Prospect Info: New Jersey Devils Draft Simon Nemec, 2nd Overall

[Forge]

Edvinsson is doing just fine. He was not well liked around here, but the scouts were vindicated in that ranking.

For sure, but they also had Hanafin above Marner. They hit and miss.

Its really just there to show the inconsistency. Last year we take Edvinsson, this board doesn't care where he's ranked by bobby mac. This year they care. And that's not everyone, mind you, but certainly there would be some overlap in people who bitched both ways (and also, this would cut both ways - there would also be people who justified selections the same way)

If anyone thinks that Wright was a franchise level talent that we passed on then I would be mad as well. I completely understand that.

 

[Nicomo Cosca]

Picking Cutter Gauthier #2 would have been a reach for need. You miss the big physical winger, panic and go for the next best one. If anything Nemec is a real "I don't care what anyone else thinks this is our bpa" pick. Whether they are right or wrong remains to be seen.

After all the top picks we've seen struggling in the last decade; Laf, Byfield, Kakko, Dach, Kotkaniemi, Patrick, Puljujärvi, Strome, Bennett, Reinhart, Dal Colle, Drouin, Yakupov, Murray, Galchenyuk.. And all the surprise risers like Seider, Zegras, Q. Hughes, Makar.. I can't believe people are still this tied to pre-draft rankings and so arrogant with their personal rankings.

We can bitch about this in few years if it hasn't worked out, but right now there's nothing that suggests that Nemec can't be the best player from this draft.

Really nice post. Best take I’ve read on the matter.

 

[Forge]

I mean tbf, if they picked Jiricek, I'd be fired up for sure so can't really say anything about people being fired up. It's just the dumb takes that are funny.

I was literally guessing they'd pick Gauthier or Jiricek because I too was not really confident in Fitz going for a high upside guy and just going for need. Like I wrote earlier, Nemec was not even on my radar for the devils to pick because he's like completely not what Fitz likes. Idk why people are so ignorant to this. This is a bpa pick through and through.

100% lol. I would have relied on STI and @Hisch13r to cheer me up about Jiricek. Jiricek would have felt much more off the beaten path to me (much more so than even Nemec, imo) , but in principle I agree that it's the same.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Picking Cutter Gauthier #2 would have been a reach for need. You miss the big physical winger, panic and go for the next best one. If anything Nemec is a real "I don't care what anyone else thinks this is our bpa" pick. Whether they are right or wrong remains to be seen.

After all the top picks we've seen struggling in the last decade; Laf, Byfield, Kakko, Dach, Kotkaniemi, Patrick, Puljujärvi, Strome, Bennett, Reinhart, Dal Colle, Drouin, Yakupov, Murray, Galchenyuk.. And all the surprise risers like Seider, Zegras, Q. Hughes, Makar.. I can't believe people are still this tied to pre-draft rankings and so arrogant with their personal rankings.

We can bitch about this in few years if it hasn't worked out, but right now there's nothing that suggests that Nemec can't be the best player from this draft.

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[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

Im more worried at this point about missing the DeBrincat opportunity than that they took the wrong guy. I really got the sense from the rumor mongering that CHI was squeezing NJ to try and get them to give up 2nd overall until the clock ran out and they instead went with OTT's package.

 

[MasterofGrond]

Well I’m glad we didn’t get squeezed then.

I’m willing to pay big money for free assets, or big prices for cheap assets but not big prices for big money

 

[Hisch13r]

Well I’m glad we didn’t get squeezed then.

I’m willing to pay big money for free assets, or big prices for cheap assets but not big prices for big money

Especially when he's not open to talking an extension

 

[hidek91]

Well I’m glad we didn’t get squeezed then.

I’m willing to pay big money for free assets, or big prices for cheap assets but not big prices for big money

Exactly. You aren't getting DeBrincat to sign another ELC.

Moreover, we're still rebuilding and the draft picks (no matter if it's #2 or #7) are 6 years younger than DeBrincat.

 

[RSeen]

How often do top 5 wingers or top 15-20 DMen hit the open market?

And players waive clauses all the time....McDonagh just did it the other day, as an example.

I am sick about worrying "what if so and so happens in 5 years!!?!?" Other teams figure it out. When There is an elite offensive player available for nothing but $$$, you go for it.

