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Player Discussion Neal Pionk

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DeAngelo is really talented offensively. If you plays your card right and the kid really puts it together he could start to resemble a prime Mike Green (not playing with AO and Backstrom).

Pionk is a coach’s dream. Why are people trashing AV for some small mistake, AV played him a ton last night for a reason. He handles situations really really well. More a Brian Rafalski type in that. Sure I was joking about the Calder thing, but I think Pionk is the type who does better the higher level he plays at in relation to his peers.

Pionk in no way or form “struggled” early in the AHL, he just didn’t put up a ton of points. A reason for that was limited PP time.

Before you know, if you give him a shot to log minutes in the NHL and people would notice it.

TDA is different in that way, no way TDA could handle top pairing minutes tilted towards a defensive role. Pionk did just that last night.

With that said, I see no reason to go back and forth on TDA and Pionk, I like both. They are really good. TDA might peak a little higher offensively and I wouldn’t be surprised if Pionk has a higher low level and can keep it up longer. Love both.

Gilmour is also not bad. The kid not 19 but he is still learning for sure and is still a rookie. Wouldn’t bank on him making it — but he has potential for sure.

And you guys haven’t seen Graves yet, he is ready too. If another LD goes down and Ryan gets a shot — I wouldn’t at all be surprised if everyone went “why haven’t this kid played before”.
 
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Ola said:
DeAngelo is really talented offensively. If you plays your card right and the kid really puts it together he could start to resemble a prime Mike Green (not playing with AO and Backstrom).

Pionk is a coach’s dream. Why are people trashing AV for some small mistake, AV played him a ton last night for a reason. He handles situations really really well. More a Brian Rafalski type in that. Sure I was joking about the Calder thing, but I think Pionk is the type who does better the higher level he plays at in relation to his peers.

Pionk in no way or form “struggled” early in the AHL, he just didn’t put up a ton of points. A reason for that was limited PP time.

Before you know, if you give him a shot to log minutes in the NHL and people would notice it.

TDA is different in that way, no way TDA could handle top pairing minutes tilted towards a defensive role. Pionk did just that last night.

With that said, I see no reason to go back and forth on TDA and Pionk, I like both. They are really good. TDA might peak a little higher offensively and I wouldn’t be surprised if Pionk has a higher low level and can keep it up longer. Love both.

Gilmour is also not bad. The kid not 19 but he is still learning for sure and is still a rookie. Wouldn’t bank on him making it — but he has potential for sure.

And you guys haven’t seen Graves yet, he is ready too. If another LD goes down and Ryan gets a shot — I wouldn’t at all be surprised if everyone went “why haven’t this kid played before”.
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He doesn't shoot the puck nearly as well as Green. That guy had a cannon back in his prime.
 
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Tony DeAngelo was excellent last night--his play since his recall has been gradually getting better. Pionk strikes me as a steadier player in the defensive end. A forecheck can get on him fast but the puck is almost always already gone by the time it actually gets to him and the pass or play on the money. He does little things very well. DeAngelo is a flashier player and he seems to be getting more and more comfortable as his ice time increases. He's a d-man that needs to mix it up a bit with the opposition--the shoving and whacking is a sign that he's in or getting to a good place. I'm not sure it's a good idea to run a unit full of smaller defenseman but watching Pionk, DeAngelo and Gilmour lately has been a lot more fun and a lot more interesting than watching guys like Holden, Smith and Staal do their respective things.
 
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eco's bones said:
I'm not sure it's a good idea to run a unit full of smaller defenseman but watching Pionk, DeAngelo and Gilmour lately has been a lot more fun and a lot more interesting than watching guys like Holden, Smith and Staal do their respective things.
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It's a valid point but in the case of Staal and Holden, they only have heihht on those guys. DeAngelo and Pionk play a nastier game than either. As for Smith, his awful play this season takes away any size and snarl he may have been able to add. I do want Graves to get a shot alone with these shorter D men.
 
E-Train said:
It's a valid point but in the case of Staal and Holden, they only have heihht on those guys. DeAngelo and Pionk play a nastier game than either. As for Smith, his awful play this season takes away any size and snarl he may have been able to add. I do want Graves to get a shot alone with these shorter D men.
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"Nastiness" aside Staal is more physically adept for board battles (I don't want to discussion Holden).
 
