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Player Discussion Neal Pionk

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haohmaru said:
@ the subject, however:

Pionk really pissed me off last night. As in, pissed that he hasn't been up here all year. Guy was composed and calm with the puck and really impressed me. I hope he can do it over the next number of games consistently.
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Maybe his time spent in Hartford is what enabled him to be so calm and composed last night. If he ends up being a good player for us, I don't care either way.
 
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It's funny we have guys who can barely skate getting 15 minutes a night then this guy comes up shows u can play I wonder what was going through av's mind when he had see these two kids play
 
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haohmaru said:
@ the subject, however:

Pionk really pissed me off last night. As in, pissed that he hasn't been up here all year. Guy was composed and calm with the puck and really impressed me. I hope he can do it over the next number of games consistently.
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Agreed, thought he looked really good last night. Kind of reminds me of Stralman. Not flashy for the most part, but relatively fast, good positionally, makes a nice quick first pass out of the d-zone. Needs to put on some weight, but realistically could be a 4-6 D for us, with outside shot of turning into a #2 like Stralman.

Also, would like the Rangers to give him some PP time considering the season is all about the future at this point. Give him Desharnais' spot and the second unit and swap Miller and Deangelo so each unit has two defenseman:

Zib-Nash-Zucc
Deangelo-Skjei

Letteiri-Hayes-Miller
Pionk-Gilmour
 
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He's looked really good along with Gilmour. You could see in the Jets game how they are both learning what works in the NHL vs the AHL. Made a few ill-advised plays along the boards and stretch passes that were picked off, but that's how you develop your game.
 
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Not super surprised Pionk is playing well given what he showed in preseason, but I'm a little surprised about Gilmour as a few people here were saying he was bad even in Hartford and pretty much had no NHL future.
 
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haohmaru said:
Easiest thing in the world is to criticize a draft retroactively.

Every team in the league has regrets in this department every year.
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The other issue is that people overestimate first rounders, then stunned some failed. I ran the numbers and guys drafted at 21-30 have a 37% chance of playing 200+ games. Let's make it 40% in case a few more (fairly) recent pick make it. That means 60% are outright busts. Most of that 40% who do play 200 games aren't stars, they are average or even below average.

People will get 3 first round picks and declare: "That's it, rebuild is over. We just got 2 top-6 forwards and a top-4 defenseman." Five years later, only 1 of the 3 first rounders made it, and people are stunned how the GM could be this stupid. In fact, he hit about average. Even if the GM gets 2 quality NHLers and 1 is a bust (Kreider, Skjei, Sanguinetti), people can't understand why the GM is such a moron when in reality, he did much better than reasonable expectations.

From 2004 to 2012, we had 10 first round picks. Of them 7 made it (Montoya, Korps, Staal, Del Zotto, Kreider, Miller, Skjei), a pair were busts (Sanguinetti, McIlrath) and one died, but would almost certainly have been at least a low-end NHL, probably much more (Cherry). That's an 80% hit rate. We had two top-10 picks, 6 in the 11-20 range and two more post-20. That is very, very solid.
 
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Tawnos said:
I was pleasantly surprised at the calmness.
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Read my PbPs in the Hartford thread. Every game was the same thing: Pionk makes great little plays that are not highlight reels, but just the right play every time. He even fought a much bigger guy and did a good job of it. He's an NHLer, for sure. Whether now or next fall, it will be a permanent thing.
 
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haveandare said:
Not super surprised Pionk is playing well given what he showed in preseason, but I'm a little surprised about Gilmour as a few people here were saying he was bad even in Hartford and pretty much had no NHL future.
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Gilmour turns over the puck SOOOO much in Hartford. If he keeps it very simple and just uses his speed for a north-south game making simple passes of the puck instead of trying to stickhandle, he could be ok. The problem is that in the AHL, he tries to stickhandle all the time and it leads to bad results 95% of the time. You can't turnover the puck 12 feet away from the net when you're the last person in front of the goalie.
 
Beacon said:
Gilmour turns over the puck SOOOO much in Hartford. If he keeps it very simple and just uses his speed for a north-south game making simple passes of the puck instead of trying to stickhandle, he could be ok. The problem is that in the AHL, he tries to stickhandle all the time and it leads to bad results 95% of the time. You can't turnover the puck 12 feet away from the net when you're the last person in front of the goalie.
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If you could tell that last part to my beer league team...I'd appreciate it..
 
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Beacon said:
From 2004 to 2012, we had 10 first round picks. Of them 7 made it (Montoya, Korps, Staal, Del Zotto, Kreider, Miller, Skjei), a pair were busts (Sanguinetti, McIlrath) and one died, but would almost certainly have been at least a low-end NHL, probably much more (Cherry). That's an 80% hit rate. We had two top-10 picks, 6 in the 11-20 range and two more post-20. That is very, very solid.
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I think the ones that make it but don't live up to expectations probably land in the "bust" category for a lot of people. Montoya, Korpikoski, Del Zotto...but yeah you're right a 1st round pick isn't an automatic good NHL player or even a NHL player period. Sometimes you draft guys who seem like a sure thing and they don't make it. Andersson and Chytil might not make it. We think they're great picks now but 4 years from now? We'll see.

