Blue Jays Discussion: New Contract offer to Vladdy? Berrios opening Day pitcher

[Discoverer]

Schneider had a fantastic spring. He deserves a spot as much as Barger does.

I really wanted to see Yarbrough make the team, especially with the lack of a clearly better LHP option for the pen. But let's not pretend it's some huge loss. He had a very good 31 innings with the Jays. What has he done beyond that? Before the trade, he had a decent ERA and horrible peripherals with the Dodgers. Before that, he had three straight years with an ERA of at least 4.5.

I think people are mostly just overreacting to a couple good months last year.

 

[Bjindaho]

Great move Atkins. Strengthen the opposition with a cut that would have made our team better had he been kept. He and Barger should be on opening day roster. Not sure what players like Schneider or other BP pieces have done to warrant a spot over them.

I really hope this doesnt bite us in the ass.

Yarbrough's improvement from LA to Toronto was entirely driven by his 4 seam fastball (which he threw more often) and specifically using it get to 0-1 counts. He struggled this spring at throwing first pitch strikes (and was delayed ramping up), so there was a risk factor there.

 

[BlueForever75]

Schneider had a fantastic spring. He deserves a spot as much as Barger does.

I really wanted to see Yarbrough make the team, especially with the lack of a clearly better LHP option for the pen. But let's not pretend it's some huge loss. He had a very good 31 innings with the Jays. What has he done beyond that? Before the trade, he had a decent ERA and horrible peripherals with the Dodgers. Before that, he had three straight years with an ERA of at least 4.5.

I think people are mostly just overreacting to a couple good months last year.

Schneider is redundant. When you bring Wagner and Clement along to start the season, Schneider should have been used as a trade chip. Especially with his strong spring. They should have dealt him for a piece needed. He along with a prospect or bullpen piece could have definitely brought you an upgrade over Straw and Lukes in the OF. Someone that brings a little more offense.

But I guess we will see.

 

[Bjindaho]

Lovelady gave up 3 homers which does an absolute number of his ERA (and also struggled with strike one). He has two very good pitches and one not-so-good pitch based on pitch modeling, so the stats may not tell the full story.

Little outpitched his peripherals by a lot. He also has the 2 good pitches and one not-so-good one.

Yarbrough needed his 4 seamer to do almost all of the lifting, whereas Lovelady and Little should throw as few 4 seamers as possible. Both have some potential to be effective lefties (albeit groundball heavy guys).

Barnes is an odd duck where he basically throws fastball and cutter (like Mariano Rivera). He doesn't strike out a lot of guys but that's a pretty difficult combination to put in play.

Sandlin has extremely high potential (kinda like Trevor Richards) in that his stuff can generate a lot of ugly swings, but he needs to throw strikes.

Little has an option so if he struggles, he could be sent down. Lovelady does not, so he's a DFA candidate if he can't figure out how to make his pitches work. Barnes is a guy that projections are always going to undervalue, but there is also a risk of implosion.

Burr, Pop and Swanson also have no options, so they will also be candidates to knock 3 of the BP arms off the roster when they come back (especially Burr and Swanson).

 

[Bjindaho]

Schneider is redundant. When you bring Wagner and Clement along to start the season, Schneider should have been used as a trade chip. Especially with his strong spring. They should have dealt him for a piece needed. He along with a prospect or bullpen piece could have definitely brought you an upgrade over Straw and Lukes in the OF. Someone that brings a little more offense.

But I guess we will see.

Schneider is literally the player that you would go after for your "more offense".

His limited value is that he's a bat-first multi-position player.

One of Clement or Wagner has to play 3B every day. That means that you only have 2 backup infielders,

Also, what the heck are you talking about about a better offensive OF? Roden is starting in LF (offense) and one of Straw/Lukes is keeping Varsho's spot warm.

 

[BlueForever75]

Schneider is literally the player that you would go after for your "more offense".

His limited value is that he's a bat-first multi-position player.

One of Clement or Wagner has to play 3B every day. That means that you only have 2 backup infielders,

Also, what the heck are you talking about about a better offensive OF? Roden is starting in LF (offense) and one of Straw/Lukes is keeping Varsho's spot warm.

Something tells me Schneider does not start Roden in LF even though he should. My guess is Schneider will be there and thats an issue. If Roden should start anywhere it should be in RF and Springer in LF with Straw in CF until Varsho comes back.

But wouldnt be surprised to see Springer-Straw-Santander starting Thursday's opener with Roden/Schneider/Wagner as DH.

Cause thats what Jays do

 

[Bjindaho]

Something tells me Schneider does not start Roden in LF even though he should. My guess is Schneider will be there and thats an issue. If Roden should start anywhere it should be in RF and Springer in LF with Straw in CF until Varsho comes back.

But wouldnt be surprised to see Springer-Straw-Santander starting Thursday's opener with Roden/Schneider/Wagner as DH.

Cause thats what Jays do

Roden primarily plays LF.

Schneider might start against the first lefty that comes up in LF.

