Speculation: New GM if We Change Direction

[hotpaws]

Pittsburgh won back to back cups not too long ago with a similar roster make up. It’s not impossible to win like that.

no they didn't , Sid/Geno make 18m combined and they don't have a third player making 9m unlike the Leafs who have 3 forwards making over 33m

also Tavares is no where near the player that Sid and Geno are

 

[Bomber0104]

wonder why we passed on offering a blank chq to Petro like we did to JT if you can't pass on an elite ufa

Exactly what I'm wondering.

 

[ToneDog]

Exactly what I'm wondering.

No way to fit Petro in at 8.5+ without moving a significant piece. We should go after Hamilton and hope we can get him at a COVID discount.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

no they didn't , Sid/Geno make 18m combined and they don't have a third player making 9m unlike the Leafs who have 3 forwards making over 33m

also Tavares is no where near the player that Sid and Geno are

I was always unconvinced that Tavares was the best move. That $11 m might have been better spent on a stud defender at that time. We would have some money left over to address other needs as well, either immediately or a bit later.

Not getting Matthews on a 8-year term was not great either.

 

[Bomber0104]

No way to fit Petro in at 8.5+ without moving a significant piece. We should go after Hamilton and hope we can get him at a COVID discount.

Yeah but according to the gospel of Dubas, you sign first and make it fit later...

 

[Superstar]

I was always unconvinced that Tavares was the best move. That $11 m might have been better spent on a stud defender at that time. We would have some money left over to address other needs as well, either immediately or a bit later.

Not getting Matthews on a 8-year term was not great either.

Matthews and Marner couldn't get pass the Habs without Tavares this year, even though Dubas rebuilt the defense.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Matthews and Marner couldn't get pass the Habs without Tavares this year, even though Dubas rebuilt the defense.

All your saying is there are three (3) problems then.

(Playoff perspective) - Three wrongs don't equal a "right" .......

 

[ANDI P IS CUTE]

marner should be gone for like a dozen reasons.

 

[Superstar]

All your saying is there are three (3) problems then.

(Playoff perspective) - Three wrongs don't equal a "right" .......

I'm saying signing Tavares was the right move...overpaying on Matthews' and Marners' contracts were wrong...and I agree that Matthews' contract term should have been longer. Of course no one expected the pandemic to happen and the flat cap resulting from it, but at the very least, the Leafs should have beaten the Habs...Matthews and Marner just wet the bed down the stretch.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Yeah but according to the gospel of Dubas, you sign first and make it fit later...

And using the idea that Tavares would have gotten more if he signed with another team is tangental as well. The real issue was where was the money best spent or utilized.

If you have a limited budget to operate on (i.e. a salary cap), buying a Lamborghini might not be the best idea even though its cheaper than what other owners paid.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

I'm saying signing Tavares was the right move...overpaying on Matthews' and Marners' contracts were wrong...and I agree that Matthews' contract term should have been longer. Of course no one expected the pandemic to happen and the flat cap resulting from it, but at the very least, the Leafs should have beaten the Habs...Matthews and Marner just wet the bed down the stretch.

Smart financial planners, engineers, etc. plan for bad times as well because those things happen (something that I said several times in here before).

Was it the right move? Hard to say, but maybe not (imho).

 

[HoweHullOrr]

No way to fit Petro in at 8.5+ without moving a significant piece. We should go after Hamilton and hope we can get him at a COVID discount.

Yes, now that is the case.

I think the posters you replied to were thinking about that concept and applying it to an earlier timeframe (i.e., prior to the offseason last summer).

 

[Superstar]

Smart financial planners, engineers, etc. plan for bad times as well because those things happen (something that I said several times in here before).

Was it the right move? Hard to say imho, but maybe not.

Which smart folks planned for the pandemic? Was Dubas supposed to plan for Kadri getting himself suspended twice in the playoffs too (and I'm not making excuses for Dubas). The Leafs had the cap room to fit Tavares...got an elite #1 C for only money...I think it was the right move.

 

[yort2010]

Maple Leafs autopsy thoughts: Where did it go wrong and what's next? - Sportsnet.ca

This is a decent article. Reading it about the PP makes me wonder if we should replace Keefe and not Manny.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Which smart folks planned for the pandemic? Was Dubas supposed to plan for Kadri getting himself suspended twice in the playoffs too (and I'm not making excuses for Dubas). The Leafs had the cap room to fit Tavares...got an elite #1 C for only money...I think it was the right move.

