NCAA Hockey Expansion Thread

[mk80]

With Arizona State joining NCHC, this might potentially create a pathway for the University of Arizona to have a conference if they ever decided to join (dispensing one of the major hurdles in starting a programme: a conference and multimillion dollars). However, instead of the rumours of any new programmes starting, I think there are better and more interesting rumours out there of another major conference realignment.

What are we thinking could happen?

- NCHC rebranding into Summit Sports? Seems like a long-term future sort of move.

- Augustana University to CCHA. This was confirmed.
- Robert Morris University to Atlantic Hockey. This was confirmed.

- University of Miami (OH) joins CCHA.
- Lindenwood University joins CCHA.

- Minnesota State University joins NCHC.

- Quinnipiac University joins Hockey East.

- Merrimack College joins ECAC.

- Long Island University joins Atlantic Hockey.
- Stonehill College joins Atlantic Hockey.
- Birmingham University joins Atlantic Hockey.
- Utica University joins Atlantic Hockey.

Based on those moves,
- Atlantic Hockey: Gains 5 teams for 15 teams (maybe two conferences)
- Big10: Gains 0
- CCHA: Gains 2 teams for 10 teams
- ECAC: Gains 0
- Hockey East: Gains 0
- NCHC: Gains 1 team for 9 teams

I suspect that one of those teams joining Atlantic Hockey maybe finds their way to ECAC like Long Island or Stonehill.

Regarding the bolded, Merrimack is not leaving Hockey East at all. There is a rift between many Atlantic Hockey members and LIU currently which is one of the reasons LIU has had to remain independent. Some of these schools opposed to LIU still refuse to even schedule them. Similarly the ECAC is not taking any school that isn't Ivy League, so unless UPenn ever gets a donor to restart varsity hockey you won't be seeing the ECAC take in anyone.

For Miami, they have been very vocal about not being happy with their current situation in the NCHC and the AD had said he was opposed to adding ASU (another lengthy road trip for them), but two things keep them in the NCHC, mainly they don't want to pay the exorbitant NCHC exit fee plus the CCHA expansion fee. So they won't leave unless the NCHC allows them out for free, which isn't likely. In addition to that Bowling Green the closest CCHA team to Miami has an ongoing feud as well and refuses to schedule Miami for the last few years, so I would also question whether BGSU would support Miami's bid to enter the CCHA.

As for CCHA teams potentially moving to the NCHC, while MN State Mankato would be the most common thought given their rejected previous application, and program success under Mike Hastings. But in my opinion, I believe of the current CCHA members, St. Thomas would have the inside track to NCHC membership once their new arena is constructed. They are already Summit League members with other NCHC members. But even once their arena is completed I wouldn't say a conference move is imminent or guarantee one would even happen.

 

[JBoss83]

Been thinking about reorganizing college hockey so it makes some sense. I restructured conferences to be more geographical to cut down on travel costs. I know this will never happen because it makes too much sense and doesn't take into account egos. I have included those schools who have announced future NCAA D1 programs. Also, leaves room for Western expansion and some central/northern expansion.

Atlantic Hockey (12 teams)​

RIT​

AIC​

Sacred Heart​

Canisius​

Army​

Niagara​

Holy Cross​

Mercyhurst​

Bentley​

LIU​

Stonehill​

Binghamton​

​

Big Ten (7 teams)​

Minnesota​

Michigan​

Ohio State​

Notre Dame​

Michigan State​

Penn State​

Wisconsin​

​

Northern Collegiate Hockey (8 teams)​

Minnesota State​

Bemidji State​

St. Thomas​

Augustana​

Omaha​

St. Cloud​

North Dakota​

Minnesota Duluth​

​

ECAC (12 teams)​

Quinnipiac​

Harvard​

Cornell​

St. Lawrence​

Colgate​

Clarkson​

Princeton​

Rensselaer​

Union​

Yale​

Brown​

Dartmouth​

​

Hockey East (11 teams)​

Boston University​

Merrimack​

Northeastern​

Connecticut​

UMass Lowell​

Providence​

Maine​

Boston College​

Massachusetts​

New Hampshire​

Vermont​

​

Western Collegiate Hockey (6 teams)​

Arizona State​

Denver​

Alaska​

Alaska Anchorage​

Colorado College​

Air Force​

​

Central Collegiate Hockey (8 teams)​

Michigan Tech​

Bowling Green​

Northern Michigan​

Ferris State​

Lake Superior​

Western Michigan​

Miami​

Lindenwood​

 

[JMCx4]

Been thinking about reorganizing college hockey so it makes some sense. ...