E-Train said:
It's a valid point but in the case of Staal and Holden, they only have heihht on those guys. DeAngelo and Pionk play a nastier game than either. As for Smith, his awful play this season takes away any size and snarl he may have been able to add. I do want Graves to get a shot alone with these shorter D men.
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Holden I suspect is going to be gone. He's seeing his replacements right now. Staal and Smith still have contract left and I'm not sure it will happen but I wouldn't be against at least buying one of them out. I liked the Smith of last year. The Rangers could use his snarl but his head has been up his own ass the whole year.
 
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The Fake clapper, pull up almost goal DeAngelo had yesterday was awesome. I'm on team tank and if he had scored there, I wouldn't have even been mad. He proceeded to skate the puck up ice and nearly split the wild D for another chance his very next shift.

Looked a whole lot like a young Dan Boyle last night.
 
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Pionk projects to be a steady-type.

How he adjusts as the competition learns his playbook will be important. But he’s a smart player.

I’d put him in the upper tier of intelligence among our prospects.
 
Ola said:
DeAngelo is really talented offensively. If you plays your card right and the kid really puts it together he could start to resemble a prime Mike Green (not playing with AO and Backstrom).

Pionk is a coach’s dream. Why are people trashing AV for some small mistake, AV played him a ton last night for a reason. He handles situations really really well. More a Brian Rafalski type in that. Sure I was joking about the Calder thing, but I think Pionk is the type who does better the higher level he plays at in relation to his peers.

Pionk in no way or form “struggled” early in the AHL, he just didn’t put up a ton of points. A reason for that was limited PP time.

Before you know, if you give him a shot to log minutes in the NHL and people would notice it.

TDA is different in that way, no way TDA could handle top pairing minutes tilted towards a defensive role. Pionk did just that last night.

With that said, I see no reason to go back and forth on TDA and Pionk, I like both. They are really good. TDA might peak a little higher offensively and I wouldn’t be surprised if Pionk has a higher low level and can keep it up longer. Love both.

Gilmour is also not bad. The kid not 19 but he is still learning for sure and is still a rookie. Wouldn’t bank on him making it — but he has potential for sure.

And you guys haven’t seen Graves yet, he is ready too. If another LD goes down and Ryan gets a shot — I wouldn’t at all be surprised if everyone went “why haven’t this kid played before”.
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Graves has a ways to go IMO.

I’ll agree with something Beacon said - his timing against faster competition just seems to be a split second behind.
 
Edge said:
Graves has a ways to go IMO.

I’ll agree with something Beacon said - his timing against faster competition just seems to be a split second behind.
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Maybe, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he went the same way Sauer did. We all loved Sauer, and loved him, and loved him and then most started to think that he was going to be one of those steady guys in the AHL that never made it, but as soon as he got a real shot there was, more or less, no looking back.

The kid is only 22 y/o and I know that he wants it really really bad. I think that it’s just a process for him. And it sure is a challenge to go through that process, keep believing, keep building confidence and not lose faith, take the chances you get when you get them. You need to be luck and stay healthy. But while I am not saying that Beacon is wrong — I do think Graves have everything it takes to make it. Like obviously he is 6’5 and he won’t move like someone 6’1. But he isn’t slow at all, he moves well for his size. Get a 6th D stay at home job and build on that.

Also when it comes to evaluating our AHL defenders — I think we for a long time have been a little bit guilty of reacting off scoring and kind of missing the big picture. It’s not many months (weeks?) AHL some where claiming that Gilmour don’t belong in the AHL now he is in the NHL. If you watch a goal on reply and check who could have done something about it, usually by being in picture, it’s just not the full picture. It’s a team game. A ton of things going on. It’s a development league. Hartford isn’t particularly good. To put it like this, last season Gilmour was litterary called the worst D in the AHL. HFD was the worst team. Let’s say that Hartford instead had a top roster, was top 3 in the AHL, winning 8 of 10 games. Wouldn’t Gilmour been called the worst D in the AHL? Never. A player is what he is. Gilmour of course had a rough year, but just saying that there is a context and I think we have hanged out our Ds in HFD too much for a while...
 
Trxjw said:
I think people are sleeping on Pionk's offensive ability. Steady and controlled defense is a new tool for him. He was a guy in college who pushed the pace with the puck, was a stellar outlet passer, and loved to get physical.
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He and Gilmour have helped to make the last three games at least interesting to watch. Before they got recalled I was having a hard time watching any of the 10-15 games that preceded that all the way through.
 
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Pionk seems like he can be a Troy Stecher type for us with better defense. His positioning and reads are fantastic, but the only thing that might hurt him is his size. I’m still waiting for him to unleash a bomb from the point. He has a really hard, low slapper
 
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Ola said:
Maybe, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he went the same way Sauer did. We all loved Sauer, and loved him, and loved him and then most started to think that he was going to be one of those steady guys in the AHL that never made it, but as soon as he got a real shot there was, more or less, no looking back.

