I don't have the time right now to go and find it, but I came across it I believe in this forum...
College Hockey Expansion
forum.siouxsports.com
NCAA Hockey Expansion Thread
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MeHateHe
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- Dec 24, 2006
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Okay, I found it.I don't have the time right now to go and find it, but I came across it I believe in this forum...
College Hockey Expansion
forum.siouxsports.com
So to be clear, Simon Fraser the institution isn't pursuing NCAA, but rather the coach is continuing his Quixotic quest to join the NCAA - same as he's been doing for 11 years. First step: convince his school.
It's not serious.
Simon Fraser doesn't have a varsity hockey program. They have an eager alumni base that are willing to pony up dollars to make the Red Leafs the talk of the weakest college league in Canada.
Kudos to Mark Coletta, the Red Leafs coach, for trying to make a splash, Nailing down games against Boston College is surely a solid recruiting tool. But again, the university just cut its football program - which had been playing Div II in NCAA, and was the high profile sport on campus. Are they going to suddenly reverse course and decide they want to join NCAA division I hockey?
CrazyEddie20
Registered User
Re: the alleged video - if you can't find it, just watch the video I put below. Duffman is a metaphor for Simon Fraser:
AUS Fan
Registered User
- This was last year's news, but Greg Flugaur reported that Oregon would make an ice arena and promote their programme to DI to get a spot in Big Ten in around six years. Well, that has happened...them getting a Big Ten spot at least.
Fluguar is the one who broke the USC/UCLA to Big Ten news. Petitti, the new commissioner seems like someone who's not interested in hockey, there were soft rumours that their hockey conference wasn't going to increase any time soon or didn't really care about trying to expand it.
- San Diego State University doing a feasibility study for a DI programme.
www.collegehockeyinsider.com
Fluguar is the one who broke the USC/UCLA to Big Ten news. Petitti, the new commissioner seems like someone who's not interested in hockey, there were soft rumours that their hockey conference wasn't going to increase any time soon or didn't really care about trying to expand it.
- San Diego State University doing a feasibility study for a DI programme.
(#225) A new D-I feasibility study, maybe? Weekend reactions from AHA, B10, CCHA
In today’s issue (#225) according to a consulting firm, there is a new D-I feasibility study happening on the west coast.
www.collegehockeyinsider.com
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AUS Fan
Registered User
CrazyEddie20
Registered User
- This was last year's news, but Greg Flugaur reported that Oregon would make an ice arena and promote their programme to DI to get a spot in Big Ten in around six years. Well, that has happened...them getting a Big Ten spot at least.
Fluguar is the one who broke the USC/UCLA to Big Ten news. Petitti, the new commissioner seems like someone who's not interested in hockey, there were soft rumours that their hockey conference wasn't going to increase any time soon or didn't really care about trying to expand it.
- San Diego State University doing a feasibility study for a DI programme, since they would play out of the new Barracuda rink.
(#225) A new D-I feasibility study, maybe? Weekend reactions from AHA, B10, CCHA
In today’s issue (#225) according to a consulting firm, there is a new D-I feasibility study happening on the west coast.
If Oregon builds a rink, they'll likely start a Division I program. That said, they need to find $100 million minimum to build a rink that would meet the standard set by the rest of their athletic facilities. Phil Knight has money, but an amount that large isn't coming from him alone, especially since Nike is out of the hockey business.
And San Diego State is going to play at a rink in a city nine hours north of campus? Sure...
Get to Know Non-NCAA (Club) College Hockey - Neutral Zone
By Brian Murphy This article was published free thanks to the support of HockeyGear Pro-Shop who do a lot of work for team orders with non-NCAA and NCAA teams. Great... Read more
www.neutralzone.net
Ex-UNC coach, "a matter of when and not if" for North Carolina going DI. If it was the coach going crazy about it, then I would reserve judgment, but mentioning "boosters" seems to have more ground.
CrazyEddie20
Registered User
Get to Know Non-NCAA (Club) College Hockey - Neutral Zone
By Brian Murphy This article was published free thanks to the support of HockeyGear Pro-Shop who do a lot of work for team orders with non-NCAA and NCAA teams. Great... Read more
Ex-UNC coach, "a matter of when and not if" for North Carolina going DI. If it was the coach going crazy about it, then I would reserve judgment, but mentioning "boosters" seems to have more ground.
So here again is a big problem with the fart-sniffing fanboi expansionist mindset: A club clown coach says, "It's a matter of when, not if!" and suddenly the leap to "UNC IS STARTING A DIVISION I HOCKEY PROGRAM!" is made.
The club clown coach has an interest in saying this, because it attracts better players who think, "Gee, if they're going Division I, I'll have a chance to play Division I!" (Which they don't, because if they could play Division I, they'd have played Division I from the hop.)
