Prospect Info: New Jersey Devils Draft Simon Nemec, 2nd Overall

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Not as funny as suggesting the Devils trade the pick that became Jack Hughes for Matt Duchene.

holy shit, I had a wrong opinion 4 years ago? No way! good memory!!!!

That was a dumb take. As was me wanting to sign Shattenkirk, it turns out. It happens. What can I say, I cant be right all the time?

Hindsight is 20/20 chief. Dont be that person.

 

[LeedsMonster]

anytime there is any discussion of handing out big money contracts, you're always "WELL ACTUALLY". Its just a bit weird. We're swimming in cap space. Use it. On elite players, not middling ones.





whatever you say man!

offense is still a problem. The Devils offense is average right now. That isn't good enough. I cant believe so many people are against signing actual elite players. I feel like I am taking crazy pills.

I feel like you are too

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

holy shit, I had a wrong opinion 4 years ago? No way! good memory!!!!

That was a dumb take. As was me wanting to sign Shattenkirk, it turns out. It happens. What can I say, I cant be right all the time?

Hindsight is 20/20 chief. Dont be that person.

You say the same thing every year. Just showing how badly you misevaluated the team back then and how costly being impatient can be.

 

[Derps]

You say the same thing every year. Just showing how badly you misevaluated the team back then and how costly being impatient can be.

Can we truly not see the difference between pre-draft 2019 and right now? I mean, actually?

 

[hidek91]

I am just convinced that some of you guys will be content forever as long as the Devils maintain that cap space!! Its a weird thing, to be quite honest. Guys like @ChicksDigTheTrap would rather be frugal than actually be good, I am convinced.

No, we want to have a contender and to see deep play-off runs, we just realize that going after the biggest UFAs on the market and signing them to huge deals isn't going to achieve that. For the millionth time, since salary that you can use is very limited and since this league artificially limits salary of RFAs (especially on ELC), the optimal way to build core is mostly via drafting because other teams won't trade not flawed young pieces on fantastic contracts and certainly not for cheap.

"You need to be patient". Bro the team has won 1 playoff game in a decade.

Amount of play-off wins and appearances doesn't matter when choosing the right strategy.

Buffalo didn't play a single play-off game in last 10 years, Chicago has won 2 cups in this timespan, doesn't matter, the optimal strategy for their rebuilds is the same (and same applies to Arizona, New Jersey etc.).

I think we've been MORE than patient. I am not talking about blowing our cap space on the Andrew Copp and Josh Mansons of the world...we're talking an actual legitimate elite winger.

Lou wasn't patient at all, Shero tried to rebuild but made some win now moves, Fitz is doing a legitimate rebuild since some point in the 2019/20, that's less than 3 years.

The reason we aren't there yet is (in short) that (mostly because of Schneider trade and other factors) we didn't get core/star/franchise players in 2013-2016.

If you draft badly, you can't at some point say "screw drafting, let's UFA/trade our way to contending" because it won't work, you'll end up with a lot of declining players on hefty contracts and you'll be forced to rebuild again.

The premise is simple- a top 5 winger is available. NJ has cap space. NJ has a need. IF this player is willing to come, you sign him. The end.

If we had unlimited resources, I'd agree with you. But since hard salary cap exists, I'd have very mixed feelings about signing him. Agree that he's a great player but what if one of Hamilton and Gaudreau decline? What if both of them do?

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

Can we truly not see the difference between pre-draft 2019 and right now? I mean, actually?

I can. Who was comparing this year to then?

 

[BananaGenetics]

You need to think long term. Brat is getting paid. Luke Hughes and Nemec will eventually need to get paid. High end defensive talents like that will cost. The price to pay for constructing a great defensive blueline.
Gaudreau is a really bad idea that could really suffocate our cap in three years where we would have trouble resigning the Mercers of the world.

Long term?

My friend, Jack Hughes turned 21 this year. The team isnt going to wait until hes 25 to compete, Nico and Jesper will be 28 by then.

No, we want to have a contender and to see deep play-off runs, we just realize that going after the biggest UFAs on the market and signing them to huge deals isn't going to achieve that. For the millionth time, since salary that you can use is very limited and since this league artificially limits salary of RFAs (especially on ELC), the optimal way to build core is mostly via drafting because other teams won't trade not flawed young pieces on fantastic contracts and certainly not for cheap.




Amount of play-off wins and appearances doesn't matter when choosing the right strategy.

Buffalo didn't play a single play-off game in last 10 years, Chicago has won 2 cups in this timespan, doesn't matter, the optimal strategy for their rebuilds is the same (and same applies to Arizona, New Jersey etc.).