It must come with a tremendous burden, being the U S. College & University DI Men's Ice Hockey Reorganizing Committee-of-One. Let us know if we can help ease your load.

 

[S E P H]

Been thinking about reorganizing college hockey so it makes some sense. I restructured conferences to be more geographical to cut down on travel costs. I know this will never happen because it makes too much sense and doesn't take into account egos. I have included those schools who have announced future NCAA D1 programs. Also, leaves room for Western expansion and some central/northern expansion.

​

Big Ten (7 teams)​

Minnesota​

Michigan​

Ohio State​

Notre Dame​

Michigan State​

Penn State​

Wisconsin​

​

Northern Collegiate Hockey (8 teams)​

Minnesota State​

Bemidji State​

St. Thomas​

Augustana​

Omaha​

St. Cloud​

North Dakota​

Minnesota Duluth​

​

If Big10 were smart, they would accept North Dakota, but I get that the conference cares much about academics and North Dakota is more along the lines of ASU: almost willing to accept anyone.

Similarly the ECAC is not taking any school that isn't Ivy League, so unless UPenn ever gets a donor to restart varsity hockey you won't be seeing the ECAC take in anyone.

I get that, but ECAC have many other teams than just Ivy. Union doesn't really have the academic stats of Ivy schools. Neither does Clarkson or St. Lawerance as well, if one of the schools was more in line with the tradition and values of Ivy, it would be Colgate. Maybe the other teams were grandfathered in the conference, but if UPitt ever resurrected their hockey programme again, I think ECAC would love to have them.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

If Big10 were smart, they would accept North Dakota, but I get that the conference cares much about academics and North Dakota is more along the lines of ASU: almost willing to accept anyone.

B10 has nothing to gain by adding North Dakota. No idea why you think they ought to take them in.

If Big10 were smart, they would accept North Dakota, but I get that the conference cares much about academics and North Dakota is more along the lines of ASU: almost willing to accept anyone.


I get that, but ECAC have many other teams than just Ivy. Union doesn't really have the academic stats of Ivy schools. Neither does Clarkson or St. Lawerance as well, if one of the schools was more in line with the tradition and values of Ivy, it would be Colgate. Maybe the other teams were grandfathered in the conference, but if UPitt ever resurrected their hockey programme again, I think ECAC would love to have them.

I know your knowledge of hockey and North America in general is exceptionally limited, but here are some news alerts for you.

Union College is part of a group known as the Little Ivies. It has exceptionally high academic standards. Same thing with Colgate.
Clarkson is one of the top engineering schools in the country.
SLU is one of the top liberal arts schools in the country.
Quinnipiac is a smallish private university with extremely high end academics.

ECAC wouldn't love to have Pitt, it doesn't match their profile or geography in the slightest. They also don't give a care about any non-Ivies or D1 little Ivies, the conference hasn't added since 2005 with the addition of Q'pac and hasn't subtracted since 2006 with Vermont.

If you do want to keep proving how insufferable unknowledgeable you are about nearly everything on the planet, please put some sort of warning notice before all your posts.

 

[S E P H]

B10 has nothing to gain by adding North Dakota. No idea why you think they ought to take them in.

Minnesota? The best rivalry in college hockey and I am a fan of the nether club (and I am just saying for college hockey as they did with Notre Dame).

Union College is part of a group known as the Little Ivies. I

Little Ivies seems like a made-up name to make smaller schools feel relevant. Not sure if any of them are better than the likes of Stanford, UChicago, Notre Dame, Duke, or Northwestern.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Minnesota? The best rivalry in college hockey and I am a fan of the nether club (and I am just saying for college hockey as they did with Notre Dame).

Little Ivies seems like a made-up name to make smaller schools feel relevant. Not sure if any of them are better than the likes of Stanford, UChicago, Notre Dame, Duke, or Northwestern.

