Player Discussion: Neal Pionk Part 2

[Jet]

It's interesting that the vet making the money (and probably wanting more) might need Samberg to pro him up - shouldn't it be the other way around?

Maybe, but it could also be just finding the right partner that helps minimize his weaknesses and let him do what he does best.

Enstrom did that a lot for Buff (not that Toby was his junior)

 

[WolfHouse]

It appears that advanced stats were right about the samberg-pionk pairing last year...

 

[nobody imp0rtant]

It appears that advanced stats were right about the samberg-pionk pairing last year...

And now, a Counterpoint from @Buffdog...

 

[Buffdog]

And now, a Counterpoint from @Buffdog...

View attachment 932741

Like I've said 1000 times, advanced stats are a useful tool when used correctly

That said, when Pionk fails the eye test, he does so in spectacular fashion (much moreso last season and the season before than this one). He can be playing not too badly and then all of a sudden he has a massive brain fart that always seems to end up in the back of the net

 

[WolfHouse]

And now, a Counterpoint from @Buffdog...

View attachment 932741

Thanks to this... we will destroy Florida. The force is in balance once again.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

It's a fair opinion. I think there are a lot of areas that you can look at the Jets and say they are imperfectly built. Smaller defense, smaller wingers, no true elite centre. Lack of scoring from centres.

A lot of things had to go right to get the start the Jets had.

When you look at the future, I think people are excited about Salomonsson with good reason. But there's as much uncertainty that Salomonsson is going to be ready for 20 minutes a night shutdown defense next season as anything else on this team. Does Pionk's success depend on Dylan Samberg? For sure. Does Samberg need a puck mover to have success, I think that's also likely true? Jet would be a qualified commentator on how much good defense relies on chemistry, knowing how your d-partner likes to plays, and complementing it. Spacing is so important in defense, to be successful. Can't be separated from good forward work either, centers who play in the right areas of the ice, forward who backcheck to negate speed and odd man rushes. Can anyone say that Samberg and Salomonsson would be good in their spacing, as two players who don't really know each other's game? They had one preseason game, and it could have been rust but I did notice that they had trouble with clean breakouts.

I will watch how it plays out. There's so many potential changes looming on this team, my inclination is the Jets would like to have a relatively consistent top 4 to go into next season.
And Pionk has been more consistent as the article and our coach suggest.

I thought the article was good because it talks about how many d-men from the draft class he was passed over have played as many NHL games as him. Mental strength being mentioned by former coaches as one of Pionk's strengths is maybe an insight into the player, more than the analytics of playing a lot of d-zone starts.

Over his time in Wpg Pionk has been anything but consistent. Does being consistent through 19 games erase all of the previous inconsistency?

What article are you referring to?

I really hope Pionk's success depends on Dylan Samberg because that can be arranged. The alternative is that it depends on a contract year because last contract year was the last time he was consistently good. Even better would be that he just didn't work well with Dillon because avoiding that can also be arranged.

If he keeps up his play from the first 19 games for another 19, I expect Chevy to extend him by the midway point in the season. And he will get paid.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

The point is why can't we just celebrate a really strong start for one of our players without someone coming in to shit on it?

I happen to like Pionk and I would hope being on a Jets forum would be a place where I can enjoy that.

I'm really enjoying Pionk's play so far this season. I am concerned about his next contract though.

If he was playing like the last couple of years we wouldn't be 16-3 and I'd be talking about trading Pionk.

Him keeping up this level of play could be vital to Jets having a great season.

 

[voyageur]

Over his time in Wpg Pionk has been anything but consistent. Does being consistent through 19 games erase all of the previous inconsistency?

What article are you referring to?

I really hope Pionk's success depends on Dylan Samberg because that can be arranged. The alternative is that it depends on a contract year because last contract year was the last time he was consistently good. Even better would be that he just didn't work well with Dillon because avoiding that can also be arranged.

If he keeps up his play from the first 19 games for another 19, I expect Chevy to extend him by the midway point in the season. And he will get paid.

The article I posted from NHL.com. So much hate on this guy, he was still positive goal differential last year, including with Dillon. One of those guys who was a victim of the xGoals crusade. He's played top 6 matchups every year he has been here, and everyone of them but 1 has produced a playoff appearance, his worst year as Jet. Twice led the defense in scoring. In 5 years. Season 6, maybe it's Samberg, maybe it's the contract. Maybe it's the coaching? Still lots of season to go. So don't get too high, don't get too low.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

The point is why can't we just celebrate a really strong start for one of our players without someone coming in to shit on it?

