NCAA Hockey Expansion Thread

[Nodak651]

So your argument is that the athletic department is such a mess that it can't re-establish a football program, and that means it will establish a hockey program?

I don't recall saying that. Please quote the post where I said that they WILL.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

You're projecting.

I am having fun, no idea what you're talking about. @S E P H sadly lacks basic college hockey knowledge (with the last almost 30 pages of this thread being my evidence) and you appear to have at least a small amount more than him, it will make this thread somewhat more interesting.

 

[Nodak651]

Misinterpretation on your part. If they weren't kicked out of the MIAC, they wouldn't have gone NCAA DI. The representation from UST went to that meeting with no clue what was going to happen. When they threatened to fight it immediately afterwards, the rest of the league threatened to leave and form their own league. That was beyond sudden.

I typed out a nice message and before I clicked send you changed your post! Urghhh! Now I have to go help my kids I was ignoring!

 

[MeHateHe]

I don't recall saying that. Please quote the post where I said that they WILL.

Let's all rewind the tape.

You said this.

Biggest thing stopping Simon Fraser is the lack of a conference and the NCAA moratorium on the creation of new single sport conferences, which keeps getting extended. Same problem applies to Utica and Binghampton - although Atlantic hockey is reportedly accepting applications for new membership, currently.

Simon Fraser, IF they went D1, would have no problem getting home games, as CousinEddy claims, because the BCHL is the biggest recruiting hotbed in the country. Simon Fraser was even able to draw North Dakota and Princeton out to BC in 2013, for that reason, as a club program.

My existence in this thread is predicated on the need for someone from BC to regularly throw cold water on the Quixotic wish of the coach of Simon Fraser's BICHL program to join NCAA. It is a grandiose desire, and I use that word with every possible negative connotation. So I replied with five other things that will get in the way of an application to NCAA. Because it's simply not a serious proposal. No athletic director would sign off on it. No university president would sign off on it.

It seems to me, and others I'm sure will agree, that you have reacted badly to folks like me pooh-poohing notions as hole-ridden as SFU's. Sure, sure, you aren't saying the school necessarily WILL join NCAA, but rather that negative Nancys like myself should stop pointing out the likelihood the university would apply and be accepted is slightly less than the likelihood of an elephant climbing a willow tree.

SO following my comment that Simon Fraser's athletic focus has long been on its football program, and that there will be an impetus to restore that program before trying to get a high level hockey team off the ground, you pointed out that their athletic department is a mess (weird, I know, because as I said earlier, they have no AD).

I mean.

Others have said unequivocably that Simon Fraser ain't gonna get into NCAA. I choose not to be so definitive, because stranger things have happened.

However, you're getting bent out of shape because on the one hand you want to talk about this as if it had a toad's chance on a freeway, while at the same time you want to point out that the university's athletic department is a mess. Pick a side!

 

[JMCx4]

... My existence in this thread is predicated on the need for someone from BC to regularly throw cold water on the Quixotic wish of the coach of Simon Fraser's BICHL program to join NCAA. ...

Condolences on your social life.

 

[AintLifeGrand]

who gets the D1 hockey program first: UNC or UGA?

SEC hockey conference would quickly become the top hockey conf in the country-much like how it is with football.

Would probably take over college baseball as the 3rd most popular spot on aggregate conf wise.

 

[JMCx4]

To troll, or not to troll ... how 'bout not?

 

[mk80]

So while everyone has dropped the gloves here in the thread.... we've got some college hockey expansion to announce.

In a corresponding move to balance Title IX numbers with their move to CUSA and FBS Football, here come the Blue Hens into NCAA hockey on the women's side!

 

[S E P H]

To troll, or not to troll ... how 'bout not?

Asking a question is now trolling?

UNC's own ex-coach said they eventually want to go DI and Georgia is building a 5k arena for their club hockey team. I don't think it is more farfetched to say they're closer to DI than say the likes of USC for example.

 

[JMCx4]

Asking a question is now trolling? ...

Stopping at the question was innocent. Continuing with "SEC hockey conference would quickly become the top hockey conf in the country" and beyond was either a troll or a delusion. Neither one should be considered a proud moment in HFB history.

 

[JMCx4]

So while everyone has dropped the gloves here in the thread.... we've got some college hockey expansion to announce.

In a corresponding move to balance Title IX numbers with their move to CUSA and FBS Football, here come the Blue Hens into NCAA hockey on the women's side! ...

I don't envy their fans, sitting on those sleds for 2-1/2+ hours per game ...

 

[JMCx4]

The addition of the Lady Blue Hens to the CHA gives Lindenwood another far flung conference rival, nearly the exhausting bus ride away & back home as Syracuse. Might be time to start the rumor of a DI women's ice hockey Midwest alliance. The Washington University Lady Bears sounds good to me.

 

[Nodak651]

And how many have there been people who have been beyond convinced that a school announcement regarding a new NCAA DI hockey program was around the corner? In no particular order, Illinois, High Point, Rutgers, Iowa, UPenn, Utica, Binghamton (under a year away from their suppposed start date with no news, not the first and won't be the last), URI, Missouri State, UCLA, USC, Alabama, Oakland, Pitt, Oregon, UAH (their supposed return is where?), Tennessee State, Arizona, Navy, Buffalo, UNLV.... how many others?

