OT: NBA Discussion Thread: Part IV

[FireGerardGallant]

Lol

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

The Nets would have to give up their best player to open two MAX slots. As well as RHJ. Nets fans might want to slow down until the team at least makes an Eastern Conference championship game.

*edited to point out I know you've made 'em in your history.

@Cassano's not a Nets fan.

(Yet).

And no one is claiming they're the Warriors. Nor do I necessarily think they'll open up a second max slot this offseason (though for the record I have no problem dealing RHJ). Frankly, I'm not sure I want them to. Whatever they do, it would be a crime to screw up the culture they've built.

Fortunately, with Marks in charge, I feel very confident in their direction.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

 

[darko]

Kyrie has knees held together by tape. I don't really want to sign him.

That's what I was saying 12 months ago. He's a risky guy committing max $ to.

 

[Cassano]

That's what I was saying 12 months ago. He's a risky guy committing max $ to.

I would rather trade for Holliday in the summer if we sign KD and draft Zion... Then I think the title is ours to lose.

 

[JCProdigy]

That's what I was saying 12 months ago. He's a risky guy committing max $ to.

While I get what you and @Cassano are saying in Kyrie but then doesn't the same line of thinking have to hold for Porzingis? Hell, even more so since he hasn't even returned to show he's healthy from his knee injury?

Kyrie broke his knee cap, then had irritation from the wire that was put in. They removed the band (not needed after the knee healed) and the screws (also not needed) which led to the Dr. finding a bacterial infection which was taken care of. He'll have to deal with arthritis and some pain management going forward but from what I've read, he's in the same risk category as any other player with a previous knee injury (Including the Unicorn).

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

@Cassano's not a Nets fan.

(Yet).

And no one is claiming they're the Warriors. Nor do I necessarily think they'll open up a second max slot this offseason (though for the record I have no problem dealing RHJ). Frankly, I'm not sure I want them to. Whatever they do, it would be a crime to screw up the culture they've built.

Fortunately, with Marks in charge, I feel very confident in their direction.

We will be the Warriors and Delo will be the greatest basketball player OAT.

 

[cgf]

Yeah, just look at the Heat after the decision. I'm almost certain Kyrie is signing with the Knicks, then it's a question of who the other big will be. KD's name keeps coming up there has to be some truth there, but it could also be AD or maybe we don't get the other big until 2020-21

I still sometimes wonder how differently things would've gone had Walsh been healthy during that meeting with LeBron & Wade, maybe a healthy Don-father doesn't botch that meeting so horribly that Riley is able to swoop in.

Oh well, at least now we can hope that the Nets make enough noise to actually take some of the media attention off of us for a few years...so that we can rebuild in peace. Use that capspace to gain assets, and then roll big expiring contracts into even more assets with which to trade up for the Luka's of future drafts...i.e. see if the Clippers will give up their 2021 or 2022 FRP to move Gallo this summer, then flip Gallo's 2020 expiring to boston for Hayward + the Memphis pick + the Kings/Clippers pick; with that pick in hand, offer the Grizzlies to eat Parsons' contract if they'll give up JJJ to get their pick back; then call Jordan up and offer Parsons' 2020 expiring + NCST's own DSJ for Batum + Bridges + a top 5 protected FRP. With some of those extra picks trade up for the FOs preferred PG in 2020, when there should be 2/3 kids better than Garland or Morant. Maybe then by 2021/2022, there would be a young core worth recruiting Giannis/Luka to join.

 

[cgf]

You hate the Knicks, we get it.

NBA nothing more dysfunctional than the 76ers for many years and the Nets under Prokhorov until recent couple years. Nets are Exhibit A for how things can get completely turned around even with prior bad management

One 50-win season since the towers fell, is a feat in a class of its own. The Nets have managed to go from EC champs, to building a powerhouse for Boston, to getting their shit together in that time...Philly went through the whole f***ing Process since the AI heyday and the wasted Iggy & Andre years, in that time.

I still can't quit this team, but our record of failure since that 2000/2001 season has been unmatched in the NBA.

Knicks have not been "dysfunctional" under Perry.

Your franchise player wanting out & getting used to dump salary, isn't dysfunctional? I think Perry has done well until this all blew up, but this whole KP situation was a prime example of dysfunction. Teams tank for years to draft a KP.

