Post-Game Talk: New York Rangers at Montreal Canadiens |Game 5| 5/27/14

[BarbaraAlphanse]

I'm upset it was Carcillo and not he who got suspended. Weaver was perfect in describing him last night. He's like a chicken with his head cut off. Doesn't think the game at all.

Spraying that kid was the end of it for me. Montreal is as unclassy as they come, but I'm embarrassed to root for someone who does things like that.

And no, I don't condone what Carcillo did, but that was an extremely heated moment and I felt it was as much the refs fault as it was Carcillo's. He has also conducted himself well since come hearing.

Dorsett never seems to go more then 3 games before doing something stupid.

I think Carcillo's maturity and understanding of the game is much higher than that of Dorsett's, and that is clearly saying something when you defend the guy who coaxed Marian Gabork (MMA heavyweight) into a fight and destroyed him simply because he could.

 

[chosen]

So one team has better D and goaltending than a team that has equal level forwards, and they're equal?

k

The difference in personnel is miniscule.

Please explain how Montreal finished ahead of the Rangers and are markedly worse than the Rangers. Best you might be able to come up with is some whining excuses, like the fans of Montreal.

 

[AHB*]

I think Carcillo's maturity and understanding of the game is much higher than that of Dorsett's, and that is clearly saying something when you defend the guy who coaxed Marian Gabork (MMA heavyweight) into a fight and destroyed him simply because he could.

Carcillo is a changed player from that incident. I hated the trade but he made me eat crow. It's a shame what happened in Game 3. I was shocked by his discipline.

Dorsett wasn't bad in the playoffs, but they hadn't faced this kind of adversity. He can't handle himself when other teams try to get into our heads.

 

[AHB*]

The difference in personnel is miniscule.

Please explain how Montreal finished ahead of the Rangers and are markedly worse than the Rangers. Best you might be able to come up with is some whining excuses, like the fans of Montreal.

New coach, new system, new players. If we have a decent start we end up with 105-115 points. Those first 3 months were brutal.

From January on they played at a 112 point reg season clip.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Carcillo is a changed player from that incident. I hated the trade but he made me eat crow. It's a shame what happened in Game 3. I was shocked by his discipline.

Dorsett wasn't bad in the playoffs, but they hadn't faced this kind of adversity. He can't handle himself when other teams try to get into our heads.

I don't think he can handle himself... ever...

I also think it is a shame that Carcillo was the one suspended. Hope they trade Dorsett and resign Carcillo in the offseason. The team seems to rally more around Carcillo, anyway.

 

[Vickers8]

New coach, new system, new players. If we have a decent start we end up with 105-115 points. Those first 3 months were brutal.

From January on they played at a 112 point reg season clip.

Not to mention our horrible regular season record at home

 

[chosen]

They are not two evenly matched teams. It is just wrong to even say that. While I agree with your overarching theme and message - that this board has pubescent hormonal mood swings given the outcome of a game, your justification for this post at this time is wrong.

The fact of the matter is that the Rangers are a better team than the Canadiens. The only team I think we were evenly matched up against was the Penguins - the Flyers and the Habs being marginally to significantly worse than our squad.

If I was to break it down, which I don't want to do but I will do anyway as there is near certainty that your or someone else will question my reasoning behind labeling the Rangers as the more dominant team to begin with, it goes like such:

The Rangers have the more talented offense. Talent is hard to appraise as it can be subjective and in the eyes of the beholder, but the Rangers' star power and depth convincingly trumps the talent of the Canadiens.

Their offense is far more balanced, meaning that their ability to score is not only potent due to the talent but evenly distributed, as well. I state this with near certainty and its validity seems almost unarguable.

Their defense is more talented and balanced and works better as a cohesive unit. If we were to cancel out Subban and McDonagh out of our judgement of this statement (as I consider both to be Norris candidates that are nearly equal in net worth to their respective teams), Girardi > Emelin, Staal > Markov, Stralman = Gorges, Klein = Weaver, and Moore/Diaz > Boullion.

The next thing to compare is the goalie situation and before the series started, I had Hank and Price equal as both had the capability of absolutely stifling the opposing team's offense at a nearly equal rate of time and probability. Seeing as we have only seen Price for 2 periods out of 17, and we are playing their 2nd back up (soon to be immediate back up), the advantage would obviously and undoubtedly go to the Rangers in this facet as well.

To dissect some more categories - namely special teams - our penalty kill (for the most part) absolutely dominates their power play, and our power play seems much more dangerous on a much more consistent basis against their penalty killers. So special teams would clearly go as an advantage to the Rangers, as well.

