Post-Game Talk: New York Islanders at New York Rangers - October 19, 2017

[eco's bones]

I have to say that I'm not jazzed at the idea of either Arniel or Ruff taking over as Rangers coach. To me they are both mediocrities. If we're going to replace AV I'd want someone else.

The team is not playing with a lot of confidence and when you get behind two goals early and the opposing team is scoring very very early in games it's hard to have confidence. The Rangers have given up 7 very early goals in 8 games this year. We give up late goals too.

Henrik's made some hellaciously great saves but he's also let in a number of weak ones. Barzal's last night. The defending has not been great in front of him though either. Our best players aren't playing that well.......and Nash is another one. When he gets chances he doesn't put them in....last night he got outmuscled by the much smaller Barzal.

 

[Off Sides]

Looking for positives since there are so many negatives it's a shorter post.

At least Smith finally woke up a bit in the 3rd. That was by far his best play of the season, no not defensively, he is still lost there, but he was up ice trying to make some stuff happen.

Vesey and Skjei almost scored, and were almost scored on several times.

Nash did not get hurt on his breakaway or when he let Barzel walk around him or when he hit the post.

Bailey did not score in the final seconds which helps Shattenkirk not look so bad for that play.

Lundqvist actually made several really good saves in this game.

 

[JT Kreider]

Let's be honest, even if they make the playoffs, this team isn't winning the Cup. I think most would have agreed with that a month ago as well.

That said, I am fully on board with an absolute disaster of a season. With how much this game has shifted to youth, it's not necessary to suck for multiple years before improving through the draft.

I've said it before, but if this season leads to AV moving on, Henrik retiring it getting traded to chase a Cup, and multiple first round draft picks, including a truly premium one in 2018, I'll be a happy camper.

Team is trending down right now. They'd at least be trending up if all of those things transpired. Let's get out of the mediocrity do-loop.

+100000. And we also have to consider the East around us. Every team has a boat load of very good to high end young talent.

We're going to get left in the dust very quickly, if we haven't already.

JG needs to decide on a definite direction. This half playoff team half retool is just going to have us running in circles.

If you're a playoff team, then be a playoff team, if not then it's time to look to the future. A playoff team doesn't trade their best player at the most important position in the sport, a position they're already very weak at to begin with.

In particular McDonagh and Zuccarello since they're both a year and 9/10 away from UFA. If they're not going to be re-signed, then IMO they should be moved sooner than later simply because we would get a much better return right now as opposed to this dragging out to the 2019 TDL where they would be pure rentals and have much less value.

And I do think extending a near 30 year old McDonagh to an 8 year $7 million per contract would be a huge mistake.

The returns you get in those two deals would be a good starting point to getting some much needed good young talent in the organization.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

What other coach options are there outside of the NHL? Weren't the Rangers looking to possibly add some coach from the Czech league last offseason into their staff, or am I wrong? College coaches, junior ones, etc. Anyone in mind?

 

[JT Kreider]

What other coach options are there outside of the NHL? Weren't the Rangers looking to possibly add some coach from the Czech league last offseason into their staff, or am I wrong? College coaches, junior ones, etc. Anyone in mind?

Sheldon Keefe. Marlies

 

[NYR Viper]

I found myself, at multiple points last night, saying literally out loud, this is the type of game that no one deserves to win. Both teams were bad. Both goalies let in bad goals. Both defenses had lapses. Neither team made consistent skill plays with the puck which is where this league is heading. Someone had to win.

In saying that, if the Rangers played that way against even a decent team, they would have gotten killed.

 

[Tob]

This team and coaching staff is like a 13 year old blind dog with a flesh eating bacteria disease.

it'll eventually recover if you keep paying for the antibiotics and ICU care but the quality of life will still be below par and there's a 85% chance it'll die of old age within the year anyway.

I think if there's a long term coaching candidate available on the market right now, Jeff would have pulled the trigger behind the barn.

Too bad the coaching market is barren.

Maybe Julien gets fired if the Habs go 1-11 or something and we can swap coaches with similar salaries. Julien will be the best option and Vigneault is french .

 

[JT Kreider]

This team and coaching staff is like a 13 year old blind dog with a flesh eating bacteria disease.

it'll eventually recover if you keep paying for the antibiotics and ICU care but the quality of life will still be below par and there's a 85% chance it'll die of old age within the year anyway.

I think if there's a long term coaching candidate available on the market right now, Jeff would have pulled the trigger behind the barn.

Too bad the coaching market is barren.

Maybe Julien gets fired if the Habs go 1-11 or something and we can swap coaches with similar salaries. Julien will be the best option and Vigneault is french .

Absolutely not to Julien. He's totally stifled the Habs offense. Pacioretty is ice cold and until the other night Galchenyuk was skating on the 4th line.

 

[NYR]

Also I think the team lies. There was an intermission interview with Vesey couple games ago, he said they want to play "an honest game". Whilst stating that, he looked down to his feet, dodging the judgement of the camera and the eyes behind it that watch. To me that's a sign of a lie, dishonesty. Something is up. Either it's a conspiracy by the players against the coach or a conspiracy of the entire team and FO in order to tank.

Looking down is a sign of emotion or he could just be a little shy/insecure but yeah, I think the players are tuning AV out.

Ps: I said it then, I'll say it now. The best time in recent years was when AV just got here. The lessons of Tort's gritty defensive system were still fresh and AV's offensive scheme added to that. There was balance and poise. Since then the D is constantly getting worse. On top of that the offensive scheme went into deep stagnation culminating in this season's impotence.
WE NEED A NEW COACH, more than that we need elite talent.

Spot on with the Torts reference IMO.