I happen to like Pionk and I would hope being on a Jets forum would be a place where I can enjoy that.

Just for fun - I went back to 2014 draft, Pionk's year. Comparing his gms played, G, A, Pts totals he is a pretty good compare with Brandon Montour. Not exact match of course. Montour has a few more games and more goals, but overall pretty close. That is just offense, no consideration of D play.

Montour was drafted 55th. He is 16th in pts among that draft class.

Interesting perspective.

 

[Buffdog]

Over his time in Wpg Pionk has been anything but consistent. Does being consistent through 19 games erase all of the previous inconsistency?

What article are you referring to?

I really hope Pionk's success depends on Dylan Samberg because that can be arranged. The alternative is that it depends on a contract year because last contract year was the last time he was consistently good. Even better would be that he just didn't work well with Dillon because avoiding that can also be arranged.

If he keeps up his play from the first 19 games for another 19, I expect Chevy to extend him by the midway point in the season. And he will get paid.

Samberg seemed to be able to anchor Schmidt last season and that led to great results in their sheltered roll. As he continuously to develop, it wwouln't surprise me to see him anchor the 2nd pair too

As to who his partner will be long term, I guess we'll see

 

[Flair Hay]

Samberg seemed to be able to anchor Schmidt last season and that led to great results in their sheltered roll. As he continuously to develop, it wwouln't surprise me to see him anchor the 2nd pair too

As to who his partner will be long term, I guess we'll see

Samberg and Pionk together in the top 4 and Samberg and Schmidt in the 3rd pair both performed well last year. And now this year Samberg and Pionk is doing well in full time 2nd pair duty.

Pionk is doing great on 2nd PP and doing well on the PK. Not much more we can ask from him at this point.

 

[Flair Hay]

Just for fun - I went back to 2014 draft, Pionk's year. Comparing his gms played, G, A, Pts totals he is a pretty good compare with Brandon Montour. Not exact match of course. Montour has a few more games and more goals, but overall pretty close. That is just offense, no consideration of D play.

Montour was drafted 55th. He is 16th in pts among that draft class.

Interesting perspective.

That is interesting. Montour has had a solid NHL career. Obviously the one spectacular season as the PP1 QB in Florida.

30 point dman in Anaheim and Buffalo. Started to score half point a game in Florida. Then explodes for 70 points one year. Back to half point a game last year and last two playoff years, and a bit above that now in Seattle.

Seems like a carbon copy of Pionk, maybe a bit more flash and mobility.

Same supposed weaknesses of subpar defensive play. Found the right team where his weaknesses were covered with strong defensive partners and forwards. And his skill set was both needed on the team and surrounded by great PP talent.

Nice to see a guy so similar to Neal can be a part of a team that made it to back to back finals.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

That is interesting. Montour has had a solid NHL career. Obviously the one spectacular season as the PP1 QB in Florida.

30 point dman in Anaheim and Buffalo. Started to score half point a game in Florida. Then explodes for 70 points one year. Back to half point a game last year and last two playoff years, and a bit above that now in Seattle.

Seems like a carbon copy of Pionk, maybe a bit more flash and mobility.

Same supposed weaknesses of subpar defensive play. Found the right team where his weaknesses were covered with strong defensive partners and forwards. And his skill set was both needed on the team and surrounded by great PP talent.

Nice to see a guy so similar to Neal can be a part of a team that made it to back to back finals.

And might put at least a slightly different spin on Pionk's shortcomings. Are they as bad as Montour's? Worse? My guess is maybe a little worse but not as bad as I have been thinking. And he has been better this year. Maybe his D is acceptable when paired with a partner as good, and mobile, as Snerg. At least as long as he can maintain his O.

 

[ps241]

Maybe, but it could also be just finding the right partner that helps minimize his weaknesses and let him do what he does best.

Enstrom did that a lot for Buff (not that Toby was his junior)

I do think with D pairs that getting the match right is critical. Samberg looks like a great fit for him, like he was for Schmidt too. For a 6’4” 220 pound player Samberg is really mobile, defends aggressively, can win the puck battles, has the speed and skill to break the forecheck with both puck movement and skating.

I think it give Neil room to be Neil but he has a really good partner covers off his needs.

 

[Adam da bomb]

I do think with D pairs that getting the match right is critical. Samberg looks like a great fit for him, like he was for Schmidt too. For a 6’4” 220 pound player Samberg is really mobile, defends aggressively, can win the puck battles, has the speed and skill to break the forecheck with both puck movement and skating.