If you think Minnesota-North Dakota is a rivalry worthy of bringing them into the Big10, you truly know less about college hockey in the USA than I originally gave you credit for. And that is a low amount to begin with. You don't bring in a whole other school for a small-to medium intensity rivalry with one of the schools.

I also truly pity you if you think Minnesota-North Dakota is anywhere near the intensity of Boston College-Boston University, Michigan-Michigan State, Michigan-Ohio, Clarkson-St. Lawrence, Colorado College-Air Force, Air Force-Army, Cornell-Harvard, Harvard-Yale, etc. NoDake-Minny is more along the lines of a RPI-Union.

Little Ivies aren't made up. They are legit. Alumni, donor bases, research excellence, awards, everything you can think of is either on par with Ivy League institutions or slightly behind simply due to scale.


Now is there anything else coming out of your mouth for the rest of the day that is easily disprovable or can display further your ineptitude?

 

[mk80]

Barclay is right about the Little Ivies and other such high standard academic schools which is why they round the remainder of non-Ivy League ECAC membership.

As far as rivalries are concerned, no matter how big or small, they don't really factor in conference membership.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

Now is there anything else coming out of your mouth for the rest of the day that is easily disprovable or can display further your ineptitude?

Just wait. The "WHL Scout" will undoubtedly spew some more unenlightened hot takes unsupported by facts or reality in the near future.

 

[AUS Fan]

Just wait. The "WHL Scout" will undoubtedly spew some more unenlightened hot takes unsupported by facts or reality in the near future.

Tough crowd.....

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Just wait. The "WHL Scout" will undoubtedly spew some more unenlightened hot takes unsupported by facts or reality in the near future.

Shall we start a thread to contain his cavalcade of delusional ideas so we have a designated spot to gobsmack him back into reality, like we did with our Manchester-obsessed companion? We can name it "Dumb NCAA Hockey Expansion Ideas" thread to disassociate it with this thread, which is actually home to actual news of college expansion having served as a place of discussion for LIU, Lindenwood, St. Thomas, Dubuque, Augustana, etc. The alternative thread can be home to discussion on the NCAA DI ice hockey aspirations of schools like the University of Tennessee upgrading their Volts, the fantastic athletic program once mentioned by our friend hailing from the Land of the Winged Hussars.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Tough crowd.....

There are only two things tougher in this world than this crowd:

The second is @S E P H's skull
The first is the metaphorical sledgehammer used to demolish the ridiculous ideas that previously mentioned hallow object tries to offer as "rational thinking"

 

[AUS Fan]

There are only two things tougher in this world than this crowd:

The second is @S E P H's skull
The first is the metaphorical sledgehammer used to demolish the ridiculous ideas that previously mentioned hallow object tries to offer as "rational thinking"

I'm not as ingrained in NCAA as some of you guys, so I'll defer to y'all on these topics.

I know a kid who was at Cornell and I know the rivalry with Harvard is intense.

I'm just along for the ride, trying to learn stuff.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

Tough crowd.....

When someone holds themselves out as a "WHL Scout," as S E P H did in his twitter profile, he should expect to be ridiculed when it's revealed that he knows absolutely nothing about Major Junior's No. 1 competitor for players.

https://twitter.com/SEPH_WHL/

Let's not forget that the only place listing someone by the name used on that twitter profile as a WHL scout is... that twitter profile.



I'm all for new teams playing real college hockey, provided it doesn't destroy the great culture college hockey has built over the years. More often than not, the pie-in-the-sky expansionists want exactly that. College hockey is unique in that 2,000-student liberal arts colleges compete year-in, year-out with Big Ten schools, other large state schools, commuter schools, and the like. The expansionists always seem to want bigger schools, which isn't always better. College hockey wasn't made better by a Big Ten conference, as we were told by so many that it would be. It's only made it more difficult for a lot of the smaller schools to compete both financially and recruiting-wise.

The financial and Title IX compliance issues new college hockey programs are very, very real, and the pie-in-the-sky expansionists like the Polish Putz ignore them, then complain when they get laughed at for ignoring them. There's never rational thought involved with these people.

 

[S E P H]

When someone holds themselves out as a "WHL Scout," as S E P H did in his twitter profile, he should expect to be ridiculed when it's revealed that he knows absolutely nothing about Major Junior's No. 1 competitor for players.

https://twitter.com/SEPH_WHL/

Let's not forget that the only place listing someone by the name used on that twitter profile as a WHL scout is... that twitter profile.