 

[trellaine201]

Hope Yarborough haunts us!

 

[Discoverer]

Something tells me Schneider does not start Roden in LF even though he should. My guess is Schneider will be there and thats an issue. If Roden should start anywhere it should be in RF and Springer in LF with Straw in CF until Varsho comes back.

But wouldnt be surprised to see Springer-Straw-Santander starting Thursday's opener with Roden/Schneider/Wagner as DH.

Cause thats what Jays do

The opening day lineup isn't that important because, especially with a roster construction like the Jays have, guys will be in and out and moving around all the time.

Roden has basically split his minor league innings between RF and LF. What makes him a better fit in RF over Santander and Springer, who have both spent the majority of their major league careers there?

 

[Suntouchable13]

Hope Yarborough haunts us!

LAD got rid of him for Kiermaier. That tells you all you need to know about him. He won't be haunting anyone. If LAD don't want him, and they had a ton of pitching injuries last year, then you know he ain't good.

 

[habamillions]

Hope Yarborough haunts us!

Probably will he signed with the yankees

 

[BlueForever75]

The opening day lineup isn't that important because, especially with a roster construction like the Jays have, guys will be in and out and moving around all the time.

Roden has basically split his minor league innings between RF and LF. What makes him a better fit in RF over Santander and Springer, who have both spent the majority of their major league careers there?

The fact that Roden is actually better defensively then the other 2. Springer is slowing down and his arm strength is better suited for LF. Why do you think he was taken out of CF where he always played. He's not the same player.

As for Santander, he is not a RF. He's a DH/LF that can be hidden out there. We need his bat. We didnt get him for his D.

 

[MS]

Santander is a bad fielder and the roster would probably be most optimized with him as a full-time DH, but they've almost certainly made playing time promises in LF in order to get him to sign.

 

[Discoverer]

The fact that Roden is actually better defensively then the other 2. Springer is slowing down and his arm strength is better suited for LF. Why do you think he was taken out of CF where he always played. He's not the same player.

As for Santander, he is not a RF. He's a DH/LF that can be hidden out there. We need his bat. We didnt get him for his D.

Based on what? It's certainly possible, but what have you actually seen from Roden that suggests he's better defensively?

Springer remains a roughly average defensive RF. Santander was always a disaster when they put him in LF and surprisingly adequate when he was in RF. If you're going to hide him somewhere, why would you hide him where he's a worse defender?

I would like to see both Springer and Santander get plenty of time at DH, but having both of them in the OF means Wagner's bat is in the lineup more often. Right now, the optimized lineup is probably Springer in CF with Santander and Roden in the corners and Wagner at DH.

 

[shortfuze]

Hope Yarborough haunts us!

thats the spirit! yeesh

 

[MS]

Schneider had a fantastic spring. He deserves a spot as much as Barger does.

I really wanted to see Yarbrough make the team, especially with the lack of a clearly better LHP option for the pen. But let's not pretend it's some huge loss. He had a very good 31 innings with the Jays. What has he done beyond that? Before the trade, he had a decent ERA and horrible peripherals with the Dodgers. Before that, he had three straight years with an ERA of at least 4.5.

I think people are mostly just overreacting to a couple good months last year.

It's not that he's a big loss or that I think his performance last year is sustainable.

I'm just looking at the Scherzer situation and the SP depth behind him and it seems very likely that at some point we're going to be needing a bulk guy. Yarbrough has a pretty good track record of being able to eat up 100-120 innings at a 4.25ish ERA and that's a hell of a useful thing, moreso to me than just having a mediocre 1-inning reliever like Barnes.

I like having flexible multiple-inning sort of arms in the bullpen. Even just being able to put a guy like this in for 4 innings during a blowout saves a bunch of other guys for the next day.

 

[Bjindaho]

It's not that he's a big loss or that I think his performance last year is sustainable.

I'm just looking at the Scherzer situation and the SP depth behind him and it seems very likely that at some point we're going to be needing a bulk guy. Yarbrough has a pretty good track record of being able to eat up 100-120 innings at a 4.25ish ERA and that's a hell of a useful thing, moreso to me than just having a mediocre 1-inning reliever like Barnes.

I like having flexible multiple-inning sort of arms in the bullpen. Even just being able to put a guy like this in for 4 innings during a blowout saves a bunch of other guys for the next day.

For the first month of the season, that is Yariel Rodriguez. After a bit, you get into possibly calling up a starter if need be (with some actual AAA depth). On top of that, Chad Green has had success in the past at being a bulk reliever and could probably do it again.

 

[MS]

For the first month of the season, that is Yariel Rodriguez. After a bit, you get into possibly calling up a starter if need be (with some actual AAA depth). On top of that, Chad Green has had success in the past at being a bulk reliever and could probably do it again.

Chad Green post-TJS at age 33 is a one-inning guy at this point, full stop.

Rodriguez starts there, but then if Scherzer goes down (which seems highly likely given his health over the past few seasons and warning signs already) he goes into the rotation and needs to be replaced.

