New GM Discussion Thread

[JLP]

Molson is afraid of admitting how he was stupid giving a 5-year extension to a guy like that. And people Wonder why we don't have confidence in the owner too.....5 years to Bergevin, agreed to 5 years of Julien...insane management.

G. Molson came in with as little business experience as his Bergy had with general managing. (Yes I know he was in charge of a division of the family business that was a largely ceremonial position I'm told).

Molson knows the Qc media love Bergy (and Therrien) so as long as the media is telling the masses everything is fine, then Molson is fine and why not? Give the customer what they want.

I think only the media fully turning on him will seal Bergy's fate. Sad because after years of cheerleading for Bergy the damage is already done; and sad because the Qc media will probably play a huge role in anointing Bergy's successor, who will most likely be a like-minded member of their clan and not the disruptor that's needed to bring a breath of fresh air to the org.

 

[Doc McKenna]

Sorry. A guy who doesn't understand the values and culture of 80% of his clientele, is due to fail at some point.

Mr. Molson is indeed fully bilingual and a born Montrealer, but his hockey knowledgse and leadership qualities are subpar in the HOCKEY world.

So you are ignoring the millions of hab fans outside the province entirely. I doubt the fans in quebec are 80% french as their first language.

 

[JLP]

So you are ignoring the millions of hab fans outside the province entirely. I doubt the fans in quebec are 80% french as their first language.

I'm told all Franco-Quebecois love the Habs because they replaced the Catholic Church at the very centre of the national identity. Bergevin is like an Archbishop ;-)

 

[Rapala]

More like Cardinal Richelieu.

 

[ECWHSWI]

So you are ignoring the millions of hab fans outside the province entirely. I doubt the fans in quebec are 80% french as their first language.

I don't know where you're from or if visit QC occasionnaly, but just so you know, outside Montreal it's pretty much french all over, you do not need to know a single word of english... ouside a few villages in outaouais, close to Ont obviously.

 

[ECWHSWI]

You want to look at it with Franco/Anglo players. The NHL has roughly 45% Canadians and 27% Americans players in the NHL. Quebecois represent something like 5%. Their representation in the GM and head coaching ranks is still higher than their ratio of players in the league.

not arguing wether there should be more franco coaches/GMs in the NHL.

just the idea that country A has twice the # of citizens than country B so there should be twice as many players/coaches/etc in a particular sport coming from country A.

 

[ECWHSWI]

This whole not rebuild is crap and every sane person knows that. Are we rebuilding now? Strange....aren't there more seats that are unoccupied? Are people not booing the team and laughing at their best player? Are those signs that people are having fun and are NOT putting up with what we're seeing? What does NOT putting up with rebuild mean? People will stop going totally? There will be 20000 empty seats? People will stop watching? Okay..so what..if that lasts 2 years...the day that this team becomes relevant really in 3 years...they will NOT come back ever? For real? In a city when the only sport we have and like is hockey? In a world where we suck at football, suck at soccer and don't have baseball? Just more excuses to only say "I, AS AN OWNER, don't want to put up with the possibility that I'll be losing money".

Whoever dicided not to put up with a rebuild in TO, EDM, CHI, WSH and such changed their mind instantly after watching Kane, OV, Crosby, McDavid, Mathews, etc on T.V.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Yeah, frankly as fans we need to find a way to destroy the narrative that we are not okay with a rebuild.

I mean.. rah rah we blew a 3-0 lead and victimized Pavalec and beat other great goalies in Reimer and Lehner. We are on our way to the cup, boyzz!!!! true fans UNITE!!

 

[NotProkofievian]

Yeah, frankly as fans we need to find a way to destroy the narrative that we are not okay with a rebuild.

I mean.. rah rah we blew a 3-0 lead and victimized Pavalec and beat other great goalies in Reimer and Lehner. We are on our way to the cup, boyzz!!!! true fans UNITE!!

It's the dumbest shit I've ever heard. We wouldn't tolerate a rebuild? Anyone who says that should be sat down and clockwork-oranged to watch Rasmus Dahlin and Andrei Svechnikov clips, and then reminded that people have spend hundreds of dollars each on Weise jerseys.

 

[ECWHSWI]

It's the dumbest **** I've ever heard. We wouldn't tolerate a rebuild? Anyone who says that should be sat down and clockwork-oranged to watch Rasmus Dahlin and Andrei Svechnikov clips, and then reminded that people have spend hundreds of dollars each on Weise jerseys.

