Blue Jays Discussion: New Contract offer to Vladdy? Berrios opening Day pitcher

[shaner8989]

The argument is committing to an obese catcher who is at risk of being injured and or performing horribly.

 

[canucksfan]

The argument is committing to an obese catcher who is at risk of being injured and or performing horribly.

Kirk is an elite defensive catcher. He has been healthy for the majority of his career. His second half last season was great and spring training was good.

It's a fairly low-risk contract.

 

[PanniniClaus]

Is Barker against the signing?

I have a hard time believing Kirk’s 11.6m AAV is bad business for the team. I remember when Martin signed and that was looked at as an overpayment on AAV + term, meanwhile we essentially got full value of the contract over those first 3 seasons.

All it takes is for Kirk to continue hitting like he did in the 2nd half last year and in ST to be more than worth his salary. He doesn’t even have to be at the level he was in ‘22, which he’s still fully capable of repeating.

Barker didn't like it. Blair tore into him for talking out of both sides of his mouth. Contracts never get cheaper.. it is waiting that has us in the mess we are in now.

 

[Bjindaho]

Barker didn't like it. Blair tore into him for talking out of both sides of his mouth. Contracts never get cheaper.. it is waiting that has us in the mess we are in now.

Kirk put up 2.8 fWAR last year with negative offensive value. He put up a 113 wRC+ with a different approach (back to the 2022 approach). With his improved defense, he could put up a 4-5 win season this year and the price tag next offseason would start to get ugly if he wasn't signed.

 

[canucksfan]

Kirk put up 2.8 fWAR last year with negative offensive value. He put up a 113 wRC+ with a different approach (back to the 2022 approach). With his improved defense, he could put up a 4-5 win season this year and the price tag next offseason would start to get ugly if he wasn't signed.

And the same people bitching about the contract now would be the ones bitching about the extension next offseason or the lack of an extension.

 

[Discoverer]

Yeah, if Kirk just is who he has been the last two years, it's a really solid deal. If he finds a bit more offense, it's an absolute bargain.

Not that there's zero downside or anything - there always is with a contract like this - but you have to try really hard to find something to dislike about this deal.

 

[GoonieFace]

The argument is committing to an obese catcher who is at risk of being injured and or performing horribly.

I wouldn’t say Kirk is obese. He’s just a solid dude, like a bowling ball. He’s not sloppy fat.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Based on what? It's certainly possible, but what have you actually seen from Roden that suggests he's better defensively?

Springer remains a roughly average defensive RF. Santander was always a disaster when they put him in LF and surprisingly adequate when he was in RF. If you're going to hide him somewhere, why would you hide him where he's a worse defender?

I would like to see both Springer and Santander get plenty of time at DH, but having both of them in the OF means Wagner's bat is in the lineup more often. Right now, the optimized lineup is probably Springer in CF with Santander and Roden in the corners and Wagner at DH.

I have no interest i seeing Springer get any DH time anymore. Maybe that's partly skewed by his awful spring but I thought his DH days should be behind him before the spring too. He's still quite a good defensive corner outfielder and still competent in center. Until Varsho comes back I think Springer in center with Santander/Roden in the corners is ideal like you said. I suspect it'll be Straw in center with Springer and 1 of Roden/Santander in the corners with either Santander or Wagner DHing depending how much they want to get Clement in there at 3rd base against righties. If they were willing to run Springer in center I suspect Barger would be on the team. He would have an avenue to more ABs versus righties and we'd have no use for Lukes in that case.

If Springer is playing he needs to be in the field. That could cause more Santander DH days then perhaps they promised him when they signed him, or more Roden sitting days that we want but under no circumstance should Springer be DHing while Santander is in the field. You want to give Springer a half day off then give him the full day off, Roden in the field, and Wagner DHing. Springer's bat isn't worth needing to get in there anymore. He'll still be in the lineup 80% of the time or more until he's bad enough that they decide to cut back on his role.

 

[phillipmike]

Schneider had a fantastic spring. He deserves a spot as much as Barger does.

I really wanted to see Yarbrough make the team, especially with the lack of a clearly better LHP option for the pen. But let's not pretend it's some huge loss. He had a very good 31 innings with the Jays. What has he done beyond that? Before the trade, he had a decent ERA and horrible peripherals with the Dodgers. Before that, he had three straight years with an ERA of at least 4.5.

I think people are mostly just overreacting to a couple good months last year.

We should make t-shirts.

 

[phillipmike]

Going into 2025, Kirk at $11.6M would be the 6th highest paid catcher.

2025 MLB Salary Rankings

Listing the top salaries, cap hits, cash, earnings, contracts, and bonuses, for all active MLB players.

www.spotrac.com

The guys making less than him have deals coming up and will for sure make more money than him; Adley and Contreras. Adley puts up another 4 WAR season he is getting $12M+ in arb and Contreras has a team option for $12M next year. Either guy signs an extension, it likely is at least $17-18M per. If they go to market it could be $20-25M X 5+ years.

