GDT: NCAA Hoops thread
- Thread starter HisIceness
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hblueridgegal
We'll bounce back
Nikishin Go Boom
Russian Bulldozer Consultent
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This is why Gonzaga doesn’t get respect. Playing 25 cupcakes only makes your W-L record look better
- Dec 6, 2011
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They've still made a couple of championship games in like the last five years. I'd say they still have more respect than most programs.
DaveG
Noted Jerk
Hard to build a tough schedule when all but a handful of P5 + Big East schools refuse to schedule you. What they really need is for either the good western mid major schools to break off and form their own version of the Big East, or the Big 12 actually decides to do math on their number of teams and add Cincy, with BYU as football only and the Zags for all other sports. That's literally their only chance at playing a tough schedule year in year out without teams ducking them
Just like the Best of the non P5 in football. Not many teams in the P5 will schedule them so they can't get the good wins
Hell I remember a few years ago before FSU imploded when Alabama had them on the schedule on a neutral site. Alabama tore them up and so began the implosion. But that was the first time I recalled Alabama not playing 4 cupcakes and the SEC West..
Nikishin Go Boom
Russian Bulldozer Consultent
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Im not sure this is entirely true. They had a few scheduled this season: WV, Baylor, Kansas, Auburn, etc. its their conference that is a cupcake.
they are the boise st of basketball
LakeLivin
Armchair Quarterback
Granted, Gonzagas conference schedule was relatively weak other than 2 games against top 25 BYU. But at the time the Zags played them, Iowa was ranked 3rd, Kansas 6th, W. Va 11th, UVa 16th. They beat Auburn, and Baylor was scheduled but got covid' out. According to Sports Illustrated, Gonzaga became the first team in the history of college basketball to knock off 4 then ranked top-20 opponents in their first 7 games.
I think the talk of a weak schedule may be a bit overdone and a good example of a strong existing narrative getting in the way of objective evaluation.
I think the talk of a weak schedule may be a bit overdone and a good example of a strong existing narrative getting in the way of objective evaluation.
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Nikishin Go Boom
Russian Bulldozer Consultent
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I like how you wiped away 10 straight weeks of terrible teams to make your case that their schedule isn’t weak and prevents proper evaluation. They can play well in early games but the team’s ability to play in closely competitive games with athletic teams is wiped away after 10 weeks of 20+ point wins.
DaveG
Noted Jerk
That's what I'm getting at though, their options are play 8-9 top 20 teams throughout the season out of conference or try to form the West Coast version of the Big East. And while it's easier now for them to find games against legit teams than it was a decade ago, they still can only manage 4-5 per season, and most of that is in early season tournaments that are built to get ratings and build hype for the season. Nothing wrong with that, and there's a few top 10-15 programs that don't give a shit who it is they'll play you if they think it can help get them ready for the tourney as well like WVU and under Roy UNC. But there's only so many of those to go around each year. And a lot of those teams in the P5 that aren't quite consistent top 15 teams would rather have a game against the SCLSU Muddogs for an easy win to pad their record than take the L against the Zags even though it wouldn't be held against them by the committee, because they see their conference slate as difficult enough already. So Gonzaga gets 3-4 good made for TV matchups a season, and then 1 or if they're really lucky 2 games against a WVU, UNC, or Kentucky that wants to see just how good the team is that year.
Fwiw I'm not disagreeing with you about their conference at all, the problem is there seems to be no real push for say Utah State, BYU, Gonzaga, Colorado State, St Mary's, and San Diego State to say they're either getting f***ed over by the selection committee due to their conference or they're not getting sufficiently tested in conference play to break away and form a new Big East type conference.
Anton Dubinchuk
aho
Damn, Coach Davis has me ready to run through a wall. What a presser. No question that's the right hire for the Heels!
Nikishin Go Boom
Russian Bulldozer Consultent
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Dougherty’s presser was pretty good from what I am told.
Carolina isn’t the first place one should get HC experience
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Apples and oranges. Matt didn't sit on the bench next to a hall of fame coach for 9 years. Hubert will be very good at this.
Nikishin Go Boom
Russian Bulldozer Consultent
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Wasn’t this the same argument for Gutheridge or are we still different fruit?
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Two final fours and national coach of the year in three years as a head coach. So yes better fruit.
Bill Guthridge - Wikipedia
Nikishin Go Boom
Russian Bulldozer Consultent
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That first year didn’t require a coach to win anything. But at least he won an award for not making his team worse.
Run out of town after poor performances after Dean’s recruits all left.
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Nikishin Go Boom
Russian Bulldozer Consultent
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Jameison, Cota, and Vince flipping Carter. That three were the experienced version of Duke’s big 3 from 3 years ago. Didn’t take much to get that team to the final four. Plus 3 other good roster players. The recruiting and performance tanked after that.
Davis will have to earn his stripes, unlike Gutheridge.
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Hot Take!
Gut earned his stripes sitting next to one of the greatest BB coaches of all time for 30 years and retired after 43 years of basketball.
hblueridgegal
We'll bounce back
He has infectious enthusiasm for sure. Looking forward to seeing his approach to things. The players seem happy.
- Jan 15, 2021
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He has a passion we haven't seen in a while. I am more excited for Tarheel basketball than I have been in a very long time.
Boom Boom Apathy
I am the Professor. Deal with it!
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Coaching probably still is all about recruiting, but now with the transfer portal and other changes likely coming to the NCAA is going to be interesting, and different.
Long ago, it was recruit the best players and groom them to be a solid mix of under and upper class-men.
Then it was recruit the best players, but some of them will be 1 and done so you need a mix of studs and guys who need time to develop, but can be studs as juniors or seniors. You also need to figure out how to pull a team together quickly when the stud freshmen may not be around long.
Now?
Still, if Davis can effectively recruit and/or take advantage of transfers, he'll likely do fine. If not, he'll probably be gone in a few years.
Long ago, it was recruit the best players and groom them to be a solid mix of under and upper class-men.
Then it was recruit the best players, but some of them will be 1 and done so you need a mix of studs and guys who need time to develop, but can be studs as juniors or seniors. You also need to figure out how to pull a team together quickly when the stud freshmen may not be around long.
Now?
Still, if Davis can effectively recruit and/or take advantage of transfers, he'll likely do fine. If not, he'll probably be gone in a few years.
LakeLivin
Armchair Quarterback
I'm not sure how you interpreted my post, but I noted that Gonzaga's conference schedule was relatively weak. And my exact words were "I think the talk of a weak schedule may be a bit overdone", not something like "I think Gonzaga played a monster schedule", lol. The WCC isn't the Big Ten but it isn't the MEAC or Summit, either. I'm not claiming to be up on WCC teams this year but the conference does have teams that have been reasonably competitive in the past like BYU, St. Mary's, and Loyola Marymount. Below is the final RPI for conferences. Not sure exactly how much stock to put in these, but they are interesting. Of course, the WCCs high rank is heavily influenced by the Zags, but if you took the top team out of every other conference they would take a bit of a hit as well.
All in all, "10 straight weeks of terrible teams" seems a bit harsh. And the Zags schedule didn't seem to hurt them too much against Oklahoma, Creighton, USC, and UCLA on their way to the championship game. Bottom line: I stand by my post.
DaveG
Noted Jerk
Thing is if you take the Zags out of that equation they're down there with the SoCon. BYU wasn't garbage by any means and as you point out they still have Loyola and St Mary's, but they'd be just another good but not great mid-major.
LakeLivin
Armchair Quarterback
Sure, and I alluded to that. My point is that, imo, the combination of their non-conference schedule (very good) and their conference schedule (not completely horrible) was better than just "weak schedule".
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