Lou wasn't patient at all, Shero tried to rebuild but made some win now moves, Fitz is doing a legitimate rebuild since some point in the 2019/20, that's less than 3 years.

The reason we aren't there yet is (in short) that (mostly because of Schneider trade and other factors) we didn't get core/star/franchise players in 2013-2016.

If you draft badly, you can't at some point say "screw drafting, let's UFA/trade our way to contending" because it won't work, you'll end up with a lot of declining players on hefty contracts and you'll be forced to rebuild again.





If we had unlimited resources, I'd agree with you. But since hard salary cap exists, I'd have very mixed feelings about signing him. Agree that he's a great player but what if one of Hamilton and Gaudreau decline? What if both of them do?

Gaudreaus contract can be moved in the last few years if needed

Happens about 5-7 times every season nowadays

 

[Derps]

I can. Who was comparing this year to then?

You brought up trading the pick for duchene?

Aside from the evaluation of that, there’s a large difference between wanting to to go all-in then, trading future assets and making monster moves now sacrificing future cap space. We’ve built the core. It’s here already. I’m just not worried about what the contract looks like in 2028. No one should be. This team needs to take a step forward now; they need to start winning.

I’m usually hesistant to spend big for FAs, but you have to know when you should make exceptions. Hamilton was an exception. This is also one.

 

[hidek91]

holy shit, I had a wrong opinion 4 years ago? No way! good memory!!!!

That was a dumb take. As was me wanting to sign Shattenkirk, it turns out. It happens. What can I say, I cant be right all the time?

Hindsight is 20/20 chief. Dont be that person.

Yeah but that's an example of a move (I'm talking about NJD 2019 1st for Duchene) that would set back our rebuild for many years.

If you make, using your own word, dumb "win now" move, it will create excitement now and will look awful in 3-4 years, it's the nature of those awful "win now" moves. There's no better way to prove that "win now" moves are very likely to kill the rebuild than by digging those ideas from few years ago.

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

ou brought up trading the pick for duchene?

Go back and look at the conversation.

 

[Derps]

Go back and look at the conversation.

I looked at it and I still don’t see your point. This has nothing to do with trading that pick. This is a totally different situation.

 

[Oneiro]

Gaudreau makes me think twice, he's that good. I really like Tkachuk and would love for us to make a run at him but he's become the most overrated player I've seen since Shea Weber, another narrative first, results second reputation.

I hope we get to see the two players separated because then you'll know who's running the show.

Back on topic, I could see Nemec as the third pair D this season. Won't necessarily like it but I consider him to already be far ahead of Bahl, Okhotiuk, etc. in a lot of aspects.

 

[NJDevs26]

Why are people comparing signing Gaudreau with trading unprotected first rounders?

And this discussion really needs to go in the team thread anyway…

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

I looked at it and I still don’t see your point. This has nothing to do with trading that pick. This is a totally different situation.

All I said prior to having someone grossly misrepresent my thoughts was:

"People were always accusing Sakic of being "too patient" and not going for it. He never signed a high ticket UFA from outside the organization. Neither did TBL. The revisionist history is indeed laughable. "

Is there something you do not agree with?

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

You say the same thing every year. Just showing how badly you misevaluated the team back then and how costly being impatient can be.

Excuse me for not expecting the team to have historically bad goaltending last year...I mean who could have seen Bernier's hip exploding and Blackwood basically not playing? I am sure you had that in your bingo cards, though.

 

[BananaGenetics]

Yeah but that's an example of a move (I'm talking about NJD 2019 1st for Duchene) that would set back our rebuild for many years.

If you make, using your own word, dumb "win now" move, it will create excitement now and will look awful in 3-4 years, it's the nature of those awful "win now" moves. There's no better way to prove that "win now" moves are very likely to kill the rebuild than by digging those ideas from few years ago.

Win now moves four years ago vs win now moves.. now, is a big difference

If this season isnt the year we break out of the rebuild, I can promise you its next year. Theyre getting Holtz Hughes Nemec etc.. over the next year, add in any outside talent acquired and youre looking at w competitive team ready to begin contending another year or so after that.

Devils should be as competitive as they can this coming year - but the season after, they gotta begin to be a perennial playoff team.

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

Excuse me for not expecting the team to have historically bad goaltending last year...I mean who could have seen Bernier's hip exploding and Blackwood basically not playing? I am sure you had that in your bingo cards, though.

You really do not get it.