I'm all for new teams playing real college hockey, provided it doesn't destroy the great culture college hockey has built over the years. More often than not, the pie-in-the-sky expansionists want exactly that. College hockey is unique in that 2,000-student liberal arts colleges compete year-in, year-out with Big Ten schools, other large state schools, commuter schools, and the like. The expansionists always seem to want bigger schools, which isn't always better. College hockey wasn't made better by a Big Ten conference, as we were told by so many that it would be. It's only made it more difficult for a lot of the smaller schools to compete both financially and recruiting-wise.

The financial and Title IX compliance issues new college hockey programs are very, very real, and the pie-in-the-sky expansionists like the Polish Putz ignore them, then complain when they get laughed at for ignoring them. There's never rational thought involved with these people.

If you're going to mention my Twitter so much, at least give me a follow blud.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

If you're going to mention my Twitter so much, at least give me a follow blud.

I don't follow fake scouts, but it's nice of you to admit that you're full of crap right out in the open for everyone to see - as if we didn't already know from your posts.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

Here's what I think will happen in re: college hockey expansion this year:

Neither Lindenwood, Stonehill, nor LIU will finish the year anywhere near .500.

Robert Morris will not win five games in their first season back in Division I.

Alabama-Huntsville will not restart and the program will finally be declared dead.

Alaska-Anchorage will improve to near .500, but will have a difficult schedule.

At least two other Division II schools, likely Franklin Pierce and St. Anselm, will join Stonehill in Division I.

Tennessee State will do very little towards actually starting a club program.

Illinois will announce they aren't going forward with a real college hockey program.

At least one other school in Division I will announce the end of their program.

 

[JMCx4]

Here's what I think will happen in re: college hockey expansion this year:

Neither Lindenwood, Stonehill, nor LIU will finish the year anywhere near .500. ...

If those schools were allowed to combine their wins, and halve their total losses, would they achieve a .500 record? Asking for a friend with a stats fetish.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

If those schools were allowed to combine their wins, and halve their total losses, would they achieve a .500 record? Asking for a friend with a stats fetish.

I mean, sure, but they'll still have played the games, and all of us who live in reality will still know they weren't anywhere near .500.

 

[mk80]

Here's what I think will happen in re: college hockey expansion this year:

Neither Lindenwood, Stonehill, nor LIU will finish the year anywhere near .500.

Robert Morris will not win five games in their first season back in Division I.

Alabama-Huntsville will not restart and the program will finally be declared dead.

Alaska-Anchorage will improve to near .500, but will have a difficult schedule.

At least two other Division II schools, likely Franklin Pierce and St. Anselm, will join Stonehill in Division I.

Tennessee State will do very little towards actually starting a club program.

Illinois will announce they aren't going forward with a real college hockey program.

At least one other school in Division I will announce the end of their program.

LIU and Stonehill are scheduled to play a grand total of 8 games against each other this year. LIU also plays 2 games against Saint Anselm and 1 vs Simon Fraser.

All evidence to the fact that LIU still in what will be their 3rd full year, 4th overall counting the shortened 2020-21 season, has trouble scheduling games against a lot of surrounding schools, especially with Robert Morris re-entering into AHA and thus limiting the availability of non-conference dates from other AHA schools. The same could probably be inferred with Stonehill as well.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

LIU and Stonehill are scheduled to play a grand total of 8 games against each other this year. LIU also plays 2 games against Saint Anselm and 1 vs Simon Fraser.

All evidence to the fact that LIU still in what will be their 3rd full year, 4th overall counting the shortened 2020-21 season, has trouble scheduling games against a lot of surrounding schools, especially with Robert Morris re-entering into AHA and thus limiting the availability of non-conference dates from other AHA schools. The same could probably be inferred with Stonehill as well.

Being in a conference is important. Just ask Alabama-Huntsville!

This is a problem of LIU's own making. They started a program with the bare minimum of facilities and funding and no conference home. For St. A's and Stonehill and the rest of Division II schools that will follow them soon, they're familiar with the other programs moving up and will get something together and LIU will probably be a part of that out of convenience. Atlantic Hockey isn't taking those schools.

