GDT: New Yawk Rangers @ Loss Angeles Kings 3/25/17 7:30pm PST, 790KABC FSW
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Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
Kings are 27th in the NHL in even strength goals for.
The Kings also have the 2nd most losses (tied with Vancouver) with 27 losses when the opponent scores first. Only Colorado is worse.
Surprised it took this long for some people to realize just how much this team sucks.
The Kings also lead the league in wide shots and are 2nd overall in total missed shots.
All around awful at everything inside the offensive zone.
The Kings also have the 2nd most losses (tied with Vancouver) with 27 losses when the opponent scores first. Only Colorado is worse.
Surprised it took this long for some people to realize just how much this team sucks.
The Kings also lead the league in wide shots and are 2nd overall in total missed shots.
All around awful at everything inside the offensive zone.
Herby
How could Blake have known?
These last 3 seasons ate as bad as I have ever seen a Kings team managed, there is no way he deserves to be back, this has been McMaster/Beverly bad.
Herby
How could Blake have known?
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
KINGS17
Smartest in the Room
- Apr 6, 2006
- 32,583
- 11,775
Don't worry, I hear Brodzinski, Kempe, and some other rookies are going to come in here next season and play like Marner, Matthews, and Nylander. And don't forget Quick, he is going to play like it's 2012 and never get injured again.
The majority here still don't think it's time for a rebuild, but the writing is on the wall.
WHOneedsSOX
Registered User
- Mar 1, 2015
- 5,470
- 3,085
I just counted really fast in my half-asleep state and counted 28 times in 2012. Kings only won 3 of those games. I did not count 2-1 SO wins as 1 goal games though. Not sure if those count.
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
What's up, strawman?
I'm eager to see what a new GM's model looks like, because honestly the organization could do anything at this point--full on tear down rebuild, retool, or even try to compete (not that I endorse that). DL maybe kicking himself upstairs at the perfect time without completely handicapping the incoming GM. Please be Futa, please be Futa...
KINGS17
Smartest in the Room
- Apr 6, 2006
- 32,583
- 11,775
What's up, strawman?
I guess you don't read the posts where people pencil in rookies on next year's opening night roster and say the Kings will contend again next season.
You also fail to recognize the use of hyperbole to make a point.
Here I will help you.
hyperbole - exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
The first part of your post is a hyperbolic statement easy to take as a joke. Unfortunately, you follow it up with a claim that you mean literally, hence, strawman.
Here, I'll help you back.
Strawman - By exaggerating, misrepresenting, or just completely fabricating someone's argument, it's much easier to present your own position as being reasonable, but this kind of dishonesty serves to undermine honest rational debate.
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
Anyone think Kopitar will be a 70-point scorer again? If so, what wingers are going to help him achieve those numbers?
He doesn't have a Lucic or Williams to help him, Brown isn't a 20 goal, 50 point winger anymore, and Toffoli and Kopitar have shown zero chemistry together. There's Gaborik, but he's more likely to get hurt and post disappointing numbers yet again.
This is also the second year in a row where Carter took a huge nose dive in production after the mid-way point.
He carried the team for a good part of the season, and now that he's hit a cold stretch, as has the team's production. It's sad how heavily they relied on one player to carry the bulk of the offense.
He doesn't have a Lucic or Williams to help him, Brown isn't a 20 goal, 50 point winger anymore, and Toffoli and Kopitar have shown zero chemistry together. There's Gaborik, but he's more likely to get hurt and post disappointing numbers yet again.
This is also the second year in a row where Carter took a huge nose dive in production after the mid-way point.
He carried the team for a good part of the season, and now that he's hit a cold stretch, as has the team's production. It's sad how heavily they relied on one player to carry the bulk of the offense.
KINGS17
Smartest in the Room
- Apr 6, 2006
- 32,583
- 11,775
What dishonesty? The Quick statement is hyperbole. The odds of him getting injured these days are much higher, and his reliance on his athleticism makes him a prime candidate for a drop in performance as he gets older.
Take a poll. Most here don't think it's time for a rebuild. Most here think the team can contend again next season with 3 or 4 rookies in the lineup every night.
KINGS17
Smartest in the Room
- Apr 6, 2006
- 32,583
- 11,775
You're not a real Kings fan if you don't think he will, at least that's what I have been told.
Reclamation Project
Cut It All Right In Two
- Jul 6, 2011
- 34,135
- 3,783
Kings have the league right where they want them. The playoffs are in sight. Can't believe the negativity I'm reading here.
King'sPawn
Enjoy the chaos
- Jul 1, 2003
- 23,196
- 24,109
Without question, I believe Kopitar will be a 70+ point player again. It's hard to overlook the "what have you done for me lately" approach, but there's very little reason to treat this season as anything but an outlier.
