NCAA Hockey Expansion Thread

[CrazyEddie20]

Lindenwood University to lay off staff and cut positions amid enrollment fears

The university laid off 12 staff and two faculty members this week as part of an effort to cut 10% of the operating budget.

www.stltoday.com

"ST. CHARLES — Lindenwood University laid off 12 staff and two faculty members this week as part of an effort to cut 10% of the operating budget, the latest development in a nationwide enrollment crisis for higher education.

Another 40 to 50 open positions at Lindenwood will not be filled, bringing the campus total to about 620 full-time employees, the university’s president John Porter said in an interview Friday afternoon."


Lindenwood is trying to put a good spin on this, but... "Not good, Bob. Not good!"

 

[JMCx4]

Lindenwood University to lay off staff and cut positions amid enrollment fears

The university laid off 12 staff and two faculty members this week as part of an effort to cut 10% of the operating budget.

www.stltoday.com

"ST. CHARLES — Lindenwood University laid off 12 staff and two faculty members this week as part of an effort to cut 10% of the operating budget, the latest development in a nationwide enrollment crisis for higher education.

Another 40 to 50 open positions at Lindenwood will not be filled, bringing the campus total to about 620 full-time employees, the university’s president John Porter said in an interview Friday afternoon."


Lindenwood is trying to put a good spin on this, but... "Not good, Bob. Not good!"

TikTok University's enrollment has meanwhile skyrocketed. When will they stand up a DI hockey program? They'd no doubt do better with social media strategies than all other schools.

 

[ChuckLefley]

Lindenwood University to lay off staff and cut positions amid enrollment fears

The university laid off 12 staff and two faculty members this week as part of an effort to cut 10% of the operating budget.

www.stltoday.com

"ST. CHARLES — Lindenwood University laid off 12 staff and two faculty members this week as part of an effort to cut 10% of the operating budget, the latest development in a nationwide enrollment crisis for higher education.

Another 40 to 50 open positions at Lindenwood will not be filled, bringing the campus total to about 620 full-time employees, the university’s president John Porter said in an interview Friday afternoon."


Lindenwood is trying to put a good spin on this, but... "Not good, Bob. Not good!"

To be honest, the jump to DI and adding mens hockey as a varsity sport is why this is happening. They are making cuts to be able to stay at DI and keep both hockey programs. Now if we are five years down the road and the men still don’t have a conference it may be time to worry.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

To be honest, the jump to DI and adding mens hockey as a varsity sport is why this is happening. They are making cuts to be able to stay at DI and keep both hockey programs. Now if we are five years down the road and the men still don’t have a conference it may be time to worry.

Yup, pretty much.

The message to Division I jumpers (in every sport), club clowns, and fart-sniffing expansionists is simple: How much of your school's academic mission, local goodwill, and history are you willing to give up for a few almost certainly unsuccessful seasons in the big time, assuming you can't find your own Terry Pegula?

Imagine having what you thought was a stable job at a relatively good university and losing it because Ricky Rubber Stamp thought he and his "13 wins in two seasons" club clowns deserved a shot at the big time?

 

[Takuto Maruki]

Seeing what is being cut from Lindenwood, and knowing that HBCU budgets wax and wane with government support at the best of times, makes me seriously wonder how long Tennessee State's hockey programs last even with direct financial help from the Preds.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

Seeing what is being cut from Lindenwood, and knowing that HBCU budgets wax and wane with government support at the best of times, makes me seriously wonder how long Tennessee State's hockey programs last even with direct financial help from the Preds.

Yup. The Preds aren't always going to be financially successful enough to keep a potential TSU program afloat, nor will the school's athletic department. It's a complete boondoggle, albeit one done with good intentions. I just have a very hard time believing it will last, especially given the general culture surrounding hockey tends toward intolerance.

 

[Takuto Maruki]

It makes me wonder - with the college sports world collectively being consolidated around a Power 2, with only one conference being anywhere near a cold weather climate, and with college hockey being a general loss leader in terms of varsity sports, at what point do universities outside of the B1G's footprint with hockey programs decide to cut bone in order to feed the rapacious appetite of CFB and to a lesser extent CBB?