And while the "boosters" may be saying this, and may be the ones who fund it, it's not their decision to make. The AD, the athletics department, and the administration have the final say, not the boosters or a club clown coach.
If this were really a possibility, why isn't Volkmann staying?
mk80
Registered User
- Jul 30, 2012
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With the exception of Le Moyne; more on that in a moment. This whole post is quite a reach, and nothing truly current in terms of college hockey expansion news.
With Le Moyne’s jump to Division I, could hockey and football be on the way? (5 takeaways)
Le Moyne held an on-campus event on Thursday celebrating its choice to move up to Division I.www.syracuse.com
- Le Moynes moving all sports to DI and AD wants to bring hockey to the school. The current AD was an executive chair at Atlantic Hockey.
- Keene State is making a DIII men's and women's hockey team.
- Simon Fraser still trying to make a DI NCAA program. They are playing seven DI teams this year including Michigan, BU, BC, CC, Robert Morris, Lake Superior, and LIU.
Maryville Adds Competitive Men’s Club Ice Hockey; John Hogan Named Head Coach - Maryville University Athletics
Maryville University announced that it will add a competitive men's club ice hockey team for the 2018-19 academic year. St. Louis native John Hogan has been namedmaryvillesaints.com
- Maryville would consider a DI move if the club is successful enough.
Between the Lines: Midseason Report
We're at the traditional halfway point of the season, so it's time to reflect on what's been (even though it's not really halfway yet for a lot of teams). It used to be that many teams...www.collegehockeynews.com
- Missouri-Kansas City is looking to also consider DI hockey, which would be interesting for a future Summit Conference.
- UPenn trying to resurrect its DI programme by 2025 with endowment money used to upgrade its hockey arena. Supposedly the plan was to be ACHA DI by 2020, which never happened.
A paywall for the article from the Syracuse newspaper regarding Le Moyne prevents me from reading more than the first paragraph. But I'm going to say hockey is not in the cards for the Dolphins now or in the near future. Sure the AD has some background with Atlantic Hockey, the NCAA hockey rules committee, etc. and while college hockey people being in other administrative roles is good to see. I'm going to defer to their announcement that doesn't contain any mention of strategic plans to add anything to their current sports offerings with the move LE MOYNE COLLEGE MAKES MOVE TO DIVISION I: ACCEPTS INVITATION TO JOIN NORTHEAST CONFERENCE - Le Moyne College Athletics
Simon Fraser's games against the NCAA teams are now more of a result of the new rules allowing NCAA teams to play exhibition games that came out of Covid. On that subject it's why more ACHA programs are playing exhibition games against NCAA opponents. SFU had been looking into adding hockey as a NCAA D1 sport, but that was back in 2017-2018. Since then nothing has come of it, and as others have pointed out, they've dropped football, although part of that decision is related to conference shuffling around them and not finding a conference home for football.
Maryville you dug up a press release from 2018. Other than a throw away line at the end of it, no actual news has happened since. Having to reach all the way back to 2018 doesn't inspire much confidence in the way of momentum there. Maryville's campus is located about 10 minutes from where I live, and they've been experiencing a renaissance as a university lately, adding some new sports in the last few years such as hockey, rugby at the club levels, men's and women's lacrosse and field hockey in the NCAA D2. They've built a new athletic complex for those additions and a new softball field, meanwhile renovating other existing facilities and added more dorm spaces, and have been increasing their enrollment. Additionally they partnered with the local Chesterfield Youth Hockey program to build the Maryville University Hockey Center, a lovely two sheet facility to give both Maryville and the Chesterfield Falcons a home. There is also expansion room for a third sheet of ice with additional seating and I do know the goal is to eventually build that out but that's mainly due to the need for more ice to house all the demand for the use of the facility.
Coach Hogan and those I know who work for the Maryville athletic department and the hockey team have done a great job of growing the program since it's founding back in 2018. I know coach Hogan would definitely like to see his program at the NCAA level someday as many ACHA coaches do. But from the university perspective I doubt there is much in the way of immediate movement to add an NCAA D1 hockey program, although I wouldn't entirely rule out such a move well into the future: think 2030 and beyond. In fact the university has just in the last few weeks had to go back to the drawing board on building a new basketball and Esports arena https://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis...university-esports-arena-dorm-woods-mill.html
One thing to note about Maryville as a school is that they are really out of expansion space as their campus is bordered by Interstate 64, State route 141, a hospital (that has also bought up surrounding properties), some nice neighborhoods, and an office park. so the growth they've been experiencing can only go so far right now.
