Speculation: New GM if We Change Direction

[Trapper]

The core needs more balance.

Marner is paid franchise money and isn’t a natural goal scorer. Apparently doesn’t learn either because every year it’s the same excuse. Not ready, not motivated, whatever.

I’ll take less assists, less dangle, more goals, harder to play against. Nylander is a 30/30 guy at 7 million. We need to move on from Marner and find another Nylander. Like a Connor in Winnipeg. Around 6 mil. That gives us better balance up front and opens more cash for balance down the lineup.

That’s where we should start. Why am I to believe that next year against a stronger team these guys are just going to get it? They keep not getting it over and over.

 

[janesy12]

The core needs more balance.

Marner is paid franchise money and isn’t a natural goal scorer. Apparently doesn’t learn either because every year it’s the same excuse. Not ready, not motivated, whatever.

I’ll take less assists, less dangle, more goals, harder to play against. Nylander is a 30/30 guy at 7 million. We need to move on from Marner and find another Nylander. Like a Connor in Winnipeg. Around 6 mil. That gives us better balance up front and opens more cash for balance down the lineup.

That’s where we should start. Why am I to believe that next year against a stronger team these guys are just going to get it? They keep not getting it over and over.

Especially against Boston, Tampa, Florida, now I guess we have to include the Habs since they just embarrassed the franchise. Sens also did very well against the Leafs this year. Not a great look.
Next year becomes extremely more difficult to make it through.

 

[ottomaddox]

The core needs more balance.

Marner is paid franchise money and isn’t a natural goal scorer. Apparently doesn’t learn either because every year it’s the same excuse. Not ready, not motivated, whatever.

I’ll take less assists, less dangle, more goals, harder to play against. Nylander is a 30/30 guy at 7 million. We need to move on from Marner and find another Nylander. Like a Connor in Winnipeg. Around 6 mil. That gives us better balance up front and opens more cash for balance down the lineup.

That’s where we should start. Why am I to believe that next year against a stronger team these guys are just going to get it? They keep not getting it over and over.

I think you're still proposing another imbalance.

Replacing Marner with 1 player who makes 4 million less is still an imbalance.

I don't know the answer, but if we only had Matthews/Tavares making the big money life would be a lot easier. Even easier if they made less than 11 million each.

 

[Trapper]

I think you're still proposing another imbalance.

Replacing Marner with 1 player who makes 4 million less is still an imbalance.

I don't know the answer, but if we only had Matthews/Tavares making the big money life would be a lot easier. Even easier if they made less than 11 million each.

For the price of Marner you could have another Nylander and Muzzin.
Even a 6 mil forward and 4/5 mil defense is huge to add to the core.
And better balance. Plus they can also be harder to play against in terms of battling for pucks, shaking off coverage and hits, etc.

 

[rumman]

The core needs more balance.

Marner is paid franchise money and isn’t a natural goal scorer. Apparently doesn’t learn either because every year it’s the same excuse. Not ready, not motivated, whatever.

I’ll take less assists, less dangle, more goals, harder to play against. Nylander is a 30/30 guy at 7 million. We need to move on from Marner and find another Nylander. Like a Connor in Winnipeg. Around 6 mil. That gives us better balance up front and opens more cash for balance down the lineup.

That’s where we should start. Why am I to believe that next year against a stronger team these guys are just going to get it? They keep not getting it over and over.

I’d like to know just how many more first round losses team Dubas is willing to tolerate before they finally admit paying half your cap to 4 players will not work, can not work? Be interesting to see what toys from misfit island the GM can conger up to fill out the roster next season?

 

[Trapper]

I’d like to know just how many more first round losses team Dubas is willing to tolerate before they finally admit paying half your cap to 4 players will not work, can not work? Be interesting to see what toys from misfit island the GM can conger up to fill out the roster next season?

I would like to be financial advisor for many here. How many times can I lose your money and you keep trusting me.
Apparently going on 6 times.

 

[rumman]

I think you're still proposing another imbalance.

Replacing Marner with 1 player who makes 4 million less is still an imbalance.

I don't know the answer, but if we only had Matthews/Tavares making the big money life would be a lot easier. Even easier if they made less than 11 million each.

I have to agree, got to trade 2 of the 4 to improve the team. The good news is despite their lack of playoff success I believe you could move any of them and get fair value back. Just need some new mgmt with the stones to fix the team......

