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Nationwide Arena/CBJ Finances Discussion II

BluejacketNut said:
My thoughts on what should have been done, is you make it a resort, much like say Foxwood's out in NE. You put it somewhere out off of 70, maybe in between Datyon and Columbus....put a golf course out there, amphitheater and you turn it into a resort.....not just a plain casino in a city. Now out on the west side, its going to be a trip to go gambling...not a night out on the town and stop in the casino because its by what you were planning on doing, example, Bluejackets game, concert, Clippers game, convention, etc. When it was planned to be downtown, I had figured to stop in after games and play a little....i have zero plans on traveling out to West Broadstreet to throw money away. Sure there will be people who will, but I think it wont get nearly as much traffic as it would have been if it was going to be downtown.
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Here's the real question. Are they trying to cater to the casual "I might go and gamble every once in a while" crowd or are they trying to get the serious gamblers who may lay down serious money? Do you think those people are going to care whether it was downtown or not?
 
Have you guys been to the Wheeling Island Casino and Racetrack? The island itself has no shopping around it, no other extra activities other than Godfathers strip club. If you want to golf, you drive 15 minutes up the hill to Oglebay. If you want to shop, you drive 20 minutes toward Pittsburgh and go to the Highlands shopping area. The one road on the island to the casino makes you go through a series of sketchy low income homes falling of stilts with riff-raff hanging out on the sidewalks for about 1/2 mile, with minimal lighting all the way until you get to the actual parking lot for the casino... all these negatives surrounding it and yet they consistently sell out ALL their rooms every thursday though saturday night, and there seriously isn't a room under $100 there. The tables games are always busy, the slots never stop. And they feed MAD MONEY to the state.

With a little TLC the west side casino is gonna take care of business.
 
plong123 said:
Maybe not right now. But it will become nice, for sure. It will get an arena-district-level resurgence. Plus, like I said, you'll pull off the highway and into the casino lot (which will certainly have security). Casino's aren't exactly noted for their willingness to let people leave the premises. :laugh:
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I totally agree that the area will get better and I also believe that this location was a better choice then the arena district because like you said it is right off of 270.
 
BluejacketNut said:
What will be interesting is when they find out the reality of how much the casino will actually bring in. Just over heard one of my co workers talking that they were in the area and went to check out its progress, and its pretty much in a terrible part of town....so who's going to actually go out there to go gambling? Moving it from downtown will turn out to be a terrible idea IMO (at least with the area it was moved to). You wont be getting any Columbus downtown visitors to go there. Its going to end up like the Golden Coast casino in Vegas, where its the hardest of gamblers...certainly not going to be destination for a 'night out'
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Doesn't Wexner want to turn that entire area into another Easton? At least that's what I've heard.
 
Moving from the Arena District was dumb, until you consider that perhaps the power brokers in that development realize that eventually, other casinos will be permitted...and then they can own their own casino or get a bigger share of someone else's income from an AD casino than the penn national situation.

Regarding the area, I grew up around there and really don't live particularly far away (Galloway). IMO, it's not bad so much as it is completely vacant. It's weird, almost like a ghost town. Closed shops, stores, a more or less empty mall that is just surreal to walk through while remembering how it was when I was a teenager hanging out there 50 hours a week... I went to the mall BMV not so long ago and just walked around. I did not feel unsafe...just alone. There was an article last year describing the oak manor/shannon way/lincoln park apartment complex as the most vacant neighborhood in america at something like 30% occupancy.

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2009/05/05/VACANTHOODS.ART_ART_05-05-09_A1_RMDOR6K.html

I grew up in this apartment complex and 30 years ago, it was a thriving community and something other developers wanted to mimic. When people started leaving when houses became easier to obtain, the ownership at the time changed from being discerning to taking anyone that they could to avoid losing money. As time went on, it got pretty bad in there. At some point a few years ago, new ownership took over and started clearing the place out, either with the idea of revitalizing it, or perhaps getting it vacant enough to raze and sell. There's a long standing rumor that a 'weston' development was once or still planned for that area and that the land would be bought by Wexner. Not sure how much legs that has, but it does seem like there's money to be made in the area. the local businesses have been reinvesting in the area as well as spearheading an effort to revitalize the w. broad street corridor, particularly the Hadocy folks. Given the state of the area, more vacant than bad, I'd have to think this area is primed for restoration. Like someone else said, anyone who thinks it can't be done doesn't remember what the arena district looked like, or easton, campus or the short north. The fact that it's so vacant only increases it's chances, IMO. The stores that left the area are a result of a domino effect and greener pastures in Grove City or Hilliard, not particularly because they failed.
 
