Speculation: New Morgan Rielly Discussion (no longer a fringe movement)

[francis246]

I'd be okay if they acquired someone to play above Rielly at LD.
However, as others have mentioned, the money to land a better defender than Rielly has already been spent ... on Rielly.
Towes turned out to be a steal for the Avs.
At 26 Towes had his first year with the Avs.
Towes broke into the NHL at age 24, you know the same age as Timmins.

Obviously, the Leafs aren't going to restructure their team for Rielly, but they will try and complement him as much as possible to get the best ROI.

It’s not just the money has been spent, those players are simply not available. Who would be a defenseman that’s younger the Rielly and better defensively that teams are willing to trade? No one

 

[mclaren55]

Yep, let’s blame the guy that’s top 10 in EVP among defencemen since he entered the league for the teams problems. Because correlation=causation, right people?

Guy came back from a nasty injury and people are jumping on him already. Relax.

 

[Hellcat]

I don’t think you understand how these contracts work. You think a lawyer is going to magically remove a NMC?
Maybe you’re too young to remember but the Muskoka 5 is a prime example of not being able to move players just because you want to.

You missed the part about change the rules, if the owners want to adjust the rules where NMC are banned, they will do it. It's as simple as making sure its is in the next CBA. Players with NMC or NTC are traded every year. I'm probably older than you...

There are termination clauses in every pro contract, from code's of conduct to players who participated in non approved activities.. While it is not circumventing a NMC, it accomplishes the same effect. It usurps the the contract. Every contract is beatable, every contract has an out.

McDonnaugh has a NTC and was moved.

Not tying to be mean but don't be naïve, no contract is 100% bullet proof.

It’s not just the money has been spent, those players are simply not available. Who would be a defenseman that’s younger the Rielly and better defensively that teams are willing to trade? No one

Jakob Chychrun

 

[Menzinger]

To be fair to this market, it’s not like we’ve been watching a steady parade of Norris winners over the years and we just don’t appreciate them.

Historically Toronto has not been blessed with those types of defensemen.

The guys who get it the worst undeserving critiques are usually the 5-7 guys. Who are constantly and unfairly compared to top 4 guys in how they should be playing.....

 

[Stephen]

The guys who get it the worst undeserving critiques are usually the 5-7 guys. Who are constantly and unfairly compared to top 4 guys in how they should be playing.....

Very true and insightful. In a perfect world I think we have something that looks like Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Hedman and Vasilevskiy, to use placeholder names as your perfect core. 3 elite forwards, an elite and perfect D and G.

But the guys who catch strays are the imperfect D and G, and a fair amount for Tavares, who handcuffed the whole build and inflated all the funny money that was thrown around in 2018.

 

[notDatsyuk]

One major difference is Phaneuf was a former Leafs captain and apart of some bad teams, if you want to ignore the 2013 team who made the playoffs.

Phaneuf also had a very solid defensive partner covering up a lot of his mistakes.

 

[ACC1224]

You missed the part about change the rules, if the owners want to adjust the rules where NMC are banned, they will do it. It's as simple as making sure its is in the next CBA. Players with NMC or NTC are traded every year. I'm probably older than you...

There are termination clauses in every pro contract, from code's of conduct to players who participated in non approved activities.. While it is not circumventing a NMC, it accomplishes the same effect. It usurps the the contract. Every contract is beatable, every contract has an out.

McDonnaugh has a NTC and was moved.

Not tying to be mean but don't be naïve, no contract is 100% bullet proof.



Jakob Chychrun

McDonnaugh only moved because he waived to allow it, had nothing to do with lawyers.

If they were to move Rielly this year you believe they would be able to 100%?
I don’t think you’re mean but you don’t know what you’re talking about.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Very true and insightful. In a perfect world I think we have something that looks like Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Hedman and Vasilevskiy, to use placeholder names as your perfect core. 3 elite forwards, an elite and perfect D and G. But the guys who catch strays are the imperfect D and G, and a fair amount for Tavares, who handcuffed the whole build and inflated all the funny money that was thrown around in 2018.

FYI, Hedman has been worse than Rielly defensively this year.
Maybe the solution is to appreciate what you have, instead of being upset that what you have isn't some "perfect" player that doesn't actually exist.
Also, Tavares did not "handcuff the build" or inflate anything.

 

[IceColdBear]

He's good offensively, but badly needs to improve defensively. He's not playing like a #1 Dman, not even a 1B which is what we need him to be.