 

[rumman]

For the price of Marner you could have another Nylander and Muzzin.
Even a 6 mil forward and 4/5 mil defense is huge to add to the core.
And better balance. Plus they can also be harder to play against in terms of battling for pucks, shaking off coverage and hits, etc.

Sad part is Muzzin ain’t getting any younger, he’ll probably be more injury prone going forward and at some point his game will start to decline. Ditto for the slugs that have actually worked out well, I’m thinking Bogo/Spezza who should get offers better than league minimum based on their performances last season?

 

[socko]

I’d like to know just how many more first round losses team Dubas is willing to tolerate before they finally admit paying half your cap to 4 players will not work, can not work? Be interesting to see what toys from misfit island the GM can conger up to fill out the roster next season?

I think it would depend on the 4 players as well. These aren't exactly prime Crosby and Malkin level players. Several tiers lower than that.

 

[rumman]

I would like to be financial advisor for many here. How many times can I lose your money and you keep trusting me.
Apparently going on 6 times.

I don’t understand it either, the guys who like Dubas are also big on analytics, well where’s the logic in not seeing the obvious, that cap distribution needs more balance even at the cost of losing one if not 2 of the shiny play things.........

 

[Trapper]

Sad part is Muzzin ain’t getting any younger, he’ll probably be more injury prone going forward and at some point his game will start to decline. Ditto for the slugs that have actually worked out well, I’m thinking Bogo/Spezza who should get offers better than league minimum based on their performances last season?

Those are just examples. I don’t mean Muzzin in particular.
I mean a 5 million forward, a 5 million D added to Matthews/Tavares or two 4 million forwards and a D.

For example in Tampa Palat makes 5, Gourde makes 5, Sergachev 4. That’s 3 guys at 3 million more than Marner.

 

[rumman]

I think it would depend on the 4 players as well. These aren't exactly prime Crosby and Malkin level players. Several tiers lower than that.

Blasphemy, we have the best players in the world.

 

[Arzak]

I think you're still proposing another imbalance.

Replacing Marner with 1 player who makes 4 million less is still an imbalance.

I don't know the answer, but if we only had Matthews/Tavares making the big money life would be a lot easier. Even easier if they made less than 11 million each.

You can't pass on UFA like Tavares. That being said, you don't have cap for it with your franchise center being Matthews.

I don't get Marners salary at all. Nylander maybe +300k over optimum before playoff upside.


The only way it works, Tavares takes massive discount to fit below Matthews and Marner is only overpaid at 8mil/per year?


If you look at the production, not potential upside, what is the $ figure Marner is performing at now, half way into contract ?

 

[Superstar]

You can't pass on UFA like Tavares. That being said, you don't have cap for it with your franchise center being Matthews.

I don't get Marners salary at all. Nylander maybe +300k over optimum before playoff upside.


The only way it works, Tavares takes massive discount to fit below Matthews and Marner is only overpaid at 8mil/per year?


If you look at the production, not potential upside, what is the $ figure Marner is performing at now, half way into contract ?

Tavares was a prized UFA...he already took millions less to sign with the Leafs...the Isles and the Sharks were offering him more money. You don't think Matthews will get a boat load of money thrown his way if he becomes a UFA?

Marner's contract is the biggest thorn on the side of the Leafs.

 

[Arzak]

Blasphemy, we have the best players in the world.

Matthews got 32 shots after 6 games or something. He is still in the best player in the world category.

bit of context

The last year's Rocket co-winner Pasta went 2 game scoreless after 25 shots. Now after hatty nobody cares he struggled first 2.5 games.


Goalscorers are streaky and when your only threat to score on the line is 34 it gets tough.

 

[Arzak]

Tavares was a prized UFA...he already took millions less to sign with the Leafs...the Isles and the Sharks were offering him more money. You don't think Matthews will get a boat load of money thrown his way if he becomes a UFA?

Marner's contract is the biggest thorn on the side of the Leafs.

He will and I agree. JT already took one for the team. Just don't see how you can have 12.5 mill C on your second line.

Like you said, the most prized UFA in years and I don't see a GM not signing him. It was a stretch with CAP going up every year.


Also true, not of it close to Marner and his non-production.

Problem when dealing Marner, for a contract like that, teams need to get rid of a player or two. The question will always be, how much better my team will be with Marner minus players 2x5mill players I'll be shipping out.

example:
When Bruns were going after JT, they asked Krejci(7mil/per) if he waived to be traded should the deal go through. Even with his two times leading SC in play off and Playoff Krejch nickname, Younger JT is an obvious upgrade, but who is to say how much losing Krejci could hurt. Look at the teams and how they spend their cap, who do you replace on playoff teams with Marner and his hit ?

