Nazem Kadri Discussion - MOD WARNING IN THE OP

[topched]

They played different roles and would drop the gloves to settle problems. Yes it was great, there was also no instigator fighting penalty back then, the game has changed and most players have changed with it, whether we like it or not.

I totally agree with you, some of the stuff that was ok back then is totally unacceptable now, the game has progressed.

But chirping a guy from the bench and then trying to settle the score cleanly on the ice without punching each other in the face... That should absolutely be encouraged. A throat slashing gesture in the heat of the moment is not something that we should be upset about. Sure he could have done without the gesture, but who cares. In a season where he could easily just take it and move on because the games don't matter, Kadri is playing hard.

I'd rather everyone get pissed off, chirp from the bench and then try to get retribution within the rules of the game than this big-hit followed by fake fight nonsense that goes on.

 

[Durrr]

They played different roles and would drop the gloves to settle problems. Yes it was great, there was also no instigator fighting penalty back then, the game has changed and most players have changed with it, whether we like it or not.

It's not about the roles, its about the passion when playing the game. You are right, the game has changed from what was clearly over the line years ago, but the reaction I'm seeing in this thread is almost embarrassing.

 

[Deez Nuts]

You said "if Babs worked with Holland". That implies he works with Kadri, and not Holland. And now you're calling me ignorant because I don't get it?

Resorting to personal insults usually indicates that one is out of arguments. It's ironic that you're heaping abuse on Kadri for losing his cool when you can't even keep your's on an internet board.

Holland a healthy scratch - you earn your chances in this league, period.

As far as being a role model goes - you don't know what I think on that subject but starting the discussion by calling him a clown shows that you're not interested in discussion, you'd rather toss insults around at me, Kadri or whoever else. I'm rather not play that game, thanks for the invite.

Wow, playing the personal insult card? I don't see any personal attacks other than calling you ignorant. You know damn well Babs has made it a mission to focus on Kadri's development this year. It has been all over the media and he has been pumping his tires all season long. Kadri was also a high draft pick while Holland was a depth acquisition for a minor cost only due to injury issues at the C position. You know exactly the difference between the long term plans between the two players and don't pretend you don't think Kadri has had special treatment this season.
Almost 3/4 into the season, Holland and Kadri ppg totals are close, and considering the opportunity Kadri has been given I am surprised there is not a wider gap. My thinking is that if Babs took Holland under his wing like he has done for Kadri, he would produce around the same or possibly more than Kadri. This is also at half the price and without the headaches and babysitting.
If you think a player with a history of conflict with coaches, a history of head hunting leading to suspensions, a history of off ice issues and someone generally considered a me first player who throws temper tantrums and seeks revenge over winning and a team game is a good example for the up and coming talent, I am at a loss.

 

[Menzinger]

Does anyone even doubt for a second that verbal threats like "you're dead" aren't made on a nightly basis? When I was a 13 year old a hell of a lot worse was said during my house league games...

This is just unique because of the hand gesture.

In other news Bob Mackenzie, the man who broke the Dion trade yesterday said on the radio this morning that "Kadri isn't on the trade block but isnt untouchable", which is pretty much what is to be expected based on his play. Good player, worth keeping (and likely will be) but will be moved if the offer is too good to pass up.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

Agreed, remember Claude Lemieux?

Exactly. A bit of crazy is good some times. But then there is the question, do we need what Kadri brings and at that price or will Komarov and perhaps Leipsic bring a more controlled version of the pest for a lower price?

The league has changed and stuff that was seen as ok 10-20 years ago are no longer tolerated.

And if Kadri can not even control him self, how can he then be a leader for others?

Lots of questions and I am afraid for Kadri´s sake he answered some of them after that hit.

 

[SenorDingDong]

Who cares?

Seriously, who cares?

I've seen worst gestures made driving in traffic.

If you are actually up in a fuss about this, please re-evaluate your life.

 

[RLF]

I totally agree with you, some of the stuff that was ok back then is totally unacceptable now, the game has progressed.

But chirping a guy from the bench and then trying to settle the score cleanly on the ice without punching each other in the face... That should absolutely be encouraged. A throat slashing gesture in the heat of the moment is not something that we should be upset about. Sure he could have done without the gesture, but who cares. In a season where he could easily just take it and move on because the games don't matter, Kadri is playing hard.

I'd rather everyone get pissed off, chirp from the bench and then try to get retribution within the rules of the game than this big-hit followed by fake fight nonsense that goes on.

I want passion as well, but that doesn't mean throwing a tantrum most times you feel wronged. Naz unfortunately let`s the other team get to him too much. He was so focused on getting back at Giordano that he wasn`t concentrating on the game and creating, which is his role. So to me, role does matter. It isn`t even the throat slash gesture or chirping, it is the `tantrum` I don't like. Tucker, if you remember was considered a `suck` by most non-Leafs fans. We loved him, but most others thought he was an idiot.