I dunno, even with the eroding of the CHL as *the* pipeline for hockey players on both sides of the border, it increasingly feels like a feast and famine situation that while potentially being beneficial for D1 hockey at this moment in time, sure as hell isn't going to be that in say, three to five years when having to keep the CFB boat from sinking means unprofitable athletic programs have to be cut, hockey included.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

It makes me wonder - with the college sports world collectively being consolidated around a Power 2, with only one conference being anywhere near a cold weather climate, and with college hockey being a general loss leader in terms of varsity sports, at what point do universities outside of the B1G's footprint with hockey programs decide to cut bone in order to feed the rapacious appetite of CFB and to a lesser extent CBB?

I dunno, even with the eroding of the CHL as *the* pipeline for hockey players on both sides of the border, it increasingly feels like a feast and famine situation that while potentially being beneficial for D1 hockey at this moment in time, sure as hell isn't going to be that in say, three to five years when having to keep the CFB boat from sinking means unprofitable athletic programs have to be cut, hockey included.

Hockey isn't a loss leader so much as it's a minor revenue sport for Big Ten schools or other schools where it's the big draw on campus (BU, UND, etc).

It's harder for the smaller schools to keep up now. I don't know if those programs will disappear, but a drop to a lower level isn't out of the question long-term. I'd say there are five ECAC schools, one school in Hockey East, all the AHA schools save for Army and Air Force, most of the CCHA, one school in the NCHC, and all the independents that ave this as a possibility in their future.

When it's no longer financially feasible to be competitive, boards of trustees will start looking at their options. They've had to do it for other sports. This is nothing new.

 

[Bonk]

Hockey isn't a loss leader so much as it's a minor revenue sport for Big Ten schools or other schools where it's the big draw on campus (BU, UND, etc).

It's harder for the smaller schools to keep up now. I don't know if those programs will disappear, but a drop to a lower level isn't out of the question long-term. I'd say there are five ECAC schools, one school in Hockey East, all the AHA schools save for Army and Air Force, most of the CCHA, one school in the NCHC, and all the independents that ave this as a possibility in their future.

When it's no longer financially feasible to be competitive, boards of trustees will start looking at their options. They've had to do it for other sports. This is nothing new.

Not disagreeing, but are you referring to Miami in the NCHC?

 

[CrazyEddie20]

Not disagreeing, but are you referring to Miami in the NCHC?

No. Colorado College, which is Division III in everything else, and despite having a new rink, they also have exactly one winning season since Obama's first term in office.

 

[S E P H]

No. Colorado College, which is Division III in everything else, and despite having a new rink, they also have exactly one winning season since Obama's first term in office.

That's because you're underemphasizing the importance of coaching here. CC was a beastly team under the reigns of Scott Owens, who resigned and went to the USHL. Just lately they've been able to put a decent team together under Mayotte and get talent back slowly. All these smaller schools can succeed if they hire the right coach who has the ambition, intelligence, and marketing skills to sell their programme to players as Rand Pecknold has done at Quinnipiac or Greg Carvel has done at UMass. Will it be hard? Sure, but it's not impossible. I remember when Miami was a proud organisation and perhaps they gave Blasi too much room but their next head coach Bergeron has been a disaster. Sounds like they will get someone new this upcoming season and hopefully change the programme around.

 

[Bonk]

CC is on solid footing financially, has a beautiful new rink and that one winning season was this last one (21-13-3), so I'd say they're OK. St. Cloud is having major financial issues, and Miami has made major cuts to its program and is a geographic outlier in the conference.

But otherwise your concerns are spot on.

 

[Bonk]

That's because you're underemphasizing the importance of coaching here. CC was a beastly team under the reigns of Scott Owens, who resigned and went to the USHL. Just lately they've been able to put a decent team together under Mayotte and get talent back slowly. All these smaller schools can succeed if they hire the right coach who has the ambition, intelligence, and marketing skills to sell their programme to players as Rand Pecknold has done at Quinnipiac or Greg Carvel has done at UMass. Will it be hard? Sure, but it's not impossible. I remember when Miami was a proud organisation and perhaps they gave Blasi too much room but their next head coach Bergeron has been a disaster. Sounds like they will get someone new this upcoming season and hopefully change the programme around.

We're crossing our fingers. Noreen has said all of the right things so far and has hit the ground running in terms of recruiting, but we'll see the next couple of seasons.

The facilities, town and school are top-notch.

 

[ChuckLefley]

Yup, pretty much.