McDonagh is coming off a role on a team that went to the finals 3 times in a row and has a much lower cap hit than Dougie and Gaudreau will have. They could very possibly we worse players than he is in 4 or so years in proportion to their cap hits.

What teams figure it out in 5 years? What star UFA's did Tampa and Colorado add to build their teams? You don't build through free agency, you use it to touch up your line up. We've seen the years Lou kept trying to add old free agents on long expensive deals only for them to decline rapidly.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

McDonagh is coming off a role on a team that went to the finals 3 times in a row and has a much lower cap hit than Dougie and Gaudreau will have. They could very possibly we worse players than he is in 4 or so years in proportion to their cap hits.

What teams figure it out in 5 years? What star UFA's did Tampa and Colorado add to build their teams? You don't build through free agency, you use it to touch up your line up. We've seen the years Lou kept trying to add old free agents on long expensive deals only for them to decline rapidly.

The core of the team is Hughes, Hischier, Bratt, Hamilton, and L. Hughes and Nemec in a year or two.

Free agency exists to complement the core...that would be what signing a Gaudreau would do. What difference does it make if we had drafted him or not? hes a great player.

The Avs added Nichushkin, Kuemper, Kadri, Manson, etc via trade or UFA. They added to their core of MacKinnon, Makar, Rantanen, Landeskog with those guys. Thats how you build a team.

What player did Lou sign that was anywhere near as good as Gaudreau? You're out to lunch here.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

The core of the team is Hughes, Hischier, Bratt, Hamilton, and L. Hughes and Nemec in a year or two.

Free agency exists to complement the core...that would be what signing a Gaudreau would do. What difference does it make if we had drafted him or not? hes a great player.

The Avs added Nichushkin, Kuemper, Kadri, Manson, etc via trade or UFA. They added to their core of MacKinnon, Makar, Rantanen, Landeskog with those guys. Thats how you build a team.

What player did Lou sign that was anywhere near as good as Gaudreau? You're out to lunch here.

The avs did add in other ways but those additions were all significantly cheaper smart additions rather than just overpaying for the biggest UFA on the market. There’s a huge difference between what the avs did and that.

They built their team through the draft and then smart UFA and trade additions to supplement their core.

The avs are not an example of why we should pursue Gaudreau man

 

[RSeen]

The core of the team is Hughes, Hischier, Bratt, Hamilton, and L. Hughes and Nemec in a year or two.

Free agency exists to complement the core...that would be what signing a Gaudreau would do. What difference does it make if we had drafted him or not? hes a great player.

The Avs added Nichushkin, Kuemper, Kadri, Manson, etc via trade or UFA. They added to their core of MacKinnon, Makar, Rantanen, Landeskog with those guys. Thats how you build a team.

What player did Lou sign that was anywhere near as good as Gaudreau? You're out to lunch here.

It matters because of the contract and age players like Gaudreau and Hamilton will have. Those other players listed are much younger and under team control through their primes.

If your adding free agents to complement the core, you can't be talking about expensive. long-term contracts that are going to damage your ability to resign the core. If you are signing depth pieces, fine, but Gaudreau is going to command a different level of a contract.

Nichushkin was added on a $2.5M cap hit, lets not act like that is a comparable. The others were trades so I don't see how they are comparable to Hamilton/Gaudreau.

I didn't say he signed any of Gaudreau's quality, but the point is he signed several old free agents on poor contracts that severely hampered the team from a cap perspective.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

The avs did add in other ways but those additions were all significantly cheaper smart additions rather than just overpaying for the biggest UFA on the market. There’s a huge difference between what the avs did and that.

They built their team through the draft and then smart UFA and trade additions to supplement their core.

The avs are not an example of why we should pursue Gaudreau man

who gives a shit whether we drafted Gaudreau or not? It doesnt matter at this point. If you can get him, you get him.

The point is the Avs had a core, and supplemented it with some of their best players this past year. Thats what the Devils should be doing. We dont know if or when we'll be able to add a talent like Gaudreau anytime soon in FA

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

Im more worried at this point about missing the DeBrincat opportunity than that they took the wrong guy. I really got the sense from the rumor mongering that CHI was squeezing NJ to try and get them to give up 2nd overall until the clock ran out and they instead went with OTT's package.

