News Article: NCC putting in a lot of conditions for the downtown site

[SanderSen]

30 minutes to get into town and then 1.5 hours to take public transit.

Sounds like a plan Renfrew.

The idea is that by the time they build the arena the train both east and west will be in place to provide a good people mover. No uncommon for inner city arenas. .. now can they commit to do it right.

Could comment that there is a ton of parking for daytime workers in downtown Ottawa that will be 1 or 2 stops to the rink. If you want to drive downtown.

 

[Stylizer1]

We did in the 1950s. Train station was across from Chateau Laurier and the train went from Renfrew out to Hawkesbury. Ottawa got rid of most of it for buses. Now they're removing busses for LRT.

Makes you wonder what the Ottawa Valley and Prescott-Russell would look like today if they added to trains and trolleys.


My problem is...there have been a ton of studies and designs and talks about the Flats for decades. Why haven't all these things been ironed out years ago? Shouldn't all these goody lists have been well known to the Sens and prospective developers for quite awhile?

In 1952 Ottawa had a series of train tracks running all over the place. It wasn't long ago that they tore up the remaining ones to install paths instead of using them actual rail lines

Map of Ottawa's Railways Through the Years

An Openlayers map showing Ottawa's railways throught the years.

www.kballantyne.ca

 

[mysens]

Whispers in the background have the soil remediation estimated to the tune of over 10 million. The NCC should be cleaning this as it is their land. They have had this land for longer than half a century and know of its contamination. Any vendor holding on to compromised land should clean it or take the haircut. In my experience, when purchasing a site with contamination, it is the vendor who has to deal with it, whether it's the cleanup itself or taking a major hit on the sale price. The Sens owners, who have a few reputable developers and real estate magnates, will not budge on the NCC demand that they should deal with the contamination,. What a joke. The NCC is going to get stuck keeping this land again.

 

[Samboni]

I’m surprised the NCC hasn’t stipulated natural ice only.

 

[jbeck5]

There is so much legislation on the books right now for eco this and climate change that moving forward there is nothing any government can do. Our system is only set up for 1 eventuality and that is way less cars and a lot of red tape preventing innovation unless it meets a very strict definition of what is acceptable.

If this legislation for everything to be electric stays, and electric car prices don't come down...

Rather than have way less cars on the road, I see a huge business empire opportunity for a company to take all these gas cars, refurbish them basically as new, but sell them as used so they don't fall under that electric umbrella...

Then gas stations will stay around if there's demand.

People love their cars...I honestly don't see a world where people give up their cars. They will fight it. They will burn down buildings if they have to. It's not gonna happen..personal vehicles are here to stay, and are a thing of the future. It's just a matter of what that technology will look like.

 

[jbeck5]

Some parking, yes. But trying to make the case that an arena built downtown -- an arena being built *expressly* for the purpose of drawing in a greater audience located downtown -- shouldn't be built to cater to a downtown audience by emphasizing walk-ability, cycling, and transit options is pig-headed, at best. If we want the barn to be consistently full, we're gonna need to pull in a nightly walk/train/bus/cycle-up audience.

And I *am* a suburbanite. I live in the ass-end of Barrhaven. This new downtown arena should absolutely *not* be catering to me and my preferred modes of transport. I'll be more than happy to drive to my local park-and-ride and transit down once it's built.

They should try to cater to as many people as possible and make it enjoyable to go to the game from all ends of the city and all modes of transportation. To not do that would be shooting yourself in the foot and lower demand of the area if all of a sudden, a big percentage of people from certain areas don't want to go because it isn't enjoyable or feasible.

 

[jbeck5]

That's only if you make perfect connections. Just think if you have to transfer to a bus too. Good Luck.

And also, If you just miss that local bus on the way back? Bam, wait an extra 30 mins at 1030pm to 11:00pm on a Tuesday in January when you have to be up at 6am for work the next day.

That's why having driving infrastructure is important? Traffic means an extra 10-15 mins to get out of the downtown core? Cool. That's not the end of the world. I'm in my comfy car and will be in my garage 10-15 mins later....

Beats adding 30 mins to transit...and than another 30 mins if you miss the local bus.

 

[Big Muddy]

We did in the 1950s. Train station was across from Chateau Laurier and the train went from Renfrew out to Hawkesbury. Ottawa got rid of most of it for buses. Now they're removing busses for LRT.