The message to Division I jumpers (in every sport), club clowns, and fart-sniffing expansionists is simple: How much of your school's academic mission, local goodwill, and history are you willing to give up for a few almost certainly unsuccessful seasons in the big time, assuming you can't find your own Terry Pegula?

Imagine having what you thought was a stable job at a relatively good university and losing it because Ricky Rubber Stamp thought he and his "13 wins in two seasons" club clowns deserved a shot at the big time?

Wow, way to turn my factual post into your very obvious obsessive hatred for Zombo. Did he cut you from the club team or something? Jeeez.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

Wow, way to turn my factual post into your very obvious obsessive hatred for Zombo. Did he cut you from the club team or something? Jeeez.

No, I just think he's a clown. He thought it was going to be so easy! All we need is a rubber stamp! He truly thought he could get the rubber stamp and be competitive in Division I.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

That's because you're underemphasizing the importance of coaching here. CC was a beastly team under the reigns of Scott Owens, who resigned and went to the USHL. Just lately they've been able to put a decent team together under Mayotte and get talent back slowly. All these smaller schools can succeed if they hire the right coach who has the ambition, intelligence, and marketing skills to sell their programme to players as Rand Pecknold has done at Quinnipiac or Greg Carvel has done at UMass. Will it be hard? Sure, but it's not impossible. I remember when Miami was a proud organisation and perhaps they gave Blasi too much room but their next head coach Bergeron has been a disaster. Sounds like they will get someone new this upcoming season and hopefully change the programme around.

Again, you're missing a lot of facts here.

Pecknold's teams are competitive at Quinnipiac because they can get literally any warm body into school. They can recruit from a much larger pool of potential players than any other school in that conference. That's what makes them competitive in the ECAC.

It's not entirely about having a good coach. RPI or Clarkson or Union could hire Don Lucia or Bob Johnson or Bob Motzko or Herb Brooks, but they still have to get kids past the admissions department.

At those three schools, hockey is the ONLY sport that brings in any kind of positive cash flow (if it does at all). It's the same at CC, which is a Division III school with high admissions standards playing in Division I for men's hockey and women's soccer.

Sure, they have a new rink and Mayotte had a winning season, but how long will Mayotte be there? He made approximately $241,000 in 2022 according to information readily available by searching for the school's Form 990. That's at the very low end for a head coach in Division I hockey. If he has some more success, he'll be gone for a bigger salary. Market forces and economics are far stronger than affinity. Why do you think Carvel left St. Lawrence, a school of which he is an alum, in the town where he grew up? Because UMass offered him a PILE of money. He makes more than triple what he was making at SLU at Umass. He makes double what Mayotte is making at CC with far easier travel and recruiting.

A shiny new rink on campus is great for CC, but at some point, if the school's most costly athletics program is too costly to keep in Division I, the AD and Trustees will take a very hard look at it regardless of how good the coach is. And it's the same situation at more than half the schools in Division I right now.

 

[Bonk]

Again, you're missing a lot of facts here.

Pecknold's teams are competitive at Quinnipiac because they can get literally any warm body into school. They can recruit from a much larger pool of potential players than any other school in that conference. That's what makes them competitive in the ECAC.

It's not entirely about having a good coach. RPI or Clarkson or Union could hire Don Lucia or Bob Johnson or Bob Motzko or Herb Brooks, but they still have to get kids past the admissions department.

At those three schools, hockey is the ONLY sport that brings in any kind of positive cash flow (if it does at all). It's the same at CC, which is a Division III school with high admissions standards playing in Division I for men's hockey and women's soccer.

Sure, they have a new rink and Mayotte had a winning season, but how long will Mayotte be there? He made approximately $241,000 in 2022 according to information readily available by searching for the school's Form 990. That's at the very low end for a head coach in Division I hockey. If he has some more success, he'll be gone for a bigger salary. Market forces and economics are far stronger than affinity. Why do you think Carvel left St. Lawrence, a school of which he is an alum, in the town where he grew up? Because UMass offered him a PILE of money. He makes more than triple what he was making at SLU at Umass. He makes double what Mayotte is making at CC with far easier travel and recruiting.

A shiny new rink on campus is great for CC, but at some point, if the school's most costly athletics program is too costly to keep in Division I, the AD and Trustees will take a very hard look at it regardless of how good the coach is. And it's the same situation at more than half the schools in Division I right now.