Yup, and they can even look at the last few years to see who were the top picks, not only the #1 overall, but #2 like Eichel, #8 Werenski, #4 Marner, #3 Draisatl, #9 Ehler, #14 Wennberg, #11 Forsberg, #7 Scheifele, #4 RyJo...

lets be real here, as much as people believed the "once you're in" mantra, they would for sure LOVE to see Drouin playing with a Pastrnek or a Ehler calibre player on his side...

or watch a younger version of Karlsson go end to end to score one top corner or something...



Habs had ONE superstar forward in the last 20 years, and no offense to him but it wasnt close to a Crosby or a McDavid, yet he was so popular he played in an episode of a TV serie, was a guest in a few talk shows, sold hockey DVDs...

Lets be honest with ourselves here, watching McDavid or Crosby/Malkin play or watching our team barely beat one of the worst teams in the league ?

 

[Lshap]

Yup, and they can even look at the last few years to see who were the top picks, not only the #1 overall, but #2 like Eichel, #8 Werenski, #4 Marner, #3 Draisatl, #9 Ehler, #14 Wennberg, #11 Forsberg, #7 Scheifele, #4 RyJo...

lets be real here, as much as people believed the "once you're in" mantra, they would for sure LOVE to see Drouin playing with a Pastrnek or a Ehler calibre player on his side...

or watch a younger version of Karlsson go end to end to score one top corner or something...



Habs had ONE superstar forward in the last 20 years, and no offense to him but it wasnt close to a Crosby or a McDavid, yet he was so popular he played in an episode of a TV serie, was a guest in a few talk shows, sold hockey DVDs...

Lets be honest with ourselves here, watching McDavid or Crosby/Malkin play or watching our team barely beat one of the worst teams in the league ?

Very good points. The main point that needs repeating is that the Habs don't need to be the absolute worst team in the league. It's not Dahlin or nothing. As you said, there's an all-star team of picks in the top-10, provided you pick smart and develop them well. Two or three years of this will make a big difference.

A tank isn't realistic, forget Dahlin, but if management/ownership lets go of the Win-Now idea, they can position themselves for better, if not amazing, picks, and look at their present roster as tradable assets for upcoming talent.

The key to all of this, of course, is scouting. The diamonds are there in the top 5 to 15, but you need expertise to pick them. Unless you're really, REALLY lucky and snag a no-brainer pick like Matthews or McDavid, any rebuild depends on how good & lucky your scouts are.

 

[Doc McKenna]

I don't know where you're from or if visit QC occasionnaly, but just so you know, outside Montreal it's pretty much french all over, you do not need to know a single word of english... ouside a few villages in outaouais, close to Ont obviously.

I am well aware of your demographics, and knew someone would chirp me with this. Now how about addressing the millions of fans outside of quebec. I know to some quebecois we don't count as fans, but we are just as rabid if not more so about the team. You have to be when living in enemy territory.

 

[Doc McKenna]

Very good points. The main point that needs repeating is that the Habs don't need to be the absolute worst team in the league. It's not Dahlin or nothing. As you said, there's an all-star team of picks in the top-10, provided you pick smart and develop them well. Two or three years of this will make a big difference.

A tank isn't realistic, forget Dahlin, but if management/ownership lets go of the Win-Now idea, they can position themselves for better, if not amazing, picks, and look at their present roster as tradable assets for upcoming talent.

The key to all of this, of course, is scouting. The diamonds are there in the top 5 to 15, but you need expertise to pick them. Unless you're really, REALLY lucky and snag a no-brainer pick like Matthews or McDavid, any rebuild depends on how good & lucky your scouts are.

I think we draft OK(maybe not amazing) but we need a better dev staff for sure. And as you mentioned just because you don't get that generational talent doesn't mean you can't stock up on picks and try to nail down Gally, Markov with late picks and make the most of your lower number ones (2-10 OA)

 

[LaP]

You can't force a tank anyway. If the team wins then it wins. But like Lshap said the win now mentality must change. In fact there's nothing wrong with win now. Our problem is make playoffs now instead of win now. We focus way too much on just making the playoffs.

For example Plekanec should be traded at the deadline. If history repeats itself he will probably not be. We should listen to offer on Byron. I have nothing against Byron be he's gonna be 29 next spring and he's not a guy you win with if he's in your top 6. If someone is willing to pay a 1st for him he should be moved.