The other problem with scheduling for LIU is this: because their strength of schedule is so minimal, losing to LIU is a huge blow to a better program's RPI - one would be a proverbial death blow to a program on the bubble of getting into the NCAA Tournament. Coaches know that and don't schedule them. They also don't schedule them because beating a program like LIU also does bupkes to improve the better program's RPI.

There are several quality games on LIU's schedule this year: one game against Quinnipiac, one against Penn State, one game against BC, and a pair against Colgate. Holy Cross, AIC and Yale are decent. Brown will give them a game.

But eight games against Stonehill, six against the Alaska schools, Lindenwood, Vermont, Colorado College, Omaha - these aren't strong teams they're facing.

 

[havasasabata]

Being in a conference is important. Just ask Alabama-Huntsville!

This is a problem of LIU's own making. They started a program with the bare minimum of facilities and funding and no conference home. For St. A's and Stonehill and the rest of Division II schools that will follow them soon, they're familiar with the other programs moving up and will get something together and LIU will probably be a part of that out of convenience. Atlantic Hockey isn't taking those schools.

The other problem with scheduling for LIU is this: because their strength of schedule is so minimal, losing to LIU is a huge blow to a better program's RPI - one would be a proverbial death blow to a program on the bubble of getting into the NCAA Tournament. Coaches know that and don't schedule them. They also don't schedule them because beating a program like LIU also does bupkes to improve the better program's RPI.

Besides this I ordered from here https://edubirdie.com/do-my-assignment an assignment, about this problem and the guys have clarified in the given writing very clearly how should be done in such a case and their predictions based on the information I provided them.

There are several quality games on LIU's schedule this year: one game against Quinnipiac, one against Penn State, one game against BC, and a pair against Colgate. Holy Cross, AIC and Yale are decent. Brown will give them a game.

But eight games against Stonehill, six against the Alaska schools, Lindenwood, Vermont, Colorado College, Omaha - these aren't strong teams they're facing.

While LIU may have faced challenges in their program's inception, it's important to note that being in a conference isn't the only indicator of a team's success or value. LIU's schedule includes notable opponents like Quinnipiac, Penn State, BC, and Colgate, which will provide them with opportunities to prove themselves. Additionally, every team goes through a process of growth, and it's possible for LIU to improve their strength of schedule over time, thereby contributing positively to other teams' RPI standings.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

While LIU may have faced challenges in their program's inception, it's important to note that being in a conference isn't the only indicator of a team's success or value. LIU's schedule includes notable opponents like Quinnipiac, Penn State, BC, and Colgate, which will provide them with opportunities to prove themselves. Additionally, every team goes through a process of growth, and it's possible for LIU to improve their strength of schedule over time, thereby contributing positively to other teams' RPI standings.

Aside from Arizona State in 2019, no independent has ever made the NCAA Tournament, which is the true marker of success and value for any college hockey program. If you make the tournament, you get a share of the NCAA Tournament revenue and invaluable publicity for the school.

There's a reason that independents don't make it. There's a reason more teams from the strongest conference, whichever it may be each year (well, except AH), make the tournament.

 

[S E P H]

While LIU may have faced challenges in their program's inception, it's important to note that being in a conference isn't the only indicator of a team's success or value. LIU's schedule includes notable opponents like Quinnipiac, Penn State, BC, and Colgate, which will provide them with opportunities to prove themselves. Additionally, every team goes through a process of growth, and it's possible for LIU to improve their strength of schedule over time, thereby contributing positively to other teams' RPI standings.

How many of those are home games? Getting to play Penn State can be huge, but if the majority of them are on the road, then they're still considered fodder.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

How many of those are home games? Getting to play Penn State can be huge, but if the majority of them are on the road, then they're still considered fodder.

No, they're really not as big a deal as you think. Yes, they're a Big Ten team. That said, they're nowhere near as wonderful and magical a program as all the Sandusky State fans would have you believe.

They have plenty of money to travel for non-conference games, but they make more money by bringing in cupcakes to take a beating in Crappy Valley. It's a big deal for these bottom feeder schools to play them because they get two games against a high-quality opponent that is often going to pay for their travel and accommodations for making the trip, and sometimes there's a monetary incentive to play them, too.