Finally, coaching. Therrien has a career record of 287-224, a winning percentage of 56%. Vigneault, comparatively, has a record of 462-308, a winning percentage of 60%. Vigneault has nearly a 4% higher winning percentage than Therrien having coached nearly twice the amount of games. We can give a marginal advantage to AV, although that is a conservative statement, but an advantage to the Rangers nonetheless.

There is absolutely no facet between both teams that the Rangers don't have an advantage on. They aren't two equally matched teams. Truth be told, we should have been able to finish this series in 4 games, or even 5.

But the Rangers have fallen victim to conforming their playing style to combat that of the Canadiens. They're engaging in behind the scenes play, allowing the Canadien players to get under their skin with their antics (whether that be media showmanship or on-ice embellishment), and they've deviated their method of playing in the last 2 games.

The board's mood swings are an issue that will always be ever-present and a general problem that one post, such as the one quoted, will not fix, alleviate, improve, or have any other positive outcome. It's aggravating and unbearable watching the tides turn on these boards and noticing how (sometimes) every shred of positivity can leave for days. But not for one moment will I agree with you that this team isn't the better team than the one that we are currently playing.

To win this series, it really is as simple as playing their game and playing it well and focused, and they'll win. Discipline, defense, goaltending was what Sam Rosen claimed to be our core values. We have a significant advantage over the Habs in not only just those 3 departments.

If this team loses this series, which I hope they don't and don't think that they will, every ounce of negative posting on this board will likely be justified, as the Rangers will not only have lost to an inferior team, but lost because they couldn't grasp their moment and their destiny. And there is absolutely nothing more disappointing in this world than watching things and people with such high potential throw it away because of a lack of discipline, direction, and focus.

If your analysis was correct, the Rangers would have finished 20 points ahead of Montreal. You can't be better in every phase of the game and finish behind that team. It's impossible.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

Not to mention our horrible regular season record at home

I don't think that can be discounted off the record. Transition period? Sure. Playing better at home? On the coach.

 

[BarbaraAlphanse]

If your analysis was correct, the Rangers would have finished 20 points behind Montreal. You can't be better in every phase of the game and finish behind that team. It's impossible.

Our starting line up had Taylor Pyatt, Brian Boyle, and Jesper Fast on our 3rd line. We had Asham on our 4th line.

The team had to learn to play a polar opposite style of play, leading to confusion, miscues, lack of trust in team mates, and added pressure on the team.

 

[chosen]

Our starting line up had Taylor Pyatt, Brian Boyle, and Jesper Fast on our 3rd line. We had Asham on our 4th line.

The team had to learn to play a polar opposite style of play, leading to confusion, miscues, lack of trust in team mates, and added pressure on the team.

When the playoffs started you must have said you expect the Rangers in the Finals. I thought it would be Bos-LA.

All of you talking about Rangers superiority must have felt the Rangers were bound by the Finals. Somehow I doubt that.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I think Carcillo's maturity and understanding of the game is much higher than that of Dorsett's, and that is clearly saying something when you defend the guy who coaxed Marian Gabork (MMA heavyweight) into a fight and destroyed him simply because he could.

They are both pretty ****ing stupid

 

[DudMan28]

Ugly game but I do like the fact that they were able to battle back. Gotta give them credit for that. I'm not too worried just yet. I think we will come out flying in game 6.

They know the can beat MTL. They just have to go out and do it now.

 

[DudMan28]

When the playoffs started you must have said you expect the Rangers in the Finals. I thought it would be Bos-LA.

All of you talking about Rangers superiority must have felt the Rangers were bound by the Finals. Somehow I doubt that.

I think most of us had the same mindset.. Avoid Boston and the team would have a good shot at the finals

 

[AHB*]

Our starting line up had Taylor Pyatt, Brian Boyle, and Jesper Fast on our 3rd line. We had Asham on our 4th line.

The team had to learn to play a polar opposite style of play, leading to confusion, miscues, lack of trust in team mates, and added pressure on the team.

No Kreider, MSL, Klein, Talbot, Hagelin to start the season. That's 3 of our top 6 wingers.

 

[Cake or Death]

lost in all this, kreider had a 4 point game lol.

No doubt. And Step potting two goals with a broken jaw was inspiring to watch.

 

[poeman]

I hate that we all of a sudden lack discipline these past 2 games.

We really need to get back to our fundamentals and focus...This is with the Stanley Cup on the line

 

[AHB*]

No doubt. And Step potting two goals with a broken jaw was inspiring to watch.