 

[NYR]

Worst start since 1959-60 (1-6-1 after 8 games)

Gotcha. Thanks

 

[nevesis]

Holy Crap. I had no idea. Tank.

Erik Karlsson 2.0 man....

 

[chosen]

Sutter got canned. His assistant took over

And?

 

[CasusBelli]

Erik Karlsson 2.0 man....

Deal McD before his contract runs out. Deal Holden and buy out Staal. Let Nash go. Consider dealing MZA before his contract runs out. We could get some good picks / prospects and put ourselves in a good position. I’m reluctant to trade MZA, despite his age and potentially declining contribution, because he could be a great mentor for the kids.

 

[Siddi]

I didn’t realize that Hank scored our three goals.

Watch the last 10 seconds. That is what I was referring to.

 

[will1066]

If they could just pot some goals with their chances, we wouldn't be talking about this. How many more times can you stand seeing Nash just miss or an odd-man rush where the guy makes one pass too many? Nash is so snake-bitten, he even affected Zucc, normally a lock to make the perfect pass, on their two-on-one. But Nash probably still would've missed a wide-open net even if that pass did go through to him.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Watch the last 10 seconds. That is what I was referring to.

He also let in a weak goal by Barzal, and gave up a juicy rebound. If you are going to cherry pick moments to praise Lundqvist, others will cherry pick moments to criticize him.

 

[Dr. Ogrodnick]

Watch the last 10 seconds. That is what I was referring to.

Yeah. Of course, if he doesn't give up that terrible 3rd goal, those saves are preserving a win.

 

[Siddi]

He also let in a weak goal by Barzal, and gave up a juicy rebound. If you are going to cherry pick moments to praise Lundqvist, others will cherry pick moments to criticize him.

Oh the irony. This is pure gold

Regarding those goals, Barzal one was ugly, I give you that but the Nelson goal was a deflected shot from a open man in close. He did all he could to save the initial one. 100 % not his fault.

 

[Siddi]

Yeah. Of course, if he doesn't give up that terrible 3rd goal, those saves are preserving a win.

Also true. Can't argue with that.

 

[will1066]

He also let in a weak goal by Barzal, and gave up a juicy rebound. If you are going to cherry pick moments to praise Lundqvist, others will cherry pick moments to criticize him.

It was weak definitely, but Barzal made a pretty decent shot. Hank was hugging the post (probably overly conscious doing it too after the Crosby incident) and Barzal reached back on the shot and got the far side.

 

[Mac n Gs]

And?

You said, “Has anyone seen how the Kings are doing this year?” while talking about Sutter. He isn’t their coach. John Stevens is their coach right now.

I agree with you that I don’t think he’d be a good coach here unless he has a more modern gameplan that doesn’t involve neanderthal hockey.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Oh the irony. This is pure gold

Regarding those goals, Barzal one was ugly, I give you that but the Nelson goal was a deflected shot from a open man in close. He did all he could to save the initial one. 100 % not his fault.

It's not irony when it is the exact reason why I point it out.

Goalies need to direct the puck with their pads. It's what they train for every day. It was a bad rebound to give up.

But the Barzal goal is exactly why your first remark is ridiculous. As Ogrodnick points out, if he doesn't let that one in, he is preserving a win.

 

[Crease]

I understand why people jump to Hank's defense. He's a legend. He's got an objectively bad team defense in front of him. Some declare his career unofficially over.

I understand why people jump down Hank's throat. He's getting paid a lot of money. He routinely gets beat by shots that rarely used to beat him.

SURELY there's some middle ground here. It should be safe to acknowledge that yes the team in front of him sucks but also yes Hank used to make that stop with ease; No his career isn't over but also no he's not an elite goaltender in the league anymore; And finally yes he's getting paid a ton of money for what he currently brings but that's just how the league operates.

Anyway...

 

[Tob]

I understand why people jump to Hank's defense. He's a legend. He's got an objectively bad team defense in front of him. Some declare his career unofficially over.

I understand why people jump down Hank's throat. He's getting paid a lot of money. He routinely gets beat by shots that rarely used to beat him.

SURELY there's some middle ground here. It should be safe to acknowledge that yes the team in front of him sucks but also yes Hank used to make that stop with ease; No his career isn't over but also no he's not an elite goaltender in the league anymore; And finally yes he's getting paid a ton of money for what he currently brings but that's just how the league operates.

Anyway...

"He's not getting paid $8,500,000 a year to try his best playing behind this terribly turned around defense."

 

[will1066]

I understand why people jump to Hank's defense. He's a legend. He's got an objectively bad team defense in front of him. Some declare his career unofficially over.

I understand why people jump down Hank's throat. He's getting paid a lot of money. He routinely gets beat by shots that rarely used to beat him.

SURELY there is some middle ground here. It should be safe to acknowledge that yes the team in front of him sucks but also yes Hank used to make that stop with ease; No his career isn't over but also no he's not an elite goaltender in the league anymore; And finally yes he's getting paid a ton of money for what he currently brings but that's just how the league operates.

Anyway...

The average player coming into the league is faster and more skilled than ever. The kids coming up are benefiting from technological advances in training, analytics, etc. They and their coaches have all these new tools under their belts to analyze techniques and performance. These in turn help their coaches and personal instructors refine the training methods that maximize each individual's skills. It helps them skate better, shoot better, make their hands faster, whatever else there is. They are entering the league better prepared than ever in leveraging their skill and talent. Not saying the older guys don't have access to the same tools, but this is where age becomes a difference. You can't deny that technology has been a factor in helping the new generation of guys -- especially the elite players -- train better and be more ready to play in their first few years. You will see more and more of these young players become the next superstars and dominate the game as they usher out the older generation. You will see Hank get beat more and more by young players.