Even if you look at his age - while he's older, he doesn't play a style of game that wears down on his body like Lucic, Brown, or Richards.
I have similar feelings about Carter. I think he can still play at a high level for a long period of time.
KingsFan7824
Registered User
- Dec 4, 2003
- 19,537
- 7,615
Last 3 seasons, he's played 228 games, with 52 goals, and 184 points. That comes out to 19 goals and 66 points in 82 games. Last 5 years, 357 games, 91 goals, 296 points. That's 21 goals and 68 points in 82. These are all full season's of Sutter. Has he stifled him? At the same time, Kopitar has had year's of 25 and 29 goals with Sutter as the coach.
One thing's for sure, he can't be the 10-15 goal and 50-55 point center he's been this year. If he was 20/65 instead, the Kings are probably in the playoffs.
Home losses in regulation to Florida, Philly, Dallas, Detroit, Vancouver, and Arizona twice. 4 of those games after the bye week. In those 7 games, the Kings are 0-6-1, and have been outscored 29-16. That leaves them with a 35-26-6 record, and a +7 goal differential, in the other 67 games, which is 90.5% of the season. Those are 7 winnable games, all teams below the Kings in the standings, none of them with a great road record. In fact, Philly, Vancouver, Arizona and Dallas have 4 of the 5 worst road records in the league. Those 13 very available points would put the Kings with 90 today, and they would be in this fun little race the Pacific division has going. Importantly, that's not requiring any help from other teams. That's a straight 7 bad losses at home by the Kings themselves.
Budaj played 3 of the games, Bishop and Zatkoff played 2 each, and Quick wasn't available for 5 of the 7. How much of a difference does that make? We'll never know.
Kopitar, 2-5-7
Pearson, 3-2-5
Doughty, 2-2-4
Martinez, 1-3-4
Carter, 0-4-4
Brown, 2-1-3
Lewis, 1-2-3
Toffoli, 2-0-2
King, 1-1-2
Shore, 1-1-2
Forbort, 0-2-2
Muzzin, 0-2-2
LaDue, 0-2-2
Kempe, 0-2-2
McNabb, 1-0-1
Dowd, 0-1-1
They're at 2.41 goals per game for the season, and in the 7 games, they're at 2.29. Toffoli played in 5 of the 7 games. Gaborik played in 6 of the 7, with nary a point. Somehow Carter managed no goals.
Ok so I see some posters on here claiming that if only Kopitar had produced his normal stats we'd be playoff bound... Well here's a reality check for you guys and some actual facts!
Yes, had Kopitar put up his normal stats we'd be a playoff team, however if Toffoli, Gaborik or if we weren't missing you know Lucic and his stats we'd also be a playoff team.. Also let's not overlook the defensive corp that was essentially rebuilt on the fly with amazing success...Or the fact that Quick missed most of the season and could have altered at minimum 6-8 games and that would have gotten us in..
Now how about the fact that Lewis, Pearson, Brown have all upped their production and if I'm not mistaken we haven't really taken a hit in overall offensive production over last season....
Our biggest culprit this season was the quick injury and how we were unable to hold late leads in which Budaj gave up softies or how our defense coughed up the puck at the worst possible situations( here's looking at Muzzin, Martinez and McNabb..the killer M's)...
a healthy and rejuvenated Defense helps headed to next season and is probably a 10-15 pt switch alone!
Quick
Forbort
LaDue
Gravel
Will all posted improved numbers, now add in guys like
Brown
Kempe
Dowd
Toffoli
Kopitar
Gaborik
Who with minimal offensive improvements alone put us in the POs...
My biggest gripe on these threads are how quickly guys are trying to place blame on one guy when the reality is the team as a whole suffered catastrophic injuries that would have derailed any other team yet we remained in the hunt until a week ago!
Yes, had Kopitar put up his normal stats we'd be a playoff team, however if Toffoli, Gaborik or if we weren't missing you know Lucic and his stats we'd also be a playoff team.. Also let's not overlook the defensive corp that was essentially rebuilt on the fly with amazing success...Or the fact that Quick missed most of the season and could have altered at minimum 6-8 games and that would have gotten us in..
Now how about the fact that Lewis, Pearson, Brown have all upped their production and if I'm not mistaken we haven't really taken a hit in overall offensive production over last season....
Our biggest culprit this season was the quick injury and how we were unable to hold late leads in which Budaj gave up softies or how our defense coughed up the puck at the worst possible situations( here's looking at Muzzin, Martinez and McNabb..the killer M's)...
a healthy and rejuvenated Defense helps headed to next season and is probably a 10-15 pt switch alone!
Quick
Forbort
LaDue
Gravel
Will all posted improved numbers, now add in guys like
Brown
Kempe
Dowd
Toffoli
Kopitar
Gaborik
Who with minimal offensive improvements alone put us in the POs...