Atlantic Hockey has bids open right now for new members. Mike McMahon reported on his podcast that Utica has applied again. LIU and Stonehill also applied. No word on Binghamton. He said he knew of 3 applications but didn't know whether or not there were more. Atlantic Hockey's window for accepting applications has now ended, so it will be interesting to see what they decide to do. Guessing they had a team or two in mind when they decided to accept new applications... Stonehill said at one point that they have a big donor who will help finance a new arena if they get accepted into a conference, but they currently have the worst program by far. Atlantic Hockey and the CHA merged operations, so Lindenwood could be be a long shot, given that their Women are already in the CHA. Utica was already denied once.

Any guesses on who that add, and how many?

 

[MeHateHe]

Condolences on your social life.

I said my existence on this thread. I am much more cosmopolitan than that. My existence in general is predicated on the hatred of teams with images of foliage or single letters of the alphabet on their chests.

 

[S E P H]

Stopping at the question was innocent. Continuing with "SEC hockey conference would quickly become the top hockey conf in the country" and beyond was either a troll or a delusion. Neither one should be considered a proud moment in HFB history.

I agree that SEC would "quickly become top" is naive considering they ain't getting top prospects from BC/BU/Minny/Michigan/Denver. Nonetheless, I would bypass that comment because it is naive and not focus on the ridiculous section of a person's post.

 

[JMCx4]

I agree that SEC would "quickly become top" is naive considering they ain't getting top prospects from BC/BU/Minny/Michigan/Denver. Nonetheless, I would bypass that comment because it is naive and not focus on the ridiculous section of a person's post.

Your preferences are duly noted.

 

[AintLifeGrand]

when the SEC does something they do it big....why would anyone pick BU over UGA, Bama, Auburn, Ole Miss, Florida , Tennessee etc if we operate under the assumption that these would be well executed big budget teams Ala Arizona State??

Your college experience is exponentially better at a southern/SEC school than Mercyhurst, BU, BC etc etc etc

 

[swansonsays]

I don't envy their fans, sitting on those sleds for 2-1/2+ hours per game ...

View attachment 776231

They are somehow worse than they look. Usually end up standing behind the end boards as 2.5 hours standing is more comfortable than those "seats."

 

[S E P H]

when the SEC does something they do it big....why would anyone pick BU over UGA, Bama, Auburn, Ole Miss, Florida , Tennessee etc if we operate under the assumption that these would be well executed big budget teams Ala Arizona State??

Your college experience is exponentially better at a southern/SEC school than Mercyhurst, BU, BC etc etc etc

Bruv, Mississippi has like 300 registered players. For SEC, you need states like this, Alabama, and South Carolina to be successful. There is no hockey culture down south and if SEC does something big, they first need the backbone for the sport first, we are 50 to 70 years too early for that to happen. Now with that said, I can eventually see some schools in Florida get D1 teams', but that is still very far in the future.

 

[EvilDead]

when the SEC does something they do it big....why would anyone pick BU over UGA, Bama, Auburn, Ole Miss, Florida , Tennessee etc if we operate under the assumption that these would be well executed big budget teams Ala Arizona State??

Your college experience is exponentially better at a southern/SEC school than Mercyhurst, BU, BC etc etc etc

Because BU has the coaching, facilities, history, and tougher conference. It also has the talent pool from decades of building up youth hockey in the Northeast that the Southeast simply just doesn't have yet.

 

[AintLifeGrand]

Bruv, Mississippi has like 300 registered players. For SEC, you need states like this, Alabama, and South Carolina to be successful. There is no hockey culture down south and if SEC does something big, they first need the backbone for the sport first, we are 50 to 70 years too early for that to happen. Now with that said, I can eventually see some schools in Florida get D1 teams', but that is still very far in the future.

NIL deals + poaching Canadian academy kids from
going to CHL… theres a glut of talent

why play in the CHL in a random town like. Kamloops or Missausauga when you can be a D1 athletw and make money in Athens GA

no one does NIL like the SEC

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

You've got a better chance of seeing San Jose State (or any other school, for that matter) restart its NCAA boxing program than you do of seeing even one of those schools start a hockey program.

And yes, there was once NCAA boxing: https://vault.si.com/vault/1960/04/25/the-end-of-college-boxing

California has a lot of high school programs. The FBS schools joining NCAA hockey would allow CA high school players to stay in-state for any college career they might pursue.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

when the SEC does something they do it big....why would anyone pick BU over UGA, Bama, Auburn, Ole Miss, Florida , Tennessee etc if we operate under the assumption that these would be well executed big budget teams Ala Arizona State??