UMKC has been discussed previously in this thread back in 2021, early 2022 when that article was published. Discussion about it was brief due to the fact, there has been nothing linking them to any movement on adding hockey. They just announced a new arena for basketball and volleyball, I would think if hockey was in the cards that announcement was an opportunity to include a hockey configuration in the design of it. Kansas City Athletics Begins Next Step in Elevation; Explores New On-Campus Arena - University of Missouri-Kansas City
UPenn can check a couple of boxes on the list of needs to add a D1 hockey program. They have a rink, although it would need upgrading. And they have an endowment of $20 billion according to their own Office of Investments About Us | Penn Office of Investments They would also pretty much have a guaranteed conference home in the ECAC if they ever did resurrect their D1 program. If they wanted hockey, they could have it. And the ACHA team was also unable to complete their own fundraising efforts to convince the university to add it. You already noted in your original post that nothing ever happened and they didn't reach their goals, so why dig it up and include it as if the news was current?
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JMCx4
#HopeForHUTCH
CrazyEddie20
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MeHateHe
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- Dec 24, 2006
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Don't shoot the messenger, because I think this proposal is nuts.
theprovince.com
There's a few things in here I didn't know, including that the school had commissioned a study to see what it would cost to run a hockey program. In 2017, that number was in the $1.5 million (Canadian, presumably) range. The coach, today, nearly seven years later, thinks he can do it for a cool million, rounding up, and he's telling people he can get that money without asking the school for a penny. The other thing I didn't know was that the school currently doesn't have a director of athletics, and apparently has no timeline for finding one.
A couple of questions for those of you who know better: 1) does the NCAA require schools to have an on-campus rink as a condition of membership and 2) would the novelty of having a Canadian team in a conference outweigh the additional travel hassles of taking teams to Vancouver once a season?
There are other considerations as well, covered in the article. There's a ton of hockey in metro Vancouver, with the Canucks and their AHL affiliate in Abbotsford, plus the WHL Giants in Langley. Given that university hockey has no long-term history of high levels of support anywhere in Canada, how likely is it that a new team is suddenly going to draw enough fan and corporate support to operate without actual dollars from the university?
Could the SFU Red Leafs make NCAA Div. I men's hockey work?
Longtime club team coach Mark Coletta believes that it could, and he's landed games against Michigan and Boston College to help buzz
theprovince.com
There's a few things in here I didn't know, including that the school had commissioned a study to see what it would cost to run a hockey program. In 2017, that number was in the $1.5 million (Canadian, presumably) range. The coach, today, nearly seven years later, thinks he can do it for a cool million, rounding up, and he's telling people he can get that money without asking the school for a penny. The other thing I didn't know was that the school currently doesn't have a director of athletics, and apparently has no timeline for finding one.
A couple of questions for those of you who know better: 1) does the NCAA require schools to have an on-campus rink as a condition of membership and 2) would the novelty of having a Canadian team in a conference outweigh the additional travel hassles of taking teams to Vancouver once a season?
There are other considerations as well, covered in the article. There's a ton of hockey in metro Vancouver, with the Canucks and their AHL affiliate in Abbotsford, plus the WHL Giants in Langley. Given that university hockey has no long-term history of high levels of support anywhere in Canada, how likely is it that a new team is suddenly going to draw enough fan and corporate support to operate without actual dollars from the university?
CrazyEddie20
Registered User
In re: question No. 1, no, the NCAA doesn't require an on-campus rink. They don't require anything, other than that the checks for membership fees and such clear the bank. It's the conferences that would want to see solid facilities. Several of the lesser Division I schools play off campus.Don't shoot the messenger, because I think this proposal is nuts.
Could the SFU Red Leafs make NCAA Div. I men's hockey work?
Longtime club team coach Mark Coletta believes that it could, and he's landed games against Michigan and Boston College to help buzz
There's a few things in here I didn't know, including that the school had commissioned a study to see what it would cost to run a hockey program. In 2017, that number was in the $1.5 million (Canadian, presumably) range. The coach, today, nearly seven years later, thinks he can do it for a cool million, rounding up, and he's telling people he can get that money without asking the school for a penny. The other thing I didn't know was that the school currently doesn't have a director of athletics, and apparently has no timeline for finding one.
A couple of questions for those of you who know better: 1) does the NCAA require schools to have an on-campus rink as a condition of membership and 2) would the novelty of having a Canadian team in a conference outweigh the additional travel hassles of taking teams to Vancouver once a season?
There are other considerations as well, covered in the article. There's a ton of hockey in metro Vancouver, with the Canucks and their AHL affiliate in Abbotsford, plus the WHL Giants in Langley. Given that university hockey has no long-term history of high levels of support anywhere in Canada, how likely is it that a new team is suddenly going to draw enough fan and corporate support to operate without actual dollars from the university?
As to No. 2, no, the novelty of a Canadian team would not ever, under any circumstances, outweigh the hassles of going to Vancouver. Alaska's two college hockey programs are barely surviving due to similar issues.
