News Article: NCC putting in a lot of conditions for the downtown site

[Big Muddy]

oops.

 

[Micklebot]

How is that possible when Tunney's to Blair takes around 30 mins?

Good question, looks like I got duped by a Google AI summary, it's likely closer to 40-45 mins, the overall point remains, you'll be taking half the full length at most, so maybe 25 mins of transit, not 1h and a half.

 

[Masked]

I took a vacation to Japan last fall and the difference in public transit over there compared to Ottawa was night and day.

Or in hockey terms, their public transit was Sanderson and ours is Hamonic.

It's more like comparing Gretzky to Halliday. One is the greatest and the other might be something useful some day.

 

[Masked]

Good question, looks like I got duped by a Google AI summary, it's likely closer to 40-45 mins, the overall point remains, you'll be taking half the full length at most, so maybe 25 mins of transit, not 1h and a half.

You're forgetting the bus ride from the park and ride to Moodie. Not sure if Trim has one.

 

[Stylizer1]

Oh, so you're making up random worst case scenarios not based on reality, gotcha.

No, it was an exaggeration because of how unreliable it has been thus far. I can't imagine what it's going to be like when people especially those who live out of town get the big surprise that the train is down at 9:30pm and have to rely on a bus to get them to their park and ride at -10 with a wind chill making it feel like -21.

 

[GCK]

They have this down to a science in parts of Europe (with soccer stadiums - many more people than a hockey stadium), hopefully Ottawa gets it figured out. With enough trains and impeccable planning, you can move a lot of people quickly.

Wembly is a shitshow for 2 hours after a match.

 

[Stylizer1]

Good question, looks like I got duped by a Google AI summary, it's likely closer to 40-45 mins, the overall point remains, you'll be taking half the full length at most, so maybe 25 mins of transit, not 1h and a half.

That's only if you make perfect connections. Just think if you have to transfer to a bus too. Good Luck.

 

[Stylizer1]

Wembly is a shitshow for 2 hours after a match.

Seriously. European stadiums are usually place on a few different lines of buses, metro's and trams and are pretty close to highways in general. Taxi's are a big part of commuting there too.

 

[GCK]

Seriously. European stadiums are usually place on a few different lines of buses, metro's and trams and are pretty close to highways in general. Taxi's are a big part of commuting there too.

I’m just letting you know, get a couple pints and wait out the worst of it if you go to Wembly.

 

[Big Muddy]

I think that will be the problem. I am not sure they have enough trains.

EDIT -- that's not really my main concern. More I think the entire thing is just not design to move lots of people fast... trains aren't big enough, platforms aren't big enough, people getting on and off trains will be really slow, etc

How many cars in a consist (train) - six?

How many cars in a consist were the platforms designed for? Six?

Six is a guess, but IF it was six, and there were 40 people per vehicle (aka car), then a train would carry 240 passengers. This is just a hypothetical example & not a definitive statement about the Ottawa system.

How many double track sections are there? Double track sections allow trains moving in opposite directions to pass each other without blocking each other.

The headway would also have something to do with capacity to move people. Headway is the interval between trains traveling in the same direction. They may have a way of sending a bunch of trains in same direction to handle peaks/crunch loads.

Signaling system would be another variable. There are various types, so the type of signal system could impose constraints (depends on the type of signal system).

There is simulation software that can take all these variables into account e.g. RailSim, Taros. I would hope/think they used the simulation software, but you’d also have to know the design criteria (what goals the rail system was designed to meet). I have no idea what they did in Ottawa.

Also, there are many kinds of different rail systems. Light rail is a different animal than heavy rail based systems (commuter rail, subways, intercity). Mass transit heavy rail (and/or subway) systems are the high volume people movers versus light rail. You can’t really lump them together and then compare them. A lot of it boils down to population density.

 

[Masked]

There is simulation software that can take all these variables into account e.g. RailSim, Taros. I would hope/think they used the simulation software, but you’d also have to know the design criteria (what goals the rail system was designed to meet). I have no idea what they did in Ottawa.

Neither did the people managing Ottawa's LRT project.

 

[Relapsing]

What have you got against suburbanites?

Having some parking in the Flats makes sense. That applies to summer time usage as well as people attending hockey games and whatever else gets built in the area.

What do suburbanites have against using transit?

That aside, it's funny to see anyone in here complaining about pathing and accessibility... Like this isn't a year round events venue that has to cater to the entire city and the various ways people will want to access it.

LEED is the shit. There are other buildings in the City (notably Bayview yards) that are held to that standard and it's better for it.

Like it or not, creating massive parking lots and structures is not, should not, and cannot be a core ask for this rink.

From someone who lives a stones throw from the new location, I'll be laughing while you're stuck in traffic as I stumble home drunk.

 

[Masked]

From someone who lives a stones throw from the new location, I'll be laughing while you're stuck in traffic as I stumble home drunk.

That's okay. All of us non-urban dwellers will be using your yard as a toilet while we stumble back to where the car was parked.

 

[Relapsing]

That's okay. All of us non-urban dwellers will be using your yard as a toilet while we stumble back to where the car was parked.

Man, who knew suburbanites were disgusting slobs that talk about driving drunk on a public forum?

 

[Stylizer1]

What do suburbanites have against using transit?