 

[Snow Dog]

This is the player I want to see mentoring the kids coming up.

 

[Liferleafer]

It was very immature.

Well...the mentor....the captain....the Dion wasn't there to babysit him....

 

[RLF]

It's not about the roles, its about the passion when playing the game. You are right, the game has changed from what was clearly over the line years ago, but the reaction I'm seeing in this thread is almost embarrassing.

See I disagree there. We couldn`t have Mats or Dougie going off and trying for retribution every time they didn`t like a hit. That is for guys like Tucker, or in our case Clune. I am not saying Naz is Mats or Dougie, but his role is 1st line C and to produce. He was more concentrated on retribution than production is what I don`t like.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

Who cares?

Seriously, who cares?

I've seen worst gestures made driving in traffic.

If you are actually up in a fuss about this, please re-evaluate your life.

And you dont see the difference?

And we do care about everything Leafs related so why would Kadris childish reaction to a legal hit and followed up by selfish play to settle a personal grief be any different to everything else we discuss?

That management had hopes Kadri would mature and become a young leader for the even younger guys coming up the coming seasons also of course effect the discussion. I mean, he is a RFA at the end of the season. And the Leafs are trying to figure out if he is worth investing in.

 

[Menzinger]

I really don't think management is going to give this any major consideration - it's not like he's doing this every single game.

 

[Dugath]

Unfortunately Hockey is a business.

They can not have a player making "death" signs for everyone to see.
What a player says that no one else can hear and what he visually does that the wold can see are two completely different things.

There are small kids who watch this stuff.. some people might say big deal. Some people might say it is a big deal.

Bottom line its is a business and you cant do that stuff.

 

[Pookie]

Unfortunately Hockey is a business.

They can not have a player making "death" signs for everyone to see.
What a player says that no one else can hear and what he visually does that the wold can see are two completely different things.

There are small kids who watch this stuff.. some people might say big deal. Some people might say it is a big deal.

Bottom line its is a business and you cant do that stuff.

This.

NBA, NFL and MLB have all suspended players for this or other gestures.

Up to the NHL here but it is clearly an issue.

 

[Guided by Veseys]

Suspend him for a game and move on. Got his bell rung and acted like a dope, big ****ing deal. Lou can yell at him and he can not do it again. People act like they haven't done something stupid and immature in their life; ever overreact driving before?

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

I was actually a bit surprised and rather impressed. Reason being is that Kadri actually cooled off very quickly after getting to the bench and making that throat-slash gesture. I was expecting him to continue to allow his emotions get the best him so I was left pleasantly surprised. I guess it's a matter of expections.

 

[ShaneFalco]

May be no big deal, but Leaf's management may be wondering if Kadri has grown up at all

 

[gabeliscious]

how is it ok to fight but not make a slashing gesture? both are not right but one is considered part of the game and fine and the other is a suspendable offense.

at best it should be a 2 min penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct.

 

[Gallagbi]

See I disagree there. We couldn`t have Mats or Dougie going off and trying for retribution every time they didn`t like a hit. That is for guys like Tucker, or in our case Clune. I am not saying Naz is Mats or Dougie, but his role is 1st line C and to produce. He was more concentrated on retribution than production is what I don`t like.

Gilmour and Sundin were very different players. It wasn't uncommon to see Gilmour do something dirty/stupid in retaliation.

 

[Myke]

He'll get one game. We can debate all day whether this should matter or not but fact is that players have been suspended before for this.

 

[Wendelstache]

Stupid gesture ...

Suspension worthy?
NO

 

[MJ65]

This.

NBA, NFL and MLB have all suspended players for this or other gestures.

Up to the NHL here but it is clearly an issue.

No it's not a big deal (are you kidding me), do you have any idea what goes on the ice with verbal abuse? (any clue) or do you just have an agenda against him?

 

[Anthrax442]

Gotta say, the thought that next year Naz will be a "vet" on this team makes me shudder. Get this child off this team ASAP!

 

[Damisoph]

Clean hit, temper tantrum. If he's suspended for the stupid throat slash gesture, so be it.

I'm starting to believe they're doing the same "pump and dump" with Naz. They like him, but do they like him enough to go $6M AAV long term?

 

[Duke Silver]

No it's not a big deal (are you kidding me), do you have any idea what goes on the ice with verbal abuse? (any clue) or do you just have an agenda against him?

You must be new here.

Hey guys, just a thought: could we not judge his entire character based on one emotion-fuelled action?

I get that he's been playing well lately and that's challenging because it's been hard to drum up criticism, but it's not like a knot in a fire hose where all the vitriol has to come out at once.

Typical Helen Lovejoy reaction from the media.