1857 Howitzer said:
I totally agree that the area will get better and I also believe that this location was a better choice then the arena district because like you said it is right off of 270.
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I don't know if this has been said, but I like the Broad street location much better for numerous reasons. BTW, this is coming from someone who frequents Vegas and enjoys going to local casinos occassionally. It isn't right downtown (We aren't atlantic city, and it should not be in the arena district), and if we are lucky, it will spur business growth in that area and cleanup the epic uber-sh!th0le that is West Broad street. Where the crap will go, I am not sure....I vote Michigan.
 
The people that post on the dispatch website are so ignorant! It is so frustrating. I couldn't help it, I had to say something. I wish they were too stupid to use a computer. Grrrrr :rant:
 
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FANonymous said:
Here's the real question. Are they trying to cater to the casual "I might go and gamble every once in a while" crowd or are they trying to get the serious gamblers who may lay down serious money? Do you think those people are going to care whether it was downtown or not?
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Well in this economy, if they're looking for the serious money gamblers, they may not find a ton of those right now. What changes the game, is all the sudden now theyre looking at the revenue to buy and operate an arena, ontop of everything else they hoped to pay with gambling. Hopefully it is right off of 270 and they'll be able to clean up the area, im just skeptical of it considering the state of the economy
 
robo1 said:
The people that post on the dispatch website are so ignorant! It is so frustrating. I couldn't help it, I had to say something. I wish they were too stupid to use a computer. Grrrrr :rant:
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dispatch.com is like a holding pen for those too stupid to know there are other sources of information.
 
The excitement at the meeting wasn't that it passed unanimously with one abstention, but the fact that GOP candidate for council Matt Ferris stood up and called the council "spineless crooks." Probably an attention grab, he left on his own accord after the council President asked officers to escort him out.
 
Should be required reading for any of the opportunistic politicians (i.e. Ferris) before they start spouting off. If they can provide an intelligent counter-point, I'd love to hear it.
 
Nanabijou said:
Should be required reading for any of the opportunistic politicians (i.e. Ferris) before they start spouting off. If they can provide an intelligent counter-point, I'd love to hear it.
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It is still tax money that could be spent elsewhere (roads, services, police, fire, politician salaries, etc.).

I've come down on the pro side, certainly (despite what will be my non-ending grumblings about our hypocritical city and business leaders).

But the core issue for many that oppose it remains - it's still tax money going to a purpose some feel isn't warranted either in their general philosophy or because the last record of voters on the issue was opposed to putting tax revenues into the arena.

Now granted that was more than a decade ago and the tax revenues in question right now aren't coming directly out of anyone's pockets but the casino's as I understand it. Assuming that revenue can cover the costs and the city or county don't have to raid their own coffers to pay the bills, then the public isn't on the hook as much as some will imply.

But I suspect that's the counter-argument you're going to hear.
 
The main thing it comes down to is how successful will the casino's be. Cleveland isnt really a hot bed for disposable income, nor is Columbus, Cincinnati, or anywhere right now. The Columbus debate is about revitalizing the west side area, but again, right now is not a prosperous times to be adding another Easton/Arena District type development. Of course people are going to gamble, but we'll see how much it ends up being if this economy doesnt stabilize soon.
 
KallioWeHardlyKnewYe said:
It is still tax money that could be spent elsewhere (roads, services, police, fire, politician salaries, etc.).

I've come down on the pro side, certainly (despite what will be my non-ending grumblings about our hypocritical city and business leaders).

But the core issue for many that oppose it remains - it's still tax money going to a purpose some feel isn't warranted either in their general philosophy or because the last record of voters on the issue was opposed to putting tax revenues into the arena.

Now granted that was more than a decade ago and the tax revenues in question right now aren't coming directly out of anyone's pockets but the casino's as I understand it. Assuming that revenue can cover the costs and the city or county don't have to raid their own coffers to pay the bills, then the public isn't on the hook as much as some will imply.

But I suspect that's the counter-argument you're going to hear.
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To which my counterpoint is that the tax money it's coming from is from a casino which was equally opposed in Franklin County, and had been repeatedly equally opposed several times over the last few decades. It appeals to me as a form of poetic justice, really.
 
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