 

[East Coast Bias]

I still sometimes wonder how differently things would've gone had Walsh been healthy during that meeting with LeBron & Wade, maybe a healthy Don-father doesn't botch that meeting so horribly that Riley is able to swoop in.

Oh well, at least now we can hope that the Nets make enough noise to actually take some of the media attention off of us for a few years...so that we can rebuild in peace. Use that capspace to gain assets, and then roll big expiring contracts into even more assets with which to trade up for the Luka's of future drafts...i.e. see if the Clippers will give up their 2021 or 2022 FRP to move Gallo this summer, then flip Gallo's 2020 expiring to boston for Hayward + the Memphis pick + the Kings/Clippers pick; with that pick in hand, offer the Grizzlies to eat Parsons' contract if they'll give up JJJ to get their pick back; then call Jordan up and offer Parsons' 2020 expiring + NCST's own DSJ for Batum + Bridges + a top 5 protected FRP. With some of those extra picks trade up for the FOs preferred PG in 2020, when there should be 2/3 kids better than Garland or Morant. Maybe then by 2021/2022, there would be a young core worth recruiting Giannis/Luka to join.

I have bad news for you.....

They’re gonna use all that cap space this summer on FAs. One way or another.

 

[BroadwayBlues]

One 50-win season since the towers fell, is a feat in a class of its own. The Nets have managed to go from EC champs, to building a powerhouse for Boston, to getting their **** together in that time...Philly went through the whole ****ing Process since the AI heyday and the wasted Iggy & Andre years, in that time.

I still can't quit this team, but our record of failure since that 2000/2001 season has been unmatched in the NBA.


Your franchise player wanting out & getting used to dump salary, isn't dysfunctional? I think Perry has done well until this all blew up, but this whole KP situation was a prime example of dysfunction. Teams tank for years to draft a KP.

So it can't be that Porzingins has strange ways and a brother who is also his agent, giving him poor advice?

Instead, it's the Knicks fault. lol

You and many fans need to realize Porzingis, is not a proven player yet. In fact, he's an injury waiting to happen. Don't know too many thin/lanky 7'3" bigs who have long careers. That kid Bol Bol is already hurt.

Why isn't he back yet? That injury is a year recovery. The Mavs say he's sitting out the rest of the season.
Another major injury, he becomes a journeyman.

 

[cgf]

I have bad news for you.....

They’re gonna use all that cap space this summer on FAs. One way or another.

oh I know, but let me dream!!!

So it can't be that Porzingins has strange ways and a brother who is also his agent, giving him poor advice?

Instead, it's the Knicks fault. lol

Do you think KP is the only star athlete in pro sports with strange ways & a family member failing him as his agent? Sure I wish he had been Tim Duncan instead, but as a team it is on you to make it work with elite talents...especially with a track record like ours. Hell KP & Janis are easy going compared to many star footballers.

 

[BroadwayBlues]

oh I know, but let me dream!!!


Do you think KP is the only star athlete in pro sports with strange ways & a family member failing him as his agent? Sure I wish he had been Tim Duncan instead, but as a team it is on you to make it work with elite talents...especially with a track record like ours. Hell KP & Janis are easy going compared to many star footballers.

He wasn't signing long term with the Knicks though. And early word, he won't with the Mavs either.

Another possibility is that, maybe Perry don't think he's worth a max. And wasn't willing to give it. Which you have to be honest, he's not.

I liked his upside but I don't think he was going to be a lead dog. More of a robin.

 

[Ghost of jas]

I have bad news for you.....

They’re gonna use all that cap space this summer on FAs. One way or another.

Perry has said the contrary.

 

[Ghost of jas]

He wasn't signing long term with the Knicks though. And early word, he won't with the Mavs either.

Another possibility is that, maybe Perry don't think he's worth a max. And wasn't willing to give it. Which you have to be honest, he's not.

I liked his upside but I don't think he was going to be a lead dog. More of a robin.

Plus, the long term prognosis for players coming off an ACL injury is not good. Now throw in a 7’3” player...foot injuries alone limit the careers of most big men. I fully understand the trepidation about investing long-term in Porzingis.

 

[cgf]

He wasn't signing long term with the Knicks though. And early word, he won't with the Mavs either.

Another possibility is that, maybe Perry don't think he's worth a max. And wasn't willing to give it. Which you have to be honest, he's not.

I liked his upside but I don't think he was going to be a lead dog. More of a robin.