And as to No. 3, "how likely is it that a new team is suddenly going to draw enough fan and corporate support to operate without actual dollars from the university?" It's fantastically unlikely. Millions of dollars to start the program won't just appear out of thin air, and just because the team is there doesn't mean fans are going to show up. In Canada's major cities, fans can't be bothered to watch non-NHL hockey. Do you really think they're really going to show up to a tiny barn to watch an American product in numbers enough to make an NCAA program break even? The donors aren't there, the sponsorships aren't there, the ticket revenue won't be there, and this coach is another slick club clown trying to sell himself.
MeHateHe
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- Dec 24, 2006
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First off, it would be a cheque, not a check. And, uh, well, there isn't anything else here.
As expected. And the hassles of crossing an international border would compound any problem they have of just flying to their own country.
This was actually a rhetorical question. Of course the fan support isn't there. That's just crazy. However, I will give this guy credit for drumming up a healthy amount of corporate support - enough to essentially run two teams. I don't understand what's in it for the corporate sponsors, who generally want to support things that are popular so as to, you know, generate sales so they can recoup their losses. So something would have to give there, surely.
I think it's great to dream big. I just don't understand how anyone can take this seriously. I never expect sports reporters to ask hard questions or do any digging beyond the 'how does this win make you feel" questions, but the holes in this proposal are just so damn glaring.
JMCx4
#HopeForHUTCH
If the Red Leafs joined a U.S.-based hockey conference, international monetary rules would DEMAND all member dues payments be made by 'ck' checks. Not to mention that "checks" are the traditional hockey currency when it comes to paying it forward.
CrazyEddie20
Registered User
If the fan support isn't there, the sponsor support won't be, either. Sports sponsorship is just another form of advertising, with the ticket holders as the audience. No one is going to pony up money for ads for a team that draws 200 per game unless they have some deep emotional connection.
AUS Fan
Registered User
Cheque vs check. Most countries use check which is the Americanization of cheque.If the Red Leafs joined a U.S.-based hockey conference, international monetary rules would DEMAND all member dues payments be made by 'ck' checks. Not to mention that "checks" are the traditional hockey currency when it comes to paying it forward.
Americans dropped the u from neighbour, harbour, colour, labour, honour, favourite, behaviour,and othes to simplify the spelling.
JMCx4
#HopeForHUTCH
Those weren't intended to "simplify" ... those were to "correct" the Hoser dialect.
MeHateHe
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- Dec 24, 2006
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A thousand years ago on a stupid CBC cooking show called Wok with Yan, the host told a stupid joke about a Brit and a Yank arguing over what you call the window in the front of your car: the Brit called it a 'windscreen' and the Yank calling it 'windshield.' "Who invented the car?" asked the Yank, to argue his point, to which the Brit replied "Yeah, but who invented the English language?"Those weren't intended to "simplify" ... those were to "correct" the Hoser dialect.
I swear I'm not making up a single fact about that paragraph. Our friend Mr. Yan spoke in a thick Chinese accent because the 1970s were great.
Anyway, I'm all in in favour of simplifying the language. But that's a nife that cuts both ways, and I will say gud nite to yu al.
JMCx4
#HopeForHUTCH
You must've meant the 970s were great. I know, math is hard for all of us. Or "maths" as the Limeys insist.
MeHateHe
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- Dec 24, 2006
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That's not math. That's arithmetic.You must've meant the 970s were great. I know, math is hard for all of us. Or "maths" as the Limeys insist.
And we're so far off topic I can't see to the top of Burnaby Mountain, the location of Simon Fraser University.
JMCx4
#HopeForHUTCH
Hollywood3
Bison/Jet/Moose Fan
- May 12, 2007
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My points on StFU:
1. Their football program was their calling card. They were Canada West doormats but thought that moving back to the States would draw hordes of fans. They drew maybe 500 per game in a crap conference. The team folded because their conference folded their football league, they played in Texas, and were advised the conference would not renew them.
2. Their female AD left after cutting football. Her decision was not popular with alumni.
3. Their current hockey team would be the weakest in USports.
4. They do try hard to market, but the crowds aren't there.
5. Away games would mostly be two or three hours early, making local TV/streaming unprofitable.
6. Getting teams to host them may not work long-term if they don't improve their team.
7. I am sure that Arizona and the Alaska teams would be happy to play home-and-home with them.
1. Their football program was their calling card. They were Canada West doormats but thought that moving back to the States would draw hordes of fans. They drew maybe 500 per game in a crap conference. The team folded because their conference folded their football league, they played in Texas, and were advised the conference would not renew them.
2. Their female AD left after cutting football. Her decision was not popular with alumni.
3. Their current hockey team would be the weakest in USports.
4. They do try hard to market, but the crowds aren't there.
5. Away games would mostly be two or three hours early, making local TV/streaming unprofitable.
6. Getting teams to host them may not work long-term if they don't improve their team.
7. I am sure that Arizona and the Alaska teams would be happy to play home-and-home with them.
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