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Dubas went all in at the deadline. We only have 6 picks over the next 2 years as a team that is right against the cap. As we saw against Montreal, Matthews and Marner simply did not live up to their contracts. I don't think Dubas will move either of them and next season will be the same as this season. I wonder if management realizes this and would want to go in another direction. If Dubas leaves, who would you want as new GM to potentially make the franchise changing trade of someone within the core?

I like Jarmo Kekalainen, but don't think he's available. Maybe Chris Macfarland from Colorado?

If you are going to get rid of the GM (and/or coach), I'd think you'd want to start at the top and move on from Shanahan. He's the guy in charge and hired the GM who in turn made the coaching decision. It starts at the top.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Matthews got 32 shots after 6 games or something. He is still in the best player in the world category.

bit of context

The last year's Rocket co-winner Pasta went 2 game scoreless after 25 shots. Now after hatty nobody cares he struggled first 2.5 games.


Goalscorers are streaky and when your only threat to score on the line is 34 it gets tough.

Sure, but when the player gets the goals is also important. Seems like our guys have a habit of disappearing at the most critical times in the playoffs. Don't know why (have some guesses), but its been happening too often.

I'm not advocating getting rid of Matthews. I'm just noting a trend.

 

[Jarqui]

Leafs pts win% of 68.8% is the best in franchise history.
Even if you take away OT wins, 64.3% is pretty good in franchise history.
Dubas has accumulated a respectable collection of talent.
Dubas tried to address the shortcomings from last year.
I'm not ready to completely condemn him or Shanahan.

I'm reserving judgement until their end of season PC at least and probably beyond that.

 

[darrylsittler27]

Dubad has created a cap mess. He is incompetent. I have done the full analytics on his record. He is hot garbage. Beta males cannot lead.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

You can't pass on UFA like Tavares.

Why is that a given?

Maybe you need a defender more. Maybe that really good defender would cost less and the savings could be used to address other positions elsewhere in the lineup (either immediately or later).

 

[Bomber0104]

You can't pass on UFA like Tavares. That being said, you don't have cap for it with your franchise center being Matthews.

I don't get Marners salary at all. Nylander maybe +300k over optimum before playoff upside.


The only way it works, Tavares takes massive discount to fit below Matthews and Marner is only overpaid at 8mil/per year?


If you look at the production, not potential upside, what is the $ figure Marner is performing at now, half way into contract ?

So if a John Tavares caliber center was available this off-season for $11 million, you'd sign him?

 

[AvroArrow]

Dubas/Keefe have had 1.5 years together in the NHL. Neither are going to be fired yet. They're both here for 1 more year minimum. If there's playoff success next year (LOL) they'll be here a few more, another early exit and I can see at least Dubas being fired after next season. Because of the injuries to JT/Muzzin/Foligno Shanny probably gives Dubas a pass. You can't predict those things but then again this group still should have won.

Keefe needs to learn how to adjust in games, he got out coached by freaking DD. And badly out coached by Torts last year. He's still a young promising NHL coach, like our young promising NHL players. I have been frustrated with him but he deserves more time.

Despite his playoff struggles I don't see management moving 16 yet. This is what needs to happen. Marner needs to start hitting the gym, eat more, get a little beefier. Way too small and soft and he got exposed once again in the POs. Keefe needs to learn from this loss. Learn to make adjustments and learn to use home ice advantage. I like the confidence he has in Matthews, but drop the ego and give your team the best chance to win. Why is Matthews being intentionally lined up against their checking line ? Such a stupid decision, give him the best chance to be successful. Dubas needs to re-tool for next year. We don't have many assets, don't mortgage the future. Robertson likely comes in which gives some cap relief, I'd like to keep Gally I love his effort. Not sure if we can fit him in the cap though.

 

[EK392000]

I agree that the players are responsible as well bet Dubas spent 50% of the cap on 4 forward and I’m not sure they will ever be able to build a team balanced enough to win even a 1st round.
In my opinion is biggest mistake was getting Tavares at 11 million per year. With Marner, Matthews and Nylander on the team Tavares was the last place he needed to bury that much cap space

Pittsburgh won back to back cups not too long ago with a similar roster make up. It’s not impossible to win like that.

 

[hotpaws]

So if a John Tavares caliber center was available this off-season for $11 million, you'd sign him?

wonder why we passed on offering a blank chq to Petro like we did to JT if you can't pass on an elite ufa