Kreider did have a 4 point game. It was arguably the worst performance I have ever seen from a player scoring 4 points.

 

[Fitzy]

I hate that we all of a sudden lack discipline these past 2 games.

We really need to get back to our fundamentals and focus...This is with the Stanley Cup on the line

The intensity has been better... we're losing games when up 2 games now instead of just one.

It's not altogether surprising that Henrik, and the defense had a lapse of focus in a 3-1 game 5. That's a dangerous series score because the leading team feels safe, and the trailing team feels they have a shot unlike being down 3-0. Add the fact that they were playing in front of their home fans, Henrik gives up some weak goals and there you go.

 

[GraveyTrain9]

the only silver lining I see going into game 6 is Lundqvist's tendency to have MONSTER bounce-back performances.

I won't even bother going to the main boards for the rest of the series as I'd rather keep my sanity. Not sure how any of you even have the energy or patience to go back and forth all day long with those people.

 

[chosen]

I think most of us had the same mindset.. Avoid Boston and the team would have a good shot at the finals

That was my feeling, as well, but the way some are posting, they believed beating Montreal was no big deal. I think Montreal was the favorite before the series, so some of these fans were far smarter than the bookmakers. I doubt that.

 

[Jackson Ranger]

That was my feeling, as well, but the way some are posting, they believed beating Montreal was no big deal. I think Montreal was the favorite before the series, so some of these fans were far smarter than the bookmakers. I doubt that.

I would agree, the Rangers were the underdogs based on where they finished in the rankings as well as the Rangers lack of success in Montreal. In three games there so far, one has resulted in a similar performance to the past.

If they don't win tomorrow, I don't like their odds for Saturday.

 

[Ail]

If your analysis was correct, the Rangers would have finished 20 points ahead of Montreal. You can't be better in every phase of the game and finish behind that team. It's impossible.

You're wrong and it has been discussed ad nauseum in several threads prior and early to the playoffs. If you chose not to read them or simply disagree that is up to you, but you're wrong.

The best team does not always win or finish higher in the rankings than lesser teams. Thinking that is the case is beyond naive.

 

[Ail]

That was my feeling, as well, but the way some are posting, they believed beating Montreal was no big deal. I think Montreal was the favorite before the series, so some of these fans were far smarter than the bookmakers. I doubt that.

Montreal beating Boston made them seem larger than life. Anyone who watched that series knows who the better was. They were a heated rival. No one thought the Devils were beating the world beater 2012 overachieving Rangers either, but guess what? They did.

 

[McRanger]

The Rangers started horrendously but improved as the season progressed. The Rangers were a better team than Montreal in the 2nd half of the season. By a fair margin.

In the final 41 the Rangers scored more goals, gave up less and had a goal differential that was nearly an entire goal above Montreal. The Rangers were 2nd in the league, behind only Boston. Montreal was 15th. The difference between +38 and +2 in 41 games.

Considering how teams and rosters change throughout the season, I've always considered it obtuse to judge a teams playoff chances by looking only at their regular season point total. Its just one piece of the bigger picture.

At first glance being up 3-2 seems pretty even. But considering the sample size it rather large. Looking at it in a vacuum, there is a monster difference between a 60% winning percentage versus a 40%. That is why it is tough to view the playoffs the same way we view the regular season. Even teams that seem obviously superior should expect a likelihood of being brought to a 6th or 7th game. Especially in this age of unsurpassed parity.

Of course none of this means anything when it really comes down to it. An "inferior regular season opponent" wins all the time. Injuries, fatigue, hot/cold streaks, bounces, officiating etc. can nudge momentum one way or another. Sometimes there isn't much leeway. A two game losing streak in the regular season is an annoyance. In the playoffs it can spell doom.

The perils of a 7 game series. And what makes it so exciting.

 

[Pizza]

That was my feeling, as well, but the way some are posting, they believed beating Montreal was no big deal. I think Montreal was the favorite before the series, so some of these fans were far smarter than the bookmakers. I doubt that.

Casino depicts a top flight bookmaker about as well as it can be done with out having direct experience with one. Extremely sharp people.

So yeah, I agree. The Habs have a very good team and match up very well with us. As our previous experience with them prior to the start of the serious would indicate.

The one place I know I underestimated them is in their ability to head game their opponent and just be....irritating.

I would have thought it impossible to want to beat a team more than I wanted us to beat the Pens, but the Habs have done that going away for me. I have never detested a team, it's coach or it's fans more.


.....well maybe the Flyers in the 70's and the Islanders in the 80's but that is a very high standard. You have to give Montreal credit.