All valid points, but Mayotte did sign an extension last year that I'm sure provided him a significant raise. If the donor pockets were deep enough to build a new rink, they're not going to abandon it in, say, a decade.

I agree with all of the issues you raise, but I don't think CC is one of the more vulnerable programs in D-1.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

@CrazyEddie20 to respond to your earlier comment: Lindenwood definitely has the financial ability to add NCAA DI hockey through a combination of their endowment and expected donations. They are not a school that spends money on anything without it being accounted for. They wouldn’t be in the conversation unless they were prepared for the increased costs of a DI program. And I’m confident they’ll see a return on their investment, division I hockey would easily be the 2nd most or even most profitable sport in terms of revenue on campus

This one aged well, didn’t it?

 

[ChuckLefley]

No, I just think he's a clown. He thought it was going to be so easy! All we need is a rubber stamp! He truly thought he could get the rubber stamp and be competitive in Division I.

Nah, it’s extremely obvious that you have some sort of personal hatred for Zombo, that is running your every thought.

 

[JMCx4]

Nah, it’s extremely obvious that you have some sort of personal hatred for Zombo, that is running your every thought.

Read a few more of Eddie's posts, and you'll realize his hatred is spread no thicker on Former Coach Z than on dozens of other people & programs & organizations. It ain't personal, it's a lifestyle.

 

[GindyDraws]

Hockey isn't a loss leader so much as it's a minor revenue sport for Big Ten schools or other schools where it's the big draw on campus (BU, UND, etc).

It's harder for the smaller schools to keep up now. I don't know if those programs will disappear, but a drop to a lower level isn't out of the question long-term. I'd say there are five ECAC schools, one school in Hockey East, all the AHA schools save for Army and Air Force, most of the CCHA, one school in the NCHC, and all the independents that ave this as a possibility in their future.

When it's no longer financially feasible to be competitive, boards of trustees will start looking at their options. They've had to do it for other sports. This is nothing new.

I mean, a bunch of teams made a conference specifically to kick out the Alaskan schools and Alabama-Huntsville because they got tired of travelling across the country for what they felt was inferior competition.

The problem with NCAA hockey is that the schools that have programs are purposefully clustered (which is why it's mostly a midwestern and northeastern thing, except for Colorado) and if you're an outlier, it's hard to get in. We know Arizona State exists, but that's due to them *really* being interested in having a hockey program, and most other schools don't have anywhere close the funding Arizona State has.

Lindenwood is technically in the same area as the Big Ten and CCHA, but given their weak standing and unstable funding, most of the other programs aren't interested in propping them up besides being a punching bag. And if they can't get into a regional conference, what chance does anyone else?

 

[S E P H]

I mean, a bunch of teams made a conference specifically to kick out the Alaskan schools and Alabama-Huntsville because they got tired of travelling across the country for what they felt was inferior competition.

The problem with NCAA hockey is that the schools that have programs are purposefully clustered (which is why it's mostly a midwestern and northeastern thing, except for Colorado) and if you're an outlier, it's hard to get in. We know Arizona State exists, but that's due to them *really* being interested in having a hockey program, and most other schools don't have anywhere close the funding Arizona State has.

Lindenwood is technically in the same area as the Big Ten and CCHA, but given their weak standing and unstable funding, most of the other programs aren't interested in propping them up besides being a punching bag. And if they can't get into a regional conference, what chance does anyone else?

Yeah, that's why I can't the SEC ever happening unless 4-6 teams decide to start at the same time. The more likely scenario is seeing a slow growth of teams getting further from the Great Lakes or NE corridor. So, for hockey to eventually get to the West Coast, for example, you probably need the University of Arizona to get a team, then UNLV, then the rumoured school in Utah, and then finally UCLA. Of course, UCLA is wealthy enough to afford one, but I wouldn't want to be stuck on an island like they would be currently. However, before UCLA you would have a comfortable 4 team region with two in Arizona, one in Nevada, and one in Utah.

Any SE expansion probably starts with UNC, gets Huntsville to resurrect their programme, but the gateway state is probably through Florida. I could see four to five schools want DI now, but obviously can't/won't since they don't really want to be the genesis school.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

Nah, it’s extremely obvious that you have some sort of personal hatred for Zombo, that is running your every thought.

Sorry your husband was a losing coach, Mrs. Zombo.