That aside, it's funny to see anyone in here complaining about pathing and accessibility... Like this isn't a year round events venue that has to cater to the entire city and the various ways people will want to access it.

LEED is the shit. There are other buildings in the City (notably Bayview yards) that are held to that standard and it's better for it.

Like it or not, creating massive parking lots and structures is not, should not, and cannot be a core ask for this rink.

From someone who lives a stones throw from the new location, I'll be laughing while you're stuck in traffic as I stumble home drunk.

Jokes on you. They will probably remove your encampment under the bridge. lol

 

[Relapsing]

Jokes on you. They will probably remove your encampment under the bridge. lol

Look, I make a lot of money managing that encampment.

 

[Cosmix]

Exactly. The NCC holds too much power and has to get out of the way. We need to get rid of them.

No, we need to exert pressure on the governing party to make the FCC make decisions that serve the interests of the community including the NHL hockey team.

 

[Cosmix]

Look, I make a lot of money managing that encampment.

3 figures?

 

[Cosmix]

Some parking, yes. But trying to make the case that an arena built downtown -- an arena being built *expressly* for the purpose of drawing in a greater audience located downtown -- shouldn't be built to cater to a downtown audience by emphasizing walk-ability, cycling, and transit options is pig-headed, at best. If we want the barn to be consistently full, we're gonna need to pull in a nightly walk/train/bus/cycle-up audience.

And I *am* a suburbanite. I live in the ass-end of Barrhaven. This new downtown arena should absolutely *not* be catering to me and my preferred modes of transport. I'll be more than happy to drive to my local park-and-ride and transit down once it's built.

I have no objections to providing access to the Lebereton area (including the new arena) via mass transit, walking paths and bicycle paths. I don't want walkers having to dodge bicyclists who don't follow the appropriate bicycle paths. I also don't want bicycle paths beside the walking areas. That dumb shit has to stop.

I live in Blackburn Hamlet and most likely will take the bus and mass transit to the games to avoid the vehicle traffic jams and high cost for parking. I recognize that some people will want to drive to the hockey games, so parking must be provided, which means improved vehicle access will be required to the Lebreton area. Those parking spaces will also serve people who want to attend other venues and events in Lebreton Flats. I hope the powers that be don't f*** it up.

 

[Relapsing]

I have no objections to providing access to the Lebereton area (including the new arena) via mass transit, walking paths and bicycle paths. I don't want walkers having to dodge bicyclists who don't follow the appropriate bicycle paths. I also don't want bicycle paths beside the walking areas. That dumb shit has to stop.

I live in Blackburn Hamlet and most likely will take the bus and mass transit to the games to avoid the vehicle traffic jams and high cost for parking. I recognize that some people will want to drive to the hockey games, so parking must be provided, which means improved vehicle access will be required to the Lebreton area. Those parking spaces will also serve people who want to attend other venues and events in Lebreton Flats. I hope the powers that be don't f*** it up.

Walking and cycling paths are already divided at pimisi station. I expect they'll extend that split further as LeBreton develops.

 

[Cosmix]

Walking and cycling paths are already divided at pimisi station. I expect they'll extend that split further as LeBreton develops.

I hope the powers that be enforce the rules!

 

[Relapsing]

I hope the powers that be enforce the rules!

What do you want, bicycle licenses?

How many incidents are there in Ottawa every year between cyclists and pedestrians? How many on an already divided path? Feels like a mole hill, not a mountain to me.

 

[SENATOR]

NCC should have been terminated decades ago. People just collect their paycheques for no reason and pass their cushy jobs to their kids.

 

[Neil Patrick Harris]

What do suburbanites have against using transit?

That aside, it's funny to see anyone in here complaining about pathing and accessibility... Like this isn't a year round events venue that has to cater to the entire city and the various ways people will want to access it.

LEED is the shit. There are other buildings in the City (notably Bayview yards) that are held to that standard and it's better for it.

Like it or not, creating massive parking lots and structures is not, should not, and cannot be a core ask for this rink.

From someone who lives a stones throw from the new location, I'll be laughing while you're stuck in traffic as I stumble home drunk.

The people aren't wrong though -- dealing with the city of Ottawa would definitely be easier, insomuch that Mayor Mark will be more than happy to throw as many hundreds of millions of tax dollars in the pot as Andlauer asks (see Lansdowne Park), so long as his developer friends can get a nice chunk of the pie when construction starts!

People moan about the NCC dragging their heels because the NCC isn't beholden to however the political winds are blowing every four years. They actually *think* in terms of decades.

Meanwhile, is there a project the city of Ottawa has had its hand in that hasn't come in half-assed a day late and several millions of dollars short?

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Astonishing that the city with a metro population of well over 1 million does not yet have a functioning train system going to and from every direction of the city hitting ever major hub location.

We did in the 1950s. Train station was across from Chateau Laurier and the train went from Renfrew out to Hawkesbury. Ottawa got rid of most of it for buses. Now they're removing busses for LRT.

Makes you wonder what the Ottawa Valley and Prescott-Russell would look like today if they added to trains and trolleys.


My problem is...there have been a ton of studies and designs and talks about the Flats for decades. Why haven't all these things been ironed out years ago? Shouldn't all these goody lists have been well known to the Sens and prospective developers for quite awhile?