Asking your drafting team to draft elite talent with 4-5 picks a year while trading your 2nd or 3rd is just unrealistic. If you're not willing to unload for picks some guys having good value for winning team lacking some depth and not as much value for you because you lack elite skills then you're doing it wrong imo.

Trades like Shaw hurt us a lot. Losing guys ufa for nothing while not winning hurts us a lot too.

 

[Lshap]

I think we draft OK(maybe not amazing) but we need a better dev staff for sure. And as you mentioned just because you don't get that generational talent doesn't mean you can't stock up on picks and try to nail down Gally, Markov with late picks and make the most of your lower number ones (2-10 OA)

Yeah, better development's definitely been a 'thing' here. There's a valid argument that you can only squeeze so much out of late-round picks, but still, up until this season the Habs have had the worst record in the league for developing picks. Even eliminating all top-5 picks, we've still developed the fewest picks into NHL players. That's a damning statistic no matter where your picks are.

The 'good news' about sucking and getting higher picks is we would minimize AHL development. The very top picks often skip directly into the NHL, while many early picks only need a year of AHL before they're ready. Either way, these are higher-quality players who'd have a much better chance of making an impact.

 

[Lshap]

You can't force a tank anyway. If the team wins then it wins. But like Lshap said the win now mentality must change. In fact there's nothing wrong with win now. Our problem is make playoffs now instead of win now. We focus way too much on just making the playoffs.

For example Plekanec should be traded at the deadline. If history repeats itself he will probably not be. We should listen to offer on Byron. I have nothing against Byron be he's gonna be 29 next spring and he's not a guy you win with if he's in your top 6. If someone is willing to pay a 1st for him he should be moved.

Asking your drafting team to draft elite talent with 4-5 picks a year while trading your 2nd or 3rd is just unrealistic. If you're not willing to unload for picks some guys having good value for winning team lacking some depth and not as much value for you because you lack elite skills then you're doing it wrong imo.

Trades like Shaw hurt us a lot. Losing guys ufa for nothing while not winning hurts us a lot too.

I was all for win-now, until the off-season ended. Last year's team was good, and the picks we got for Eller looked gift-wrapped for a trade deadline deal for a top forward. That's why I didn't mind Shaw -- he looked like a valuable piece for a playoff run. But inexplicably the TDL deal for a forward never happened, and sure enough we walked into the playoffs firing blanks.

I would've doubled down on 'win-now' this season if Bergevin had stocked up on offence during the summer. But that never happened either. And so here we are, with half the roster built for Win Now! and the other half still under construction.

 

[CrAzYNiNe]

I was all for win-now, until the off-season ended. Last year's team was good, and the picks we got for Eller looked gift-wrapped for a trade deadline deal for a top forward. That's why I didn't mind Shaw -- he looked like a valuable piece for a playoff run. But inexplicably the TDL deal for a forward never happened, and sure enough we walked into the playoffs firing blanks.

I would've doubled down on 'win-now' this season if Bergevin had stocked up on offence during the summer. But that never happened either. And so here we are, with half the roster built for Win Now! and the other half still under construction.

Sounds like a failing grade when you miss the exam on the back side of the paper... Time for a change.

 

[LaP]

I was all for win-now, until the off-season ended. Last year's team was good, and the picks we got for Eller looked gift-wrapped for a trade deadline deal for a top forward. That's why I didn't mind Shaw -- he looked like a valuable piece for a playoff run. But inexplicably the TDL deal for a forward never happened, and sure enough we walked into the playoffs firing blanks.

I would've doubled down on 'win-now' this season if Bergevin had stocked up on offence during the summer. But that never happened either. And so here we are, with half the roster built for Win Now! and the other half still under construction.

The team looks like half Gainey and half Houle

 

[Lshap]

Sounds like a failing grade when you miss the exam on the back side of the paper... Time for a change.

Not a bad metaphor, though I'd guess Bergevin was fully aware of the flip side of the exam. He just never studied for it and left the page blank.

 

[CrAzYNiNe]

Not a bad metaphor, though I'd guess Bergevin was fully aware of the flip side of the exam. He just never studied for it and left the page blank.

I'm a proponent of his ignorance, arrogance and down right egomaniac. He is the idiot that stands up in the exam after 20 minutes while everyone stares at him with a wtf face and he pops his collar and walks out. 2 hours later when everyone else leaves, he finds out he missed half the page, so he hides behind a plant. True story.