He's literally playing like a slightly better version of Tyson Barrie, it's not going to cut it. Not for 7.5M

This is absolutely a story, this team looked completely different in the games he was out. There was a real structure and it was consistent. Now since he came back there's been some huge mistakes and coincidentally he's been on for pretty much every single on of them. He's always out of position, pinches on the blue line even when he doesn't have a winger to support him and somehow still has not learned how to defend an odd-man rush.

He had four games where he wasn't great coming off a knee injury, big whoop.

Rielly is one of the 30 best D in the world, that mobility is a major asset. If he struggles for an extended period of time I'll criticize his play, but over the large sample size of his career, Rielly has been a major positive for the Leafs.

 

[Nineteen67]

Has been playing poorly since coming back from injury….in 2020

 

[Stephen]

FYI, Hedman has been worse than Rielly defensively this year.
Maybe the solution is to appreciate what you have, instead of being upset that what you have isn't some "perfect" player that doesn't actually exist.
Also, Tavares did not "handcuff the build" or inflate anything.

Hedman has a Norris, 2 Cups and a Conn Smythe. So if Rielly had delivered that he could score on his own net every night this season and I wouldn’t be upset.

We are living with Tavares. But the addition has pros and cons and very expensive hidden costs.

 

[Stephen]

Phaneuf also had a very solid defensive partner covering up a lot of his mistakes.

What universe is this?

 

[Dekes For Days]

Hedman has a Norris, 2 Cups and a Conn Smythe. So if Rielly had delivered that he could score on his own net every night this season and I wouldn’t be upset.

The point is that all players go through ups and downs, and zero players are perfect. You've been blasting Rielly constantly based on massive exaggerations of his defensive weaknesses, and yet you pick a "perfect player" who's been doing even worse defensively than Rielly ever since the true matchup player for Tampa was traded away.

You may not see all of their faults to the same extent as your own players that you watch all the time and hyperfocus in on the negatives of, but they still exist. And regardless, you don't get to go around plucking your ideal players from across the league, so may as well learn to appreciate what you have.

We are living with Tavares. But the addition has pros and cons and very expensive hidden costs.

"Hidden costs"? How conveniently vague. Tavares has brought a lot of value and impact to this team after being acquired for zero asset expenditure, and whether you like him or not, the fact is that he didn't "handcuff the build" or inflate anything.

 

[Leafblooded]

Morgan Virtue

 

[francis246]

You missed the part about change the rules, if the owners want to adjust the rules where NMC are banned, they will do it. It's as simple as making sure its is in the next CBA. Players with NMC or NTC are traded every year. I'm probably older than you...

There are termination clauses in every pro contract, from code's of conduct to players who participated in non approved activities.. While it is not circumventing a NMC, it accomplishes the same effect. It usurps the the contract. Every contract is beatable, every contract has an out.

McDonnaugh has a NTC and was moved.

Not tying to be mean but don't be naïve, no contract is 100% bullet proof.



Jakob Chychrun

The asking price for Chychrun is absurd. We don’t have the assets for that. He’s most likely an Ottawa Senator

 

[darrylsittler27]

I think the best part is finding out the conspiracy theorists were right and no one can admit it. The Leafs play well without Reilly.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

I think the best part is finding out the conspiracy theorists were right and no one can admit it. The Leafs play well without Reilly.

Who is conspiring here?

 

[ACC1224]

I think the best part is finding out the conspiracy theorists were right and no one can admit it. The Leafs play well without Reilly.

They were right?

Personally I think the down play is the post Christmas hangover. Rielly coming back was just a coincidence.

 

[notDatsyuk]

What universe is this?

Both in Calgary (Regehr if I recall correctly) and in Toronto (Gunnarsson), but Phaneuf was never more than a second-pairing D.

 

[Hellcat]

The asking price for Chychrun is absurd. We don’t have the assets for that. He’s most likely an Ottawa Senator

Asking price for anything is usually absurd, you ask for the stars and if you get the moon , you're happy. I think they want the equivalent of 3 first rounders (pick, prospect, young NHLer). They will probably get a blue chipper and a couple of lower picks.

 

[Hellcat]

McDonnaugh only moved because he waived to allow it, had nothing to do with lawyers.

If they were to move Rielly this year you believe they would be able to 100%?
I don’t think you’re mean but you don’t know what you’re talking about.

McDonnaugh's situation was a little different, he had a NTC not a NMC, but his situation illustrates a recent example that contracts can be broken. TB threatened to put him on waivers and then told him the Columbus BJ's showed interest previously and would probably pick him, so he chose to waive his NTC to pick where he went. Point remains he thought he had a contract that would keep him in TB but they found a way around it.