Yeah, that's why I can't the SEC ever happening unless 4-6 teams decide to start at the same time. The more likely scenario is seeing a slow growth of teams getting further from the Great Lakes or NE corridor. So, for hockey to eventually get to the West Coast, for example, you probably need the University of Arizona to get a team, then UNLV, then the rumoured school in Utah, and then finally UCLA. Of course, UCLA is wealthy enough to afford one, but I wouldn't want to be stuck on an island like they would be currently. However, before UCLA you would have a comfortable 4 team region with two in Arizona, one in Nevada, and one in Utah.

Any SE expansion probably starts with UNC, gets Huntsville to resurrect their programme, but the gateway state is probably through Florida. I could see four to five schools want DI now, but obviously can't/won't since they don't really want to be the genesis school.

Look! Pie! Up there in the sky!

All this talk of hypotheticals and what it would take is ridiculous. It's literally wishcasting crossed with fever dreams and masturbation.

Arizona has had access to a rink for decades but never started a real college hockey program. Why?

UNLV has had access to a building with an ice plant for 41 years but never started a real college hockey program. Why?

Southern California literally had a rink that hosted NHL games across the street from the campus from 1959 until 2016 but never started a real college hockey program. Why?

It's a three-fold answer: 1) There's no money because the athletic budget is devoted to football, basketball, and not getting sued under Title IX. 2) There's not significant enough interest among fans, donors, or alumni. 3) Without the draw of the school's traditional opponents, the sport is going to have a lot of trouble drawing fans, and a program that costs $1+ million a year to operate is going to immediately be in the hole if they can't draw fans. A program that's losing six figures a year at a power conference school is a program that is going to be cut.

The only reason ASU has a team is that Don Lewin's kid wanted to play real college hockey, so he wrote an enormous check.

Even if North Carolina's hockey boosters build a rink, I don't see real college hockey happening in Chapel Hill. It's not just the rink that needs funding, it's the operating budget. And UNC won't draw flies unless they're playing ACC or otherwise big name southern opponents.

And no school in Florida has expressed any interest in starting a real college hockey program. The most likely candidate would be FGCU, which could share Hertz Arena with the Everblades, but again: Where's the money going to come from?

No big name school like Florida, Florida State, UCF, or Miami (Fla.) is just going to throw a program together a la Stonehill, Lindenwood, or LIU. Why? It hurts their athletic brand to have a thrown-together program that stumbles for several years out of the gate. Alumni and donors would be PISSED if they gave the school a six- or seven-figure check only for the school to win 13 games (five wins against Stonehill!) in the first two seasons like Lindenwood did.

When your brand has significant value, as any power conference school's athletic teams do, you don't do things by half measures. If it's worth doing, you do it right or you don't do it so you don't alienate alumni and donors. That's just a big a barrier to fanboi expansionist fever dreams as money.

 

[JMCx4]

What's happening in the expansion realm on the other side of the DI slate ...
-----------------------------------------------
From: MLive.com > Wolverines

UM launches feasibility study to explore adding D1 women’s hockey
Published: Jun. 12, 2024, 7:21 p.m.
By: Ryan Zuke

The state of Michigan has not had an NCAA Division I women’s hockey program since 2011, when Wayne State folded its after 12 seasons because of funding issues.

But Denise Ilitch is hoping that changes soon. Ilitch, who serves on the University of Michigan Board of Regents, publicly called for the school to add a varsity women’s hockey program at the March 28 regents meeting.

The athletic department has since taken the first step in potentially implementing a women’s team, launching a feasibility study in late-May to examine the viability of the proposed initiative.

A feasibility study will entail an exploration into Title IX implications and costs associated with fielding a team, such as facilities, scholarships, travel, recruiting, conference affiliations, coaches’ salaries and more. ...

A UM athletics spokesperson confirmed the feasibility study is ongoing but said the university will not comment further until it is completed. Ilitch said she anticipates the study to be done by early-to-mid-fall. The study can then be presented to the regents, and a majority vote is required for approval of a varsity program. ...

Read more at:

UM launches feasibility study to explore adding D1 women’s hockey

The university is exploring the viability of adding women's ice hockey as a varsity sport.

www.mlive.com

 

[CrazyEddie20]

What's happening in the expansion realm on the other side of the DI slate ...
-----------------------------------------------
From: MLive.com > Wolverines

Long overdue.