Nationwide Arena/CBJ Finances Discussion II

[pete goegan]

http://www.dispatch.com/content/sto...ino-tax-money-may-help-keep-jackets-here.html



Here's what I'd like to know.

The issue has been the lease since the team's dicey financial situation hit the public consciousness a couple years ago. The lease is primarily with Nationwide (90% owners of the arena), yet the solutions put forth seem to revolve around public financing. So...

Help me understand the revenue generated by the lease and by the real estate development that has taken place in the Arena District. I would think Nationwide would have a substantial interest in maintaining the CBJ as primary tenant in the centerpiece of its development, but that hasn't materialized (yea, I know they've let the team forego payments, etc.). Why not? Maybe Nationwide does not (somehow) stand to lose a significant amount of money should the team move. Maybe Nationwide is holding out that public money will save it from having to renegotiate the lease.

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/sports/2011/08/07/arace-redo.html



That's pretty nebulous.

This sounds like a game of chicken between public officials and Nationwide as to who's going to cave first to commit money to aid the CBJ.

That's the same problem I have, DSL. Yes, the city and all of those who support what the CBJ has meant to it stand to lose greatly, but doesn't Nationwide stand to lose even more? Surely the money they get from the burdensome lease is a drop in the bucket compared to what they potentially could lose in revenue and prestige if the Arena sits empty in the District? I'm sure that the development of condos and offices in the area has been profitable; but are they, and all the restaurants and bars that have cropped up in the area, to a point of self-sufficiency without the traffic and activity generated by forty (+?) nights of hockey over six months? It's the Arena and the CBJ that have made that the thriving development that has put big bucks in Nationwide's corporate pockets, and it's Nationwide that should make the greatest concessions to keep the Jackets healthy and in Columbus. I have no problem with some casino dollars flowing the Jackets way (hell, I've always voted for the tax initiatives, too!), but not until Nationwide redoes the lease to relieve the pressure on the team and give it the revenue flow that every other team in the league enjoys. If the city provides the total solution, Nationwide will happily sit back and continue to reap the blessings of a one-sided lease that benefits them to the exclusion of all others. Let the landlord make the first, and most significant, contribution to solving the problems, then allow the city to graciously chime in to help resolve the situation. Ultimately, all will benefit.

 

[BluejacketNut]

Nationwide certainly isnt going to stick their neck out and suggest they'll cut more rent if there's even a hint of talk about casino money or public money. The city/state should be looking at this and saying 'there's zero chance in getting public/casino money', which should force Nationwide to make it work.

Hopefully the market blow up right now is temporary, because there's looking like shades of 08 out there, and regardless of our new shinny toys for the Jackets, disposable income may again be on the decline again

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Nationwide certainly isnt going to stick their neck out and suggest they'll cut more rent if there's even a hint of talk about casino money or public money. The city/state should be looking at this and saying 'there's zero chance in getting public/casino money', which should force Nationwide to make it work.

Like I said, game of chicken.

Hopefully the market blow up right now is temporary, because there's looking like shades of 08 out there, and regardless of our new shinny toys for the Jackets, disposable income may again be on the decline again

Well if this veers too political I'll delete it, but I think the latest muss WRT the markets is more a reflection of some realities of what economic recovery there has been, which is that folks' disposable income never really rebounded. This could still affect ticket purchases, however, in that folks holding out may join those who've already opted out.

 

[blahblah]

It's all political. Neither side it going to want to pony up everything. The CBJ is actually caught in the middle.

The Tea Party references need to go away. This stuff came out before the Tea Party (sin tax being shot down) and that's about limited federal government. If they are trying to weigh in, you have certain sections of it going beyond their original charter. State and local governments have to balance their budgets.

Now if we look over the City of Columbus (and Franklin County) we will find a lot of money that is needlessly spent on really idiotic stuff. My uncle is awesome, but his pension that he now collecting at 55 is more then I will ever see (retired teacher). A lot more. The casino money for stuff like roads and schools is a moronic discussion from politicians. They already raided... oops.. raised our taxes recently. Thanks to all the people that panicked and voted for the tax increase because the local politicians used FUD to say it was going to impact schools, police/fire, etc. They should be removed from office. But I'll sure they will get voted in again.

Point? I would like some of my tax money to be used for something I find of real value. Sure, I get my street plowed and pot holes fixed, as well as trash picked up. But I would like something beyond essential services. I probably pay more in taxes then entire city (residential) blocks. Certainly on the federal side. Find some money somewhere, so that we don't increase taxes (find some silly project to slay). Split the difference with Nationwide and be done with it. Become partners unless you want 15+ millionaires leaving. Otherwise I might sell my house and move to Plain City or something. Try and get my money then. Oh I know they won't care, someone else will