Right, but that was the FO's failure to instill trust in him (to me). I know in NA sports we're used to players with a contract being stuck having to play for the team they're signed with, but I'm used to soccer. That's the sport where my friends back home are scouting / coaching -in or doing-PR-for, and soccer players can change clubs basically whenever they want...contracts are shorter & often come with set buyout sums that other teams just have to pay to get the player. So you don't need to just convince a talent to join your club/academy, you need to convince them to stay & to stick around.

The NBA isn't anywhere near world football, in scale or in player empowerment, but it is the NA sport that is closest to football and this direction it is going in will not change until we learn how to grow hyper co-ordinated 7-footers by the hundreds. KP may be the first rookie scale guy to take control of his future like this, but he sure as shit won't be the last. Hell if KP's body really is so frail, or he bails on Dallas, then I won't be shocked if Luka isn't forcing his way to a better team in 2 years...and you just know that Zion's team watched this situation play out very closely.


As for KP's upside, agree to disagree. I think the dude has the potential to win DPOY while carrying your offense...even if having a 2nd guy of a similar caliber (like Luka), will be a huge boon to his efficiency. Once he finishes growing into his freakish body, I see a suped-up version of Sheed with less crazy...and IMO Sheed was one of the most talented players in the league in his day. A league which was less favorable to his skillset than today's NBA...

If KP & Luka stay in Dallas and that Mavs medical staff can keep their bodies from failing them; that would be my #1 young duo in the league...even over Ben & Joel.

 

[Cassano]

KP goes from franchise player to potential journeyman player lol.

Not sure if we will draft another player in the next decade as good as him. (Especially if we drop down to 5th)

 

[cgf]

Perry has said the contrary.

I know Perry's new and I'm trying to let him establish his own trustability, separate from the messes of our past.

...but I've heard pretty words from Steve Mills containing FOs before...

 

[Cassano]

Funny thing is, we could've had Luka if we tanked properly last season and traded Kanter, Lee, KOQ, etc. Somehow people will say that isn't on Mills/Perry.

KP wouldn't have put in a trade request with Luka probably putting us in a playoff spot.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

Knicks are officially in last place in the league based off winning percentage.

 

[Ghost of jas]

So, KP is likely to remain out for the year. Is that really a player you want to invest long term in going forward? Derrrck Rose’s career hasn’t even been close to the same since his injury. KP may have franchise player talent, but, I fear there would have been too much risk to give him a max deal.

 

[GordonGecko]

Your franchise player wanting out & getting used to dump salary, isn't dysfunctional? I think Perry has done well until this all blew up, but this whole KP situation was a prime example of dysfunction. Teams tank for years to draft a KP.

KP was not on board with the process, and the process is necessary, pretty much end of story.

 

[cgf]

Funny thing is, we could've had Luka if we tanked properly last season and traded Kanter, Lee, KOQ, etc. Somehow people will say that isn't on Mills/Perry.

KP wouldn't have put in a trade request with Luka probably putting us in a playoff spot.

Eh, you never know with a lottery involved...especially since Dallas was apparently ready to give up a lot more if they had to outbid anyone for Luka. So trading up for him likely wouldn't have been a feasible option if we didn't get the lotto love to land him with our own pick.

So I can't fault perry too much for not getting Luka. Not moving Lee for a SRP & expiring last TDL? That's fair play, but not missing out on Luka.

 

[cgf]

So, KP is likely to remain out for the year. Is that really a player you want to invest long term in going forward? Derrrck Rose’s career hasn’t even been close to the same since his injury. KP may have franchise player talent, but, I fear there would have been too much risk to give him a max deal.

That reservation I get, and it's the one explanation that does make some sense to me. But when we're talking about the most talented Knick drafted in my nearly 30 years on this planet, that seems like a risk worth taking given that his medicals weren't too terrifying to scare Dallas or San Antonio off

KP was not on board with the process, and the process is necessary, pretty much end of story.

OT: - NBA Discussion Thread: Part IV

 

[Ghost of jas]

That reservation I get, and it's the one explanation that does make some sense to me. But when we're talking about the most talented Knick drafted in my nearly 30 years on this planet, that seems like a risk worth taking given that his medicals weren't too terrifying to scare Dallas or San Antonio off


OT: - NBA Discussion Thread: Part IV

You know how this works...he stays healthy in Dallas, but, if the Knicks sign him long term, he breaks down. This is how it is for the Knicks.