Your college experience is exponentially better at a southern/SEC school than Mercyhurst, BU, BC etc etc etc

1. Hockey is a different animal than other sports. You can't expect the SEC to throw money at an issue (besides football) and be successful. Facilities are nice. Money is nice. But there is a reason Arizona State struggles every season to make the national rankings despite having a huge budget, a desirable school setting, plenty of money available and brand new facility while a school like Cornell plays in a old and col rec rink, with no scholarships, and yet has been nationally prominent for over 120 years. Cornell has

2. Don't compare college experiences at BU/BC and then Mercyhurst. Massively difference schools, massively different programs. BU has about 40,000 students, is a huge, regionally prominent university where hockey is the sport in a city that loves hockey at all levels. Ask Jack Eichel if he would rather have gone to a big southern school or Boston University I don't think you realize how big hockey is at some of these schools and how desireable they are. Heck, Leonard is playing at BC because he grew up watching it on TV, knows the history of the program, the success of their alumni in the NHL, the prominence of the program, and that's despite growing up in the backyard of another national powerhouse in UMass who won a national championship two years ago. Mercyhurst is a footnote in a small Erie, PA NCAA DII school which plays in a glorified rec rink. Playing for BU, BC, Maine, Minnesota, Michigan, any of those schools is a greater college experience than you think.

3. Where are these recruits coming from? Look at the three states which have always led the way for USA Hockey Participation numbers. The 3 M's. Minnesota, Michigan, Massachusetts. If you're from Minnesota, you grow up watching the Gophers, the Huskies, Fighting Hawks, increasingly the Mavericks and the Bulldogs. If you're from Michigan, you have an embarassment of schools nearby to watch. Same with Massachusetts kids who have easy access to Harvard, BU, BC, Northeastern. There is a reason why the Beanpot has regional ratings just shy of a NHL playoff game. No one from Milton, Massachusetts is going to choose Alabama over BU, it doesn't matter how much money you pump into it. No one from Plymouth, MN is going to reject Minnesota for Georgia. No one from Grand Rapids, MI is going to say no to Michigan and choose Florida instead.

4. Heck, even look at the current club scene. UNC and NC State play in front of a packed NHL arena, outdoor game, everything multiple times each season. That's an insanely good college experience. They can't even make it to the national tournament for the ACHA at the Men's Division II level! NC State is 9-9 this year, they played in front of a sold out lower bowl at the Hurricanes arena. They can't attract players on the level of Minot State, Ohio University, Liberty. Oregon is another good example of college experience not meaning **** when it comes to college hockey. It is a different animal.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

California has a lot of high school programs. The FBS schools joining NCAA hockey would allow CA high school players to stay in-state for any college career they might pursue.

Two sentences which contain completely false or irrelevant notions.

1. The False. There aren't "a lot of programs." Despite having by far the largest population of any state in the US, California has less than 75 school teams. For reference, Connecticut has more despite the entire state population having one million fewer people than the just the Inland Empire metor region and CT HS Hockey being an undesireable level of hockey.

2. The Irrelevant. No one is playing NCAA DI hockey out of California high school hockey. Well over 90% of current NCAA DI hockey players from California played in one of their three or prominent AAA programs or played most of their hockey elsewhere. The midget academies in the Northeast and Midwest seem to be the most popular options.

If you took the top 10 players who played CA HS hockey in the 2021-22 season, one plays in the NAHL and is maybe doing well enough to play NCAA DIII, one is playing low level Junior B, low level AAU, one isn't playing, one has "moved up" to a U18 AA program, ACHA DII at Arizona State and isn't enough good enough for their ACHA DI team, low level ACHA DII at Texas A&M, low level Tier III juniors maybe good enough for ACHA DI, a current 18 year old stay at home defenseman committed to Colorado college who played 17 games of high school hockey as a 13/14 year old and had 50 points, and another ACHA DII player who didn't make the ACHA DI program at Utah. The rest aren't even playing hockey as of the 23/24 season. Out of the top ten goalies, none is playing higher backup at the ACHA DII level and that's out of the 4 that are still playing hockey as of the 23/24 season.

If you have any other completely untrue or irrelevent things to spurt out, at least say something I can disprove or render mute in under 3 minutes. I hate having to do research to prove that utterly idiotic things are...well...utterly idiotic

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

NIL deals + poaching Canadian academy kids from
going to CHL… theres a glut of talent

why play in the CHL in a random town like. Kamloops or Missausauga when you can be a D1 athletw and make money in Athens GA

no one does NIL like the SEC

Complete lunacy. No one from a Canadian AAA academy is choosing to play nonexistent SEC hockey. NIL deals aren't the gamebreakers you're making them out to be. Ask anyone who played in Kamloops about what it's like to play there, listen to any stories from their alumni. No one from Red Deer knows about or cares about Athens, GA, likely never will.

when the SEC does something they do it big....why would anyone pick BU over UGA, Bama, Auburn, Ole Miss, Florida , Tennessee etc if we operate under the assumption that these would be well executed big budget teams Ala Arizona State??

Your college experience is exponentially better at a southern/SEC school than Mercyhurst, BU, BC etc etc etc

Hold on. You expect us to think anything you say has any value after you showed how little you know about college hockey in that Simon Fraser thread? Stop trolling.