If they wanted to move Morgan this year, yes I think they could. Morgan you are now a PK specialist, you're gonna play every minute of PK every game, you now have to block every shot or see your ice time cut, you are not going to get any PP time and on your paring you're the guy who plays back and is responsible to support your partner while he gets all the points. Oh BTW you're going to be the first guy to get press box time, so our younger players can play, and will be a black ace shirt in practice. Deploy Morgan for a few months so he looks like a fumbling idiot, the fans start to get on him, boo him every time he touches the puck. Stress and Pride for an elite athlete is a great motivator. While not illegal, it is in bad spirit. Can he be moved, yes. Will he be moved, no. No contract is unbreakable.

Players who waived their NTC (it happens frequently)

1. Roberto Luongo
2. Matt Niskanen
3. Ryan Callahan
4. Matt Moulson
5. Kevin Shattenkirk
6. Cody Franson
7. Justin Schultz
8. Kyle Okposo
9. Eric Staal
10. Kris Versteeg
11. David Perron
12. Chris Stewart
13. Michael Frolik
14. David Legwand
15. Andrew Ladd
16. Dion Phaneuf
17. Patrick Marleau
18. Cory Schneider
19. James Neal
20. Joe Thornton
21. Jason Pominville
22. Matt Duchene
23. Mark Stone

 

[ACC1224]

McDonnaugh's situation was a little different, he had a NTC not a NMC, but his situation illustrates a recent example that contracts can be broken. TB threatened to put him on waivers and then told him the Columbus BJ's showed interest previously and would probably pick him, so he chose to waive his NTC to pick where he went. Point remains he thought he had a contract that would keep him in TB but they found a way around it.

If they wanted to move Morgan this year, yes I think they could. Morgan you are now a PK specialist, you're gonna play every minute of PK every game, you now have to block every shot or see your ice time cut, you are not going to get any PP time and on your paring you're the guy who plays back and is responsible to support your partner while he gets all the points. Oh BTW you're going to be the first guy to get press box time, so our younger players can play, and will be a black ace shirt in practice. Deploy Morgan for a few months so he looks like a fumbling idiot, the fans start to get on him, boo him every time he touches the puck. Stress and Pride for an elite athlete is a great motivator. While not illegal, it is in bad spirit. Can he be moved, yes. Will he be moved, no. No contract is unbreakable.

Players who waived their NTC (it happens frequently)

1. Roberto Luongo
2. Matt Niskanen
3. Ryan Callahan
4. Matt Moulson
5. Kevin Shattenkirk
6. Cody Franson
7. Justin Schultz
8. Kyle Okposo
9. Eric Staal
10. Kris Versteeg
11. David Perron
12. Chris Stewart
13. Michael Frolik
14. David Legwand
15. Andrew Ladd
16. Dion Phaneuf
17. Patrick Marleau
18. Cory Schneider
19. James Neal
20. Joe Thornton
21. Jason Pominville
22. Matt Duchene
23. Mark Stone

A player waiving to leave isn’t ‘breaking a contract’. It’s following the terms of the contract.

Seems to be a fundamental thing you’re struggling with. If Rielly won’t waive he won’t be moved, bottom line.

 

[ULF_55]

McDonnaugh only moved because he waived to allow it, had nothing to do with lawyers.

If they were to move Rielly this year you believe they would be able to 100%?
I don’t think you’re mean but you don’t know what you’re talking about.

I'd say the only way to break the contracts would be for there to be a walk-out/lock-out with the entire CBA being overturned in the subsequent negotiations.
They already had some contracts terminated in the "compliance buy-outs."

Otherwise I think termination for cause, the cause is going to have to be something dramatic, see Los Angeles Kings for 2 examples.

 

[AvroArrow]

Yep, let’s blame the guy that’s top 10 in EVP among defencemen since he entered the league for the teams problems. Because correlation=causation, right people?

Guy came back from a nasty injury and people are jumping on him already. Relax.

Yup, let's just exclude Rielly from any fair criticism. Don't you dare point out flaws or mistakes in his game !

He had a much better game last night, but it's ridiculous to suggest he's exempt from criticism because he puts up points. He needs to be more aware defensively and get smarter with his pinches.

 

[mclaren55]

Yup, let's just exclude Rielly from any fair criticism. Don't you dare point out flaws or mistakes in his game !

He had a much better game last night, but it's ridiculous to suggest he's exempt from criticism because he puts up points. He needs to be more aware defensively and get smarter with his pinches.

Where did I state any of what you said?