 

[NotProkofievian]

You can't force a tank anyway. If the team wins then it wins. But like Lshap said the win now mentality must change. In fact there's nothing wrong with win now. Our problem is make playoffs now instead of win now. We focus way too much on just making the playoffs.

For example Plekanec should be traded at the deadline. If history repeats itself he will probably not be. We should listen to offer on Byron. I have nothing against Byron be he's gonna be 29 next spring and he's not a guy you win with if he's in your top 6. If someone is willing to pay a 1st for him he should be moved.

Asking your drafting team to draft elite talent with 4-5 picks a year while trading your 2nd or 3rd is just unrealistic. If you're not willing to unload for picks some guys having good value for winning team lacking some depth and not as much value for you because you lack elite skills then you're doing it wrong imo.

Trades like Shaw hurt us a lot. Losing guys ufa for nothing while not winning hurts us a lot too.

This is the thing that gets me. Like, okay we'll just take our top 10 picks as they come. But at least acquire some more picks than you started with, especially when you're ''building through the draft.'' Yeah we have 3 2nd this year, but we've had to wait to make them. And we never acquire extra firsts. Last time we had multiple firsts it worked out pretty well IIRC.

There's really been one hole in our scouting. In 15 years, Drouin is the forward with the highest hockey IQ we've had on our team, and we didn't draft him. Timmins has done so well in other aspects of the game. Honestly, if he had connected on one of the list of high impact forwards from 2003 until now, who knows what might have happened. We've beat this dead horse before, but the list of names is a long and painful one. For whatever reason we're just not able to connect on first line forwards, much less collect the preponderance of them that's needed to compete for a cup.

 

[NotProkofievian]

You guys remember that website ''didscottgomezscorelastnight''? Someone should make ''did8millionincapspacescorelastnight.com'' with the same idea in mind. Big red and white block letters ''NO'' with a timer counting how long Bergevin lets this situation persist.

 

[Draft]

I am well aware of your demographics, and knew someone would chirp me with this. Now how about addressing the millions of fans outside of quebec. I know to some quebecois we don't count as fans, but we are just as rabid if not more so about the team. You have to be when living in enemy territory.

I live in Western Canada and grew up here and I appreciate that I can watch interviews of coaches and GMs in both languages and watch games in French. Being able to have a uniquely francophone cultural institution run by francophone people is exceptionally unique and rare outside of QC. If you're from a French/Metis community outside of QC, it can still be important. It's part of the culture and history of the team and it matters to a lot of fans, media, ownership, and management.

If you want a team with no culture or traditions, tickets to games are really cheap in Florida.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I live in Western Canada and grew up here and I appreciate that I can watch interviews of coaches and GMs in both languages and watch games in French. Being able to have a uniquely francophone cultural institution run by francophone people is exceptionally unique and rare outside of QC. If you're from a French/Metis community outside of QC, it can still be important. It's part of the culture and history of the team and it matters to a lot of fans, media, ownership, and management.

If you want a team with no culture or traditions, tickets to games are really cheap in Florida.

But if you were given the choice to have a coach and GM that didn't speak french and win a Stanley Cup, or have a coach and GM that speaks French and never win a cup, which option would you choose?

I know they are not mutually exclusive, let's leave that our for now.

I'd say the real part of the culture and the history of the team was being the innovators, those with the highest skill level and pushing the league forward with new winning methodology.

Montreal and Quebec was once a hot bed of hockey, churning our talent in coaching, managing and players. It's not that way anymore. The landscape has changed and Molson is doing NOTHING to help that, other than hiring people who have been brought up through a barren landscape and the ones who actually were promising? Boucher and Brisebois? They were the ones we let go.

 

[CrAzYNiNe]

I live in Western Canada and grew up here and I appreciate that I can watch interviews of coaches and GMs in both languages and watch games in French. Being able to have a uniquely francophone cultural institution run by francophone people is exceptionally unique and rare outside of QC. If you're from a French/Metis community outside of QC, it can still be important. It's part of the culture and history of the team and it matters to a lot of fans, media, ownership, and management.

If you want a team with no culture or traditions, tickets to games are really cheap in Florida.

I want a winning team to continue the winning culture of the Montreal Canadiens. The language is of no importance to anyone who actually cares about the product on the ice.

It's not the fact that they spoke french that made them the envy of the NHL, it's because they couldn't be stopped and continued to win Stanley Cups.