My biggest gripe on these threads are how quickly guys are trying to place blame on one guy when the reality is the team as a whole suffered catastrophic injuries that would have derailed any other team yet we remained in the hunt until a week ago!
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Which is why I said it is correct to assume had Kopitar produced his regualr stats we'd be in the POs.. my problem is people ignoring the fact that this team should have been nowhere near sniffing the POs yet there we were.
There is no blame to go around, the guys played through adversity that had caused would be dynasties in various sports to crumble! It's just shows how much heart these guys have and how some actually tweaking could make us dangerous again...
Raccoon Jesus
We were right there
I see the word 'retool' more than i see the word 'contend' but feel free to start a poll if you like. I don't know what it will 'prove' or what you're going for other than finding out what people's feelings are. Nevertheless, you're stating your opinion as if it's a fact--"The majority here still don't think it's time for a rebuild, but the writing is on the wall" is beyond arguable and just continuing your unnecessarily combative stance as is the follow up post.
Before blowing it all up (Which moving Carter and Doughty would be) at last try a coaching change.
I just don't see anything better than Carter coming back.
You need two solid centers in this league. People around here act like he is ancient.
Doughty is irreplaceable. Yes he will get paid. Just don't give him a freakin 10 year deal. If he gives indication he wants out, move him after next year.
New coach, maybe a GM, a dman moved out for a winger. That's what I expect to see this offseason.
I just don't see anything better than Carter coming back.
You need two solid centers in this league. People around here act like he is ancient.
Doughty is irreplaceable. Yes he will get paid. Just don't give him a freakin 10 year deal. If he gives indication he wants out, move him after next year.
New coach, maybe a GM, a dman moved out for a winger. That's what I expect to see this offseason.
KingsFan7824
Registered User
- Dec 4, 2003
- 19,537
- 7,615
After the Feb 9th game in Florida, the standings were:
6)Blues, 61
7)Preds, 60
8)Kings, 60
9)Flames, 59
Then the Kings had their bye week.
Since Feb 9th:
Flames, 14-4-1(9-4-6 in reg)
Preds, 12-5-3(9-5-6 in reg
Blues, 12-6-1(12-6-1 in reg)
Kings, 7-9-3(5-9-5 in reg)
During that time, the Kings are 6-6-1 at home, and 1-3-2 on the road. They're 4-6-3 against western teams, including 1-5-2 against Pacific teams. They're 1-2-1(3 of 8 points) against Calgary, Nashville, and St.Louis, while Calgary, Nashville, and St.Louis are 3-0-1(7 of 8 points) against the Kings.
Just like 14-15, there are a lot of ways to break down the non-playoff record this season.
6)Blues, 61
7)Preds, 60
8)Kings, 60
9)Flames, 59
Then the Kings had their bye week.
Since Feb 9th:
Flames, 14-4-1(9-4-6 in reg)
Preds, 12-5-3(9-5-6 in reg
Blues, 12-6-1(12-6-1 in reg)
Kings, 7-9-3(5-9-5 in reg)
During that time, the Kings are 6-6-1 at home, and 1-3-2 on the road. They're 4-6-3 against western teams, including 1-5-2 against Pacific teams. They're 1-2-1(3 of 8 points) against Calgary, Nashville, and St.Louis, while Calgary, Nashville, and St.Louis are 3-0-1(7 of 8 points) against the Kings.
Just like 14-15, there are a lot of ways to break down the non-playoff record this season.
SettlementRichie10
Registered User
- May 6, 2012
- 10,238
- 8,519
I think most of us knew a rebuild/retool was on the horizon after the collapse last year, coupled with Lucic walking. The team on paper in August 2016 was correctly projected by most of us to be a bubble playoff contender. And it looks like the Kings are finishing 9th, so there ya go.
A scorched earth rebuild is pointless unless you can offload Brown, Gaborik, Kopitar, and Quick. Trading Carter alone does nothing but further cement us in the black hole.
I'm all for a scorched earth rebuild. Keep Doughty and everyone else under 30. Sign Bishop long term. Start over.
But if we do that you absolutely need to recoup a high pick or bluechip center prospect that can develop into a #1 C. Kopitar has fallen off this year, yes. But the fact remains that every contender needs a #1 C, and they inevitably cost a ton of money to keep. That's the reality of building a contending hockey team.
This team will not win another Cup without a #1 C. I hope that's clear to everyone.
SettlementRichie10
Registered User
- May 6, 2012
- 10,238
- 8,519
And for the record, I don't think Kopitar is doomed to regression now. Guy had one bad year. It's still amazing to me that the same people who made excuses for Dustin Brown year after year are now crapping all over Kopitar for 70 below average games.
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