The kid is only 22 y/o and I know that he wants it really really bad. I think that it’s just a process for him. And it sure is a challenge to go through that process, keep believing, keep building confidence and not lose faith, take the chances you get when you get them. You need to be luck and stay healthy. But while I am not saying that Beacon is wrong — I do think Graves have everything it takes to make it. Like obviously he is 6’5 and he won’t move like someone 6’1. But he isn’t slow at all, he moves well for his size. Get a 6th D stay at home job and build on that.

Also when it comes to evaluating our AHL defenders — I think we for a long time have been a little bit guilty of reacting off scoring and kind of missing the big picture. It’s not many months (weeks?) AHL some where claiming that Gilmour don’t belong in the AHL now he is in the NHL. If you watch a goal on reply and check who could have done something about it, usually by being in picture, it’s just not the full picture. It’s a team game. A ton of things going on. It’s a development league. Hartford isn’t particularly good. To put it like this, last season Gilmour was litterary called the worst D in the AHL. HFD was the worst team. Let’s say that Hartford instead had a top roster, was top 3 in the AHL, winning 8 of 10 games. Wouldn’t Gilmour been called the worst D in the AHL? Never. A player is what he is. Gilmour of course had a rough year, but just saying that there is a context and I think we have hanged out our Ds in HFD too much for a while...
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Certainly possible. By no means would I write Graves off.

I think Sauer was more naturally talented then Graves, it was just getting him to stay healthy. Frankly, that was one of the big reasons he wasn’t a first round pick in 2005 and it’s not terribly surprising he didn’t quite make 100 NHL games before he was permanently knocked out.

For Graves, like ADA, Pionk and others, I’m not concerned about the numbers. I’m looking at positioning and reacting. Thus far, this season, Graves has taken a step back.

It wasn’t that long ago that I watched Skjei and Graves in the AHL together and didn’t think there was that much separating them from a development standpoint. Fast forward a couple of years later and I can’t argue with Graves being the third or even fourth call-up option on defense.

No matter how we slice it, the development has stalled out a bit. Obviously my hope is that he can get back on track, but time and the possibility of more and emerging competition will not do him any favors.
 
Pionk has a better chance at being a top-4 D-man in the league than any of our other prospects (aside from DeAngelo). He took a big risk leaving college after just 2 years, and that was because he was so good. It's not a guarantee for success, but the path he chose usually only applies to players good enough to carve out a good NHL career for themselves.
 
eco's bones said:
He and Gilmour have helped to make the last three games at least interesting to watch. Before they got recalled I was having a hard time watching any of the 10-15 games that preceded that all the way through.
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Yeah watching was almost a chore. All of a sudden I'm looking forward to games again.
 
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Skjei/ADA/Pionk are pretty good building blocks on the back end. No top pairing d-man amongst them but that's fine. All 3 can be top-4 d-men for us for years.
 
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Yes, I agree our D core looks very promising - maybe we miss 1 solid defender in the next draft, but we might need a sniper more based on needs. I`ve a notion that either Chytil or Lias end up as our 1# center in some years, but not next season.
 
Amazing Kreiderman said:
Pionk has a better chance at being a top-4 D-man in the league than any of our other prospects (aside from DeAngelo). He took a big risk leaving college after just 2 years, and that was because he was so good. It's not a guarantee for success, but the path he chose usually only applies to players good enough to carve out a good NHL career for themselves.
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I could very easily see Pionk have the type of career in the new NHL that Girardi had in the previous era. (That's not comparing them as players)

He'll always battle against that pedigree bias, that's a given. But I would say he's one of the top three intelligent skaters we have, and without a doubt the smartest defenseman we have.
 
All of the call ups have proven worthy of playing time, especially vs. the play of Smith, Staal and Kampfer this season. The main thing going forward is to have a coach who will consider it part of his responsibilities to develop young players. For some reason AV was allowed to avoid this and this season has turned into a waste. The Bruins, Flyers, Hurricanes, etc. all developed their young talent, mistakes and all, and improved as the season went on. The Rangers regressed. Of course the injuries were a big part of that but what young players actually were brought in and improved as the season went on? Thankfully Kampfer broke his hand as AV was starting to lean on him too. AV's attraction to older untalented players is insufferable - I think he empathizes with them because he was that type of player. Hopefully next season we will have a top college coach or Keith McCambridge, who will concentrate on player development.
 
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