I think it give Neil room to be Neil but he has a really good partner covers off his needs.

Looks like Samberg is the one they need to worry about paying first as he makes all his partners great and covers for their weaknesses better than Pionk covers for his partners weaknesses.

 

[KingBogo]

Looks like Samberg is the one they need to worry about paying first as he makes all his partners great and covers for their weaknesses better than Pionk covers for his partners weaknesses.

I think you worry about paying both if you want to stay competitive. They are our 2nd pairing, maybe one day Salo moves up there but other than that we really don't have any other D pushing down the door.

 

[surixon]

I think you worry about paying both if you want to stay competitive. They are our 2nd pairing, maybe one day Salo moves up there but other than that we really don't have any other D pushing down the door.

We can afford to lose some of our expensive depth forwards like Iafallo to keep both.

 

[KingBogo]

We can afford to lose some of our expensive depth forwards like Iafallo to keep both.

Though after this season I think Iafallo gets much cheaper, and if he likes where he is he probably gets $2 M max on his next contract.

 

[surixon]

Though after this season I think Iafallo gets much cheaper, and if he likes where he is he probably gets $2 M max on his next contract.

Very possible, but they may also have to pay Name and Apples a decent amount more.

 

[JetsFan815]

Though after this season I think Iafallo gets much cheaper, and if he likes where he is he probably gets $2 M max on his next contract.

Maybe but I bet he will want to play in atleast in a 3rd line type of role instead of the 4th line that he has with the Jets. So if he is cheaper, it likely won't be with the Jets and will be with another team where he feels he slots into the top-9 and there will be many such teams vying for his services.

So unless the Jets don't re-sign Appleton and promise him that role, I don't see him with Jets next season regardless of his pricetag,

 

[Flair Hay]

And might put at least a slightly different spin on Pionk's shortcomings. Are they as bad as Montour's? Worse? My guess is maybe a little worse but not as bad as I have been thinking. And he has been better this year. Maybe his D is acceptable when paired with a partner as good, and mobile, as Snerg. At least as long as he can maintain his O.

I think acceptable is a good way to put it. In the context of being a cup contending team. Not terrible, not a big driver of team success, but a guy who can fill a role in the top four.

I'm not sure I'd have felt that way going into this year which is great.

I do think with D pairs that getting the match right is critical. Samberg looks like a great fit for him, like he was for Schmidt too. For a 6’4” 220 pound player Samberg is really mobile, defends aggressively, can win the puck battles, has the speed and skill to break the forecheck with both puck movement and skating.

I think it give Neil room to be Neil but he has a really good partner covers off his needs.

Samberg seems to be a better fit for Pionk than Dillon. Which is great because those two will be stapled together.

Looks like Samberg is the one they need to worry about paying first as he makes all his partners great and covers for their weaknesses better than Pionk covers for his partners weaknesses.

Ding ding ding

 

[ps241]

I think acceptable is a good way to put it. In the context of being a cup contending team. Not terrible, not a big driver of team success, but a guy who can fill a role in the top four.

I'm not sure I'd have felt that way going into this year which is great.


Samberg seems to be a better fit for Pionk than Dillon. Which is great because those two will be stapled together.


Ding ding ding

I have allot of respect for Brendan Dillion. He is one of the good guys, he took a longer road to the NHL (wasn’t drafted), plays a rugged game which I like, and he managed to grind his way up to being an acceptable #4 D man. I liked what he brought to our team. That being said Samberg is a material upgrade from a skill perspective while being a big body that can function in a physical environment. Dylan doesn’t have the mean streak but he is tougher to play against when you factor how he takes away time and space from attackers.

I don’t know how much of Neil’s current improvement is because he is not working through a broken foot this season and how much is because of his new partner but for now I’ll take it because our 2nd pairing has been pretty good so far.

 

[Jet]

Very possible, but they may also have to pay Name and Apples a decent amount more.

Appleton is totally expendable. He's done some great work and I'm not unhappy with him but I'd bet Kupari could slide right in on that line if we wanted to get Gus back on the 4th.

 

[Flair Hay]

Appleton is totally expendable. He's done some great work and I'm not unhappy with him but I'd bet Kupari could slide right in on that line if we wanted to get Gus back on the 4th.

Yeah agreed. Appleton has been great in his role. But it's always wise to excercise caution evaluating the 3rd best guy on a line.