I think Miller, Kreider, and Skjei have all exceeded expectations to some degree though so maybe that balances out a bit.

As for Pionk, it will be pretty interesting to see how things shake out next season especially if McDonagh gets traded. He really has a good chance to be a solid contributor in the NHL next year.
 
A guy like Del Zotto is a lot better than most other #20 draftees. Going back all the way to 1980, only 5 guys drafted at #20 played more NHL games, and he'll probably beat out Marcel Goc a couple of seasons from now. Only 4 scored more points, of whom 3 were forwards. I get that everyone wanted us to repeat the pick of Brent Burns at #20, but that's an exceptionally rare situation in the incredible 2003 draft. Before that, the star was Brodeur, also in a very strong draft and goalies are hard to predict (Trevor Kidd at the time was a much better prospect in 1990). Fact is that you're not getting a star around #20 unless you get very lucky.

Getting a guy like Kreider around there is a major home run. In the last 25 years, Kreider has the most points per game of any #19 draftee except Getzlaf (in the huge 2003 draft). Incidentally, Korps is #3 among 19OA picks in games played, so also not a complete miss.
 
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I don't really like comparing them just to their exact draft spot...feels like I'd rather compare them to a general range.
 
Levitate said:
I don't really like comparing them just to their exact draft spot...feels like I'd rather compare them to a general range.
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All you'd be doing is expanding the same point. So you make it a 5 slot range. What you'd find about Del Zotto is that only 25 guys played more games. But instead of it being top 5 out of 35, it'd be top 25 out of 175 players. What's the difference? (I smoothed out the numbers to illustrate the point, but you get the idea)

The actual numbers are 33rd out of 150 for players drafted 18-22 between 1980 and 2009. I didn't include players he will pass either this season or early next season. I did include players he's likely to pass sometime in the next 3 seasons. You're basically talking about a player in the top 15-20% of draftees in a 5 slot range in a 30 year draft period. If we expanded to 10 slots, you'd find him in the same place.
 
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Pionk is definitely better defensively than ADa, Gilmour, probably already better than Kampfer too. He only lost out to ADA during camp because the had NHL experience and I don't think he's going back down again. You can tell he's a guy who will come in and focus on the D side, make steady and simple plays, then he'll start adding offense once he settles in, just like he did in Hartford. For his size, he uses his body extremely well, pinning much bigger forwards against the boards, kid is physical for his stature and definitely not a one dimensional offensive d. Really impressed me thus far.
 
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For the record, Pionk didn't play the 2 best games of his life and won't be able to hold up this level going forward. This is his level. He did in the NHL what he did in the AHL. He'll sometimes make a rookie mistake, but they are rare and 99% of the time he makes the smart play. As he learns from coaches, Pionk will turn into an extremely steady defenseman. If he works hard not just this season, but in the summer (instead of going Brenden Smith lazy bum on us), he'll be in the NHL next season.

Every time Neal gets lazy, he should ask himself, "Next Christmas, do I want to ride the bus to Syracuse at night for middle class salary or do I want nearly a million a year to fly on a chartered flight to the fanciest arenas in the world." Then decide if he wants to sleep in and then bbq all day on July 4 instead of working out.
 
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Beacon said:
For the record, Pionk didn't play the 2 best games of his life and won't be able to hold up this level going forward. This is his level. He did in the NHL what he did in the AHL. He'll sometimes make a rookie mistake, but they are rare and 99% of the time he makes the smart play. As he learns from coaches, Pionk will turn into an extremely steady defenseman. If he works hard not just this season, but in the summer (instead of going Brenden Smith lazy bum on us), he'll be in the NHL next season.

Every time Neal gets lazy, he should ask himself, "Next Christmas, do I want to ride the bus to Syracuse at night for middle class salary or do I want nearly a million a year to fly on a chartered flight to the fanciest arenas in the world." Then decide if he wants to sleep in and then bbq all day on July 4 instead of working out.
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The kid seems really mature off the ice, he's not going back to Hartford.
 
Matz03 said:
The kid seems really mature off the ice, he's not going back to Hartford.
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I am normally very careful with this stuff because sometimes kids get overwhelmed after a few games, but I certainly would not be surprised if the only time Pionk goes back to Hartford would be to clean out his locker.
 
Beacon said:
I am normally very careful with this stuff because sometimes kids get overwhelmed after a few games, but I certainly would not be surprised if the only time Pionk goes back to Hartford would be to clean out his locker.
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I could see quite the influx of players heading down for their playoff run st the end of the season.
 
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