuznetsov?

Ok, I would love Kuzi on the Rangers but Orlov and Carlson? No thanks. I rather stick with Skjei and Shatty

 

[Doctyl]

Or Carlson or Orlov. Love the “there’s nothing on team X I would want” posts.

no thank you to either of them.

 

[Doctyl]

Ovi and Nick aside I wouldn't trade any of our core players for any Capital player.

I'd give up more for Kuznetsov than I would for either of those 2

 

[Samuel Culper III]

Orlov is underrated and I would honestly probably take him over Shattenkirk. Carlson with an extension as well. But someone said they wouldn’t move ANY of our core players for anyone on the Caps besides Ovie/Backstrom. I just think hyperbole like that is silly; I didn’t really mean to pick straws over which players I’d give up for which, just that the Caps certainly have a few guys that are certainly worth considering.

 

[bl02]

Lets hope Hayes isnt out long term...because if he is we are really going to see how important he is for us..

No updates or nothing huh?
We can't lose Hayes for any amount of time. Especially this weekend with probably the best centers in our division facing us.

 

[Siddi]

I'd give up more for Kuznetsov than I would for either of those 2

Fair point. Youth is a positive factor to take into account.

 

[mrjiggyfly]

ive gotten to the point where i think your trolling, i get your gripe that you wanted him to step up at the blue line and take out his man a la kronwall 5 years ago but that type of defensive play rarely happens in the nhl. every defensemen is taught to force the man wide away from your net and out of the box which is how the play transpired. i get your thinking now but that doesnt mean hes at fault especially when you have THREE rangers gliding back into the zone puck watching while the eventual goalscorer goes untouched in open ice for a back door goal

No fan of Shatty's defense, but to me it was the gliding Rangers' failure to pick up Wild Bill Karlsson that caused the goal.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

By the way, The Knights maintain “possession” by a well angled and agressive forecheck.

They don’t just “maintain possession,” but then I would just get told “zomg #tuffnez please don’t even go there sista child /smh “, yet the Knights look awesome.

Who knows ...

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

The bottom line is this. They played like they were half dead in Arizona and only won cause of Lundqvist. The coach saw that and changed things up and at the end of the day the team played a better game vs. a far superior team then the night before. That’s good coaching.

You son of a BI...

(Deep breath)

He's capable of doing good things isolated in a vacuum. You don't make it to this level otherwise. Have to give props imo to the team and to the...coaches... for going from an abysmal performance against one of the league's worst, to a damn near win away against one of the most on fire teams in the league.

Unfortunately when looking over the course of a dozen+ games AV's warts far surpass any positives.

 

[will1066]

By the way, The Knights maintain “possession” by a well angled and agressive forecheck.

They don’t just “maintain possession,” but then I would just get told “zomg #tuffnez please don’t even go there sista child /smh “, yet the Knights look awesome.

Who knows ...

Sista, please.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

"Consistent forechecking pressure? What's that? Is that even allowed/possible?"

-Someone who has watched and AV coached team the last 5 years.

 

[Mac n Gs]

"Consistent forechecking pressure? What's that? Is that even allowed/possible?"

-Someone who has watched and AV coached team the last 5 years.

Nah, our third man in goes to party in the corner with the other two forecheckers and leaves a wide open outlet to relieve pressure. Then we chase them for 200 feet!

 

[will1066]

Here is an article written near the beginning of last season about the team's system. I'm sure this year's system while it has a few differences is largely the same. The article is more of an indictment of the defense but the section "The Breakout: Defense to offense" is indicative of our stretch pass philosophy. The article (remember this is about last year's play) contends that the forwards are overburdened by having to win the puck themselves, instead of our D, in our own zone to start our transitions. The thing I've noticed this year is that the forwards are getting hemmed in more and are winning less board battles, and when they do, they usually have to either chip it up the boards or give it back to the defenseman for a reverse play because teams are pressuring us way more this year.

A Deeper Look At The New York Rangers Breakouts

 

[NYR]

...Smith was kept wide and to the outside...

OK I didn't want to go this deep into it but people are still posting about it and I have a few mins to kill.

So here's how the play started.

Dman on the right has the puck.
Open man (Smith) on the LW boards.

What is Shattenkirk doing that far in the middle of the ice while Smith is just hanging out pitching a camp fire?
Is he checking out the hot blonde behind the bench?

In this formation, who is the one player WAY out of position?

There is only ONE answer and please don't tell me he's in the right position bcuz Smith wouldn't have flew past him if he was.

I'm not posting anymore pics lol.

 

[Off Sides]

Nieves did not pick up his check, he looked lost on the play in question. Shattenkirk kept the man to the outside, yet he did let the pass get through.

Girardi likely keeps his man to the outside, and probably blocks the pass, yet if he regained the puck, he likely air mails it out of the zone for a change of possession and another easy opposition entry.

I don't find that play to be on Shattenkirk, that is actually pretty good for him, yet a better in zone defender probably does more to take the passing lane away after keeping his man to the outside. In my opinion Nieves did not know who to cover and he was the main culprit.