Makes you wonder what the Ottawa Valley and Prescott-Russell would look like today if they added to trains and trolleys.


My problem is...there have been a ton of studies and designs and talks about the Flats for decades. Why haven't all these things been ironed out years ago? Shouldn't all these goody lists have been well known to the Sens and prospective developers for quite awhile?

Street cars used to run East-West along Byron in the west end of Ottawa. Its a narrow strip of grass or park now. Buses replaced the street cars. Now a lot of cities are re-implementing street car systems across North America. Kind of interesting & odd how things change over time.

 

[jbeck5]

What do suburbanites have against using transit?

That aside, it's funny to see anyone in here complaining about pathing and accessibility... Like this isn't a year round events venue that has to cater to the entire city and the various ways people will want to access it.

LEED is the shit. There are other buildings in the City (notably Bayview yards) that are held to that standard and it's better for it.

Like it or not, creating massive parking lots and structures is not, should not, and cannot be a core ask for this rink.

From someone who lives a stones throw from the new location, I'll be laughing while you're stuck in traffic as I stumble home drunk.

It's not just suburbanites...everyone seems to hate using transit.

If I live in the Glebe for example, it's quicker to walk downtown than it is to take the bus up or down bank street. Or at the very least, the same amount of time...so I would rather walk.

And then in the suburbs...it takes me 20-25 mins to drive into work, and 30-35 mins to drive back.

The transit gives me times of anywhere between an hour to an hour and a half commute. That's taking the train to Blair, then local bus from Blair to my neighbourhood, and then a 5-10 min walk to my house.

It's just much easier to drive everywhere quickly with a fun car and music blasting. Nice exhaust sound too. It's no comparison.

 

[jbeck5]

That's okay. All of us non-urban dwellers will be using your yard as a toilet while we stumble back to where the car was parked.

This lol.

 

[jbeck5]

Man, who knew suburbanites were disgusting slobs that talk about driving drunk on a public forum?

Who said driving? You've never heard of a DD? Don't be so hostile lol

 

[Big Muddy]

And also, If you just miss that local bus on the way back? Bam, wait an extra 30 mins at 1030pm to 11:00pm on a Tuesday in January when you have to be up at 6am for work the next day.

That's why having driving infrastructure is important? Traffic means an extra 10-15 mins to get out of the downtown core? Cool. That's not the end of the world. I'm in my comfy car and will be in my garage 10-15 mins later....

Beats adding 30 mins to transit...and than another 30 mins if you miss the local bus.

If Andlauer and the NCC cannot agree on a price for the land, it's all kind of moot anyhow. It looks like there’s a squabble about the costs of soil remediation.

As an aside, I’m not sure one article from this reporter constitutes a description of NCC’s full plan. I’m not sure this one article constitutes the full plan covering parking or anything else.

 

[jbeck5]

If Andlauer and the NCC cannot agree on a price for the land, it's all kind of moot anyhow. It looks like there’s a squabble about the costs of soil remediation.

As an aside, I’m not sure one article from this reporter constitutes a description of NCC’s full plan. I’m not sure this one article constitutes the full plan covering parking or anything else.

I also wonder what the city might do to help the flow of traffic to that area considering it's going to get a lot more traffic.

Like others have said, there's already a lot of parking downtown...perhaps some parking garages open up on the west side of downtown within walking distance of LeBreton.

Obviously downtown already has the infrastructure for 20k people...but does LeBreton?

West of bronson, there isn't really any north/south artery...

Would they adjust Booth to handle more traffic? What about Scott for people coming from the west?

Would they make the Ottawa River Parkway more of a proper highway with no traffic lights and higher speed limit?

 

[Big Muddy]

I also wonder what the city might do to help the flow of traffic to that area considering it's going to get a lot more traffic.

Like others have said, there's already a lot of parking downtown...perhaps some parking garages open up on the west side of downtown within walking distance of LeBreton.

Obviously downtown already has the infrastructure for 20k people...but does LeBreton?

West of bronson, there isn't really any north/south artery...

Would they adjust Booth to handle more traffic? What about Scott for people coming from the west?

Would they make the Ottawa River Parkway more of a proper highway with no traffic lights and higher speed limit?

Your questions make a good case for keeping the current location.