 

[Eggtimer]

I am team keep cap space for now , but Gaudreau is an exception to that.
Not many players that elite become available. If he does hit UFA , I at least make him an offer that makes sense . I’m not saying to go balls deep and offer him 12x7 but make a legit offer

 

[BananaGenetics]

Highest I can go is 10.5 for Gaudreau and thats only because of my confidence in the eventual cap explosion

If you told me the cap was going to slowly rise for another decade like it was pre-covid, then id max our at 10.

Waffling over 500k seems silly but if you didnt do that and let each contract take off the top an extra 250-500k, youd have around 8-12m in dead cap space.

 

[BurntToast]

The minuet Nemec was selected all other prospects were dead to me. He will have a chance to compete for the RD slot but there are no givens. I like his attitude. He is willing to come over and bet on himself.

 

[Auto Pilot]

Lol. That's what I thought.

I totally understood the Dougie signing, made sense and filled a huge need. What need does an aging Gaudreau at possibly 11m per annum fill? Offense is not an issue. Definitely not one you overpay for. He's actually the exact type of player we DONT need.

Also, there is no universe Johnny fkn Gaudreau is a top 5 winger. He's not even the best winger on his own team.

He actually was the best winger in the league this year and was absolutely the flames best winger too.

 

[RSeen]

I am just convinced that some of you guys will be content forever as long as the Devils maintain that cap space!! Its a weird thing, to be quite honest. Guys like @ChicksDigTheTrap would rather be frugal than actually be good, I am convinced.

"You need to be patient". Bro the team has won 1 playoff game in a decade. I think we've been MORE than patient. I am not talking about blowing our cap space on the Andrew Copp and Josh Mansons of the world...we're talking an actual legitimate elite winger.

The premise is simple- a top 5 winger is available. NJ has cap space. NJ has a need. IF this player is willing to come, you sign him. The end.


Again, we are talking about actual elite players here. Not middle 6 wingers or #4 DMen. How many of those have been available in free agency the past, say 3-5 years?

There is no 1 way to win. You completement your core with an elite player when they become available, especially if they cost no assets but $$$. What the Devils have been trying has not been working, at least not yet.

Your obsession with not spending money is whats laughable, tbh.



how many top 5 wingers or top 15 DMen have hit the UFA market the past 3-5 years? I will wait.

Please show me evidence of any team signing two big UFA's similar to Dougie and Gaudreau in terms of their expected contracts and has ended up winning Cups.

Your mindset on trying to use the cap space now is short sighted because you are not accounting for the clear risk associated with the declines of these players.

Like it or not, our window is a few years away in terms of us being a contender. We will need Luke/Nemec/Holtz to be impact players and they need development time.

I'm more than fine with adding depth pieces via free agency, contracts we can lose when we need to pay our key young players, but not with adding long-term contracts that will hurt that possibility.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Please show me evidence of any team signing two big UFA's similar to Dougie and Gaudreau in terms of their expected contracts and has ended up winning Cups.

Your mindset on trying to use the cap space now is short sighted because you are not accounting for the clear risk associated with the declines of these players.

Like it or not, our window is a few years away in terms of us being a contender. We will need Luke/Nemec/Holtz to be impact players and they need development time.

I'm more than fine with adding depth pieces via free agency, contracts we can lose when we need to pay our key young players, but not with adding long-term contracts that will hurt that possibility.

like I said, how often do top 5 wingers and top 15 DMen hit UFA? You arent going to find Cup winners with those guys because they rarely hit the market.

And once Bratt is signed, our "key young players" ARE all signed longterm....so I dont get that point. Unless you're talking about "Well we may need to pay Luke Hughes and Simon Nemec in 5 years", I really have no interest in discussing that. That is absurd and I honestly cant believe people have that opinion.

 

[Oneiro]

Please show me evidence of any team signing two big UFA's similar to Dougie and Gaudreau in terms of their expected contracts and has ended up winning Cups.

Your mindset on trying to use the cap space now is short sighted because you are not accounting for the clear risk associated with the declines of these players.

Like it or not, our window is a few years away in terms of us being a contender. We will need Luke/Nemec/Holtz to be impact players and they need development time.

I'm more than fine with adding depth pieces via free agency, contracts we can lose when we need to pay our key young players, but not with adding long-term contracts that will hurt that possibility.

Rafalski (34). Campbell (29). Chara (age 29). Hossa (age 31). I could say Niedermayer but I guess that would be getting cute.

Common denominator: smart, patient players with good skating. Sounds like Hamilton and Gaudreau to me...

 

[Clam Jensen]

Am I tripping balls or is this the Nemec thread?