I just don't think a guy like Barnes for one inning vs. Yarbrough for 1 inning justifies keeping Barnes over Yarbrough's much greater overall flexibility. It's not like they cut Yarbrough to keep legitimately good 1-inning guys or young pitchers with upside. Barnes is 35 years old and has an ERA+ of 80 over the past 5 years. We've had him here before. He just isn't very good. And it's also not even like Barnes or Lovelady had really good springs and 'won the job' - both were smoked with 6+ ERAs while Yarbrough was usual Yarbrough.

And to be clear : in the big picture it's a pretty small deal. But it's one of those small things where you have a sneaking suspicion that 6 weeks from now we'll be like 'ah, man'.

 

[The Iceman]

The fact that Roden is actually better defensively then the other 2. Springer is slowing down and his arm strength is better suited for LF. Why do you think he was taken out of CF where he always played. He's not the same player.

As for Santander, he is not a RF. He's a DH/LF that can be hidden out there. We need his bat. We didnt get him for his D.

Springer played amazing defense last season. His D is not an issue in any way.

 

[Bjindaho]

Chad Green post-TJS at age 33 is a one-inning guy at this point, full stop.

Rodriguez starts there, but then if Scherzer goes down (which seems highly likely given his health over the past few seasons and warning signs already) he goes into the rotation and needs to be replaced.

I just don't think a guy like Barnes for one inning vs. Yarbrough for 1 inning justifies keeping Barnes over Yarbrough's much greater overall flexibility. It's not like they cut Yarbrough to keep legitimately good 1-inning guys or young pitchers with upside. Barnes is 35 years old and has an ERA+ of 80 over the past 5 years. We've had him here before. He just isn't very good.

I don't think it was Barnes vs Yarbrough. I think it was Barnes vs Nance and Lovelady vs Yarbrough and they chose Barnes and Lovelady.

Keep in mind that Barnes is likely keeping Tate's spot warm (he could be up within a week or two) and Lovelady is likely keeping Swanson's spot warm (he is likely going to have his IL stint backdated, meaning that he misses 12 days.

So choosing Lovelady over Yarbrough could have been a favor if they expect to lose both soon. Barnes vs Nance could be the same thing, but I could see a minor league offer for Nance to try to bring him back (and potentially call him up later).

 

[PanniniClaus]

Anything this team does this year, on the field or off, has little to do with Ryan Yarborough. Signing Kirk early is maybe a sign we will do things differently.

Blair and Barker are having a big argument over signing Kirk. I'm with Blair.

 

[MS]

I don't think it was Barnes vs Yarbrough. I think it was Barnes vs Nance and Lovelady vs Yarbrough and they chose Barnes and Lovelady.

Keep in mind that Barnes is likely keeping Tate's spot warm (he could be up within a week or two) and Lovelady is likely keeping Swanson's spot warm (he is likely going to have his IL stint backdated, meaning that he misses 12 days.

So choosing Lovelady over Yarbrough could have been a favor if they expect to lose both soon. Barnes vs Nance could be the same thing, but I could see a minor league offer for Nance to try to bring him back (and potentially call him up later).

Injuries will keep happening. I'd be stunned if we had a fully healthy bullpen at any point this season. I don't think you can make decisions based on 'well, this is what would happen if every single guy is healthy 2 months from now'.

Ryan Yarbrough is a better MLB pitcher than Jacob Barnes. He's statistically out-performed him for 6 straight years, and by a wide margin most of those years. He statistically outperformed him this spring. He's also much more versatile. Don't overthink shit and just keep the better player.

 

[Bjindaho]

Anything this team does this year, on the field or off, has little to do with Ryan Yarborough. Signing Kirk early is maybe a sign we will do things differently.

Blair and Barker are having a big argument over signing Kirk. I'm with Blair.

What is there to argue over?

There are 4 catchers making more than his 11.6M this year. Every catcher close to him in terms of performance either makes more or hasn't hit free agency yet. After that, D'arnaud, Trevino and Jansen are the next 3 catchers who make less.

At 5 years, it is a very good length in time, where he is likely going to be able to catch that whole period, and where they can decide whether he should get another contract with better information.

 

[canucksfan]

The only benefit of keeping Yarborough is he can be a bulk reliever. They do have one already though with Yariel.

 

[Eyedea]

Anything this team does this year, on the field or off, has little to do with Ryan Yarborough. Signing Kirk early is maybe a sign we will do things differently.

Blair and Barker are having a big argument over signing Kirk. I'm with Blair.

Is Barker against the signing?

I have a hard time believing Kirk’s 11.6m AAV is bad business for the team. I remember when Martin signed and that was looked at as an overpayment on AAV + term, meanwhile we essentially got full value of the contract over those first 3 seasons.

All it takes is for Kirk to continue hitting like he did in the 2nd half last year and in ST to be more than worth his salary. He doesn’t even have to be at the level he was in ‘22, which he’s still fully capable of repeating.