Planning for worst case scenarios is something that is done in many professions as standard practice. The clients of such professions (and their companies) demand that is done, and when mistakes happen, there are consequences such as error and omission lawsuits. That's where I was coming from (as I've said this before but was ignored) and its not unusual. There are many different kinds of worse case (real world) scenarios beyond just a pandemic e.g., a recession, etc.

You can defend your position as you are entitled to it (everyone is) and its certainly a popular opinion, but the consequences of that approach are having a big impact. I don't think we'll gain much from additional conversation (that's my guess).

 

[Bomber0104]

And using the idea that Tavares would have gotten more if he signed with another team is tangental as well. The real issue was where was the money best spent or utilized.

If you have a limited budget to operate on (i.e. a salary cap), buying a Lamborghini might not be the best idea even though its cheaper than what other owners paid.

I actually crunched the numbers.

The Leafs could actually take on as many as 6 players making $11 million each and then fill out the rest with league minimum players...

I wonder if that's Dubas' dream scenario?

 

[HoweHullOrr]

I actually crunched the numbers.

The Leafs could actually take on as many as 6 players making $11 million each and then fill out the rest with league minimum players...

I wonder if that's Dubas' dream scenario?

LOL. I remember a thread in here several years ago with that same subject.

 

[Gallagbi]

Smart financial planners, engineers, etc. plan for bad times as well because those things happen (something that I said several times in here before).

Was it the right move? Hard to say, but maybe not (imho).

Seems like they've built in some planning with the contracts and how they're structured, the question is whether they want to leverage it or roll the dice again.

This team can make cap space if they want. Every contract on the team with the exception of Tavares (because of NTC) is easily moveable

 

[sxvnert]

Shanny put all his eggs into the dubas basket. You'll need to fire the entire group.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Seems like they've built in some planning with the contracts and how they're structured, the question is whether they want to leverage it or roll the dice again.

This team can make cap space if they want. Every contract on the team with the exception of Tavares (because of NTC) is easily moveable

You make a reasonable point.

There are other NMCs though: Muzzin, Brodie. There are also some M-NTCs (e.g. Rielly, etc.).

 

[Superstar]

Planning for worst case scenarios is something that is done in many professions as standard practice. The clients of such professions (and their companies) demand that is done, and when mistakes happen, there are consequences such as error and omission lawsuits. That's where I was coming from (as I've said this before but was ignored) and its not unusual. There are many different kinds of worse case (real world) scenarios beyond just a pandemic e.g., a recession, etc.

You can defend your position as you are entitled to it (everyone is) and its certainly a popular opinion, but the consequences of that approach are having a big impact. I don't think we'll gain much from additional conversation (that's my guess).

You could try to plan all you want, but nobody could actually predict the future, and I don't think Dubas and the Leafs organization weren't planning...they probably wanted to win the Cup during the tenure of Tavares' contract (and during the prime years of Nylander, Matthews and Marner) so they signed him because they think he gives the Leafs the best chance to win.

 

[Thissiteisgarbage]

Can't bring myself to cheer for Marner ever again. What a con job.
He needs to go.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

You could try to plan all you want, but nobody could actually predict the future, and I don't think Dubas and the Leafs organization weren't planning...they probably wanted to win the Cup during the tenure of Tavares' contract (and during the prime years of Nylander, Matthews and Marner) so they signed him because they think he gives the Leafs the best chance to win.

Good planning is what smart people and companies do. The entire insurance industry is predicated on covering worse case scenarios and they've made billions from millions of people who have bought into this principle. We can go back and forth on this, but I don't that will have much merit.

 

[Gallagbi]

You make a reasonable point.

There are other NMCs though: Muzzin, Brodie. There are also some M-NTCs (e.g. Rielly, etc.).

I believe they're all modified with Brodie's being the only backloaded deal. Mo and Muzz are both $3m/yr for the remainder of their contracts (averaged)

So really it looks like a lot of flexibility. I don't doubt the team planned for growth like most people, but there's some options they built in as protection

 

[Superstar]

Good planning is what smart people and companies do. The entire insurance industry is predicated on covering worse case scenarios and they've made billions from millions of people who have bought into this principle. We can go back and forth on this, but I don't that will have much merit.

That's fine, no problem...we don't need to agree on everything, lol.