Since he came into the league in 2020, Kirk is 8th in fWAR. Everyone above him is older than him and has the least amount of PAs. Excluding Adley, everyone above him has close to 300 more PAs.

Major League Leaderboards - 2020 to 2025 - Batting | FanGraphs Baseball

www.fangraphs.com

Fangraph has him as the 6th best catcher projected for 2025;
1. Raleigh 5.0 WAR in 493 PAs
2. Bailey: 5.1 WAR in 506 PAs
3. Contreras: 4.3 WAR in 486PAs
4. Rutschman: 4.2 WAR in 467 PAs
5. Moreno: 4.2 WAR in 486 PAs
6. Kirk: 3.9 WAR in 422 PAs

And Kirk is 4th in fielding rating.

Overall, its great value for a catcher's prime for his aged 27-31 years. Also worth noting Jansen was pulled from a game last week with a rib muscle injury. Love the guy but cant stay healthy.

 

[Hellcat]

Kirk is an elite defensive catcher. He has been healthy for the majority of his career. His second half last season was great and spring training was good.

It's a fairly low-risk contract.

That's what they say but, not sure he sets up well behind the plate. Apparently he was one of the best catchers framing pitches a few years ago. Some catchers get the most out of their pitchers, not sure he does that.

 

[canucksfan]

That's what they say but, not sure he sets up well behind the plate. Apparently he was one of the best catchers framing pitches a few years ago. Some catchers get the most out of their pitchers, not sure he does that.

It's not me saying it, it's the advanced stats that show he is an elite defensive catcher. He is one of the best pitch framers and he's much improved throwing runners out.

Not sure what you mean by the last sentence.

I think last year he was ranked third defensively among catchers.

 

[MK78]

His weakness prior to last year was throwing out runners, but he really was great last year. And he was nearly perfect this spring training challenging pitches with the ABS. He has a good eye out there.

I just hope his body can hold up, and that he can hit some homers and doubles.

 

[Blitzkrug]

I wouldn’t say Kirk is obese. He’s just a solid dude, like a bowling ball. He’s not sloppy fat.

I wasn't kidding when i said he's built like a fridge lol.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Hopefully if we're in this thing, Atkins can go out there and get another impact bat close to the trade deadline.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

Would love some Vladdy extension news within the next 48 hours to really ratchet up the excitement of the upcoming season.

 

[Anthrax442]

The argument is committing to an obese catcher who is at risk of being injured and or performing horribly.

We had Molina when he was 35/36. And his knees held up

 

[MS]

Kirk has actually been exceptionally durable for his position and I don't know if there's much of a correlation between durability and body type - see Kessel, Phil.

 

[Anthrax442]

Kirk has actually been exceptionally durable for his position and I don't know if there's much of a correlation between durability and body type - see Kessel, Phil.

Phil wasnt as fat as people made him out to be. I saw him at the Gary Roberts camp while he was with the Pens, he was standing 20 ft in front of me after they did some workouts, he isnt lean or muscular, but wasnt fat at all either.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

Phil wasnt as fat as people made him out to be. I saw him at the Gary Roberts camp while he was with the Pens, he was standing 20 ft in front of me after they did some workouts, he isnt lean or muscular, but wasnt fat at all either.

I think the correct term for that is "pudgy". LOL

 

[aingefan]

I think the correct term for that is "pudgy". LOL

Sometimes a lil Pudge gets you into the HOF.

 

[LeafSteel]

I think the correct term for that is "pudgy". LOL

The medical term is “hotdog muscle”.

Not hating on Phil the Thrill. Enjoyed him in his time with us.

 

[Sheppy]

Feel free to tell me to piss off, but I'm a big Jays fan and wouldn't mind shooting the shit with you guys in here a bit during the season!

(I'm a Bruins fan, so feel free to tell me my team sucks and to hit the road, I won't argue that)

 

[Discoverer]

Feel free to tell me to piss off, but I'm a big Jays fan and wouldn't mind shooting the shit with you guys in here a bit during the season!

(I'm a Bruins fan, so feel free to tell me my team sucks and to hit the road, I won't argue that)

Piss off! Your team sucks, so hit the road!

But seriously, I think we do a pretty good job of leaving the hockey out of our baseball/Jays talk here. Welcome!

 

[trellaine201]

Feel free to tell me to piss off, but I'm a big Jays fan and wouldn't mind shooting the shit with you guys in here a bit during the season!

(I'm a Bruins fan, so feel free to tell me my team sucks and to hit the road, I won't argue that)

I am jealous of Boston sports fans. Why do you have to win at every sport