Once the Devils hit the lottery the pick was not being traded. The Devils analytics team has juice and pick 2 has a lot more value than a player with only 2 years of team control and the 2nd at a high dollar amount. It is very difficult to make a numerical case for trading 2OA unless a player with multiple years of team control on a less than a UFA level contract is coming back.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

who gives a shit whether we drafted Gaudreau or not? It doesnt matter at this point. If you can get him, you get him.

The point is the Avs had a core, and supplemented it with some of their best players this past year. Thats what the Devils should be doing. We dont know if or when we'll be able to add a talent like Gaudreau anytime soon in FA

Who said it matters. Buts it’s likely much more expensive and risky and it’s not necessarily the best long-term move for this team.

I think it’s definitely something worth considering but comparing us spending huge money to sign Gaudreau to what the Avs did is laughable. Not remotely comparable.

 

[hidek91]

The core of the team is Hughes, Hischier, Bratt, Hamilton, and L. Hughes and Nemec in a year or two.

It's slightly off-topic but the last two didn't play a game in NHL yet. For all we know, Artem Barabosha and Charlie Leddy may end up being better than Nemec.

Free agency exists to complement the core...that would be what signing a Gaudreau would do. What difference does it make if we had drafted him or not? hes a great player.

Because if he's drafted:
1) He will not decline in his early 20s,
2) His contracts will be cheap.

If you sign Gaudreau, you aren't getting the same situation as Calgary had with him.

The tough part of building a contender isn't getting talent per se, it's keeping as much talent as possible under the salary cap.

The Avs added Nichushkin, Kuemper, Kadri, Manson, etc via trade or UFA. They added to their core of MacKinnon, Makar, Rantanen, Landeskog with those guys. Thats how you build a team.

First of all, they had their core ready to win (multiple seasons ending up in round two of the play-offs), we are not there yet and regarding the names you brought:

- Nichushkin was a reclamation project that didn't work out in NHL before, it's not a big name, flashy move akin to Gaudreau and btw. we should aim for cheap, under the radar moves and hope they end up like Nichushkin (but with keeping in mind that even if you hit the home run, the second contract would have to be much higher),
- Kuemper they were forced to trade for last minute because Grubauer decided to leave last minute,
- Kadri had fantastic contract for what he brought and this was a masterpiece of a trade by Sakic, zero similarity to Gaudreau,
- Manson was typical rental trade that contenders do so something that we should be doing in 3-6 years from now unless we don't mess up our rebuild by stupid, panic moves.

Avs are a textbook example of rebuilding properly and being extremely patient despite roadblocks like 48 points season.

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

Who said it matters. Buts it’s likely much more expensive and risky and it’s not necessarily the best long-term move for this team.

I think it’s definitely something worth considering but comparing us spending huge money to sign Gaudreau to what the Avs did is laughable. Not remotely comparable.

People were always accusing Sakic of being "too patient" and not going for it. He never signed a high ticket UFA from outside the organization. Neither did TBL. The revisionist history is indeed laughable.

 

[LeedsMonster]

How often do top 5 wingers or top 15-20 DMen hit the open market?

And players waive clauses all the time....McDonagh just did it the other day, as an example.

I am sick about worrying "what if so and so happens in 5 years!!?!?" Other teams figure it out. When There is an elite offensive player available for nothing but $$$, you go for it.

Who are these "elite" teams who have succeeded signing aging FAs to huge contracts?

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I am just convinced that some of you guys will be content forever as long as the Devils maintain that cap space!! Its a weird thing, to be quite honest. Guys like @ChicksDigTheTrap would rather be frugal than actually be good, I am convinced.

"You need to be patient". Bro the team has won 1 playoff game in a decade. I think we've been MORE than patient. I am not talking about blowing our cap space on the Andrew Copp and Josh Mansons of the world...we're talking an actual legitimate elite winger.

The premise is simple- a top 5 winger is available. NJ has cap space. NJ has a need. IF this player is willing to come, you sign him. The end.

People were always accusing Sakic of being "too patient" and not going for it. He never signed a high ticket UFA from outside the organization. Neither did TBL. The revisionist history is indeed laughable.

Again, we are talking about actual elite players here. Not middle 6 wingers or #4 DMen. How many of those have been available in free agency the past, say 3-5 years?

There is no 1 way to win. You completement your core with an elite player when they become available, especially if they cost no assets but $$$. What the Devils have been trying has not been working, at least not yet.

Your obsession with not spending money is whats laughable, tbh.

Who are these "elite" teams who have succeeded signing aging FAs to huge contracts?

how many top 5 wingers or top 15 DMen have hit the UFA market the past 3-5 years? I will wait.

 

[Bleedred]

I could take or leave Johnny Gaudreau.

I won't freak out like many of you will if we sign him and I won't really be upset if we don't sign him.

I've made my point clear and I'm sticking to it. The guys we need to worry about STFA from are guys like Zacha, Blackwood, Graves. Those are guys that shouldn't be here after this year (probably not even this year in Zacha's case), especially not at the value they think they're worth.

Miles Wood is probably in that pile too, but he may also play for cheap due to the injuries, but he's had too many problems to be giving him a raise on his last deal. And we don't even know where he's at to start this season. Sounds like he could start on IR from the presser the other day.

I'm split on Severson. Do we extend him or not? I'd f***in pick him over Graves blindfolded and with half a brain, that's for sure.

I don't think Gaudreau is going to hurt us in a few years more than trying to sign every miniscule guy that are merely better than a bum like the guys I've just named.

For what it's worth, I don't think Fitzy even wants to re-sign most of (if any) of the names I just mentioned that we need to steer clear of keeping here beyond this year.

Kuokkanen is also in this to an extent. Not that he's looking at any kind of a raise or extension with the season he just had, but we need to not get giddy and triggerhappy if he has a better year.

Same goes for Johnsson, but I think that goes unsaid. Tatar definitely does, if not just due to age.

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

Guys like @ChicksDigTheTrap would rather be frugal than actually be good,

Nothing could be further from the truth. Try again

 

[LeedsMonster]

I am just convinced that some of you guys will be content forever as long as the Devils maintain that cap space!! Its a weird thing, to be quite honest. Guys like @ChicksDigTheTrap would rather be frugal than actually be good, I am convinced.

"You need to be patient". Bro the team has won 1 playoff game in a decade. I think we've been MORE than patient. I am not talking about blowing our cap space on the Andrew Copp and Josh Mansons of the world...we're talking an actual legitimate elite winger.

The premise is simple- a top 5 winger is available. NJ has cap space. NJ has a need. IF this player is willing to come, you sign him. The end.


Again, we are talking about actual elite players here. Not middle 6 wingers or #4 DMen. How many of those have been available in free agency the past, say 3-5 years?

There is no 1 way to win. You completement your core with an elite player when they become available, especially if they cost no assets but $$$

Your obsession with not spending money is whats laughable, tbh.



how many top 5 wingers or top 15 DMen have hit the UFA market the past 3-5 years? I will wait.

Lol. That's what I thought.

I totally understood the Dougie signing, made sense and filled a huge need. What need does an aging Gaudreau at possibly 11m per annum fill? Offense is not an issue. Definitely not one you overpay for. He's actually the exact type of player we DONT need.

Also, there is no universe Johnny fkn Gaudreau is a top 5 winger. He's not even the best winger on his own team.

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

How many of those have been available in free agency the past, say 3-5 years?

Who cares?

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Nothing could be further from the truth. Try again

anytime there is any discussion of handing out big money contracts, you're always "WELL ACTUALLY". Its just a bit weird. We're swimming in cap space. Use it. On elite players, not middling ones.

Lol. That's what I thought.

I totally understood the Dougie signing, made sense and filled a huge need. What need does an aging Gaudreau at possibly 11m per annum fill? Offense is not an issue. Definitely not one you overpay for. He's actually the exact type of player we DONT need.

Also, there is no universe Johnny fkn Gaudreau is a top 5 winger. He's not even the best winger on his own team.

whatever you say man!

offense is still a problem. The Devils offense is average right now. That isn't good enough. I cant believe so many people are against signing actual elite players. I feel like I am taking crazy pills.

 

[ChicksDigTheTrap]

Your obsession with not spending money is whats laughable, tbh.

Not as funny as suggesting the Devils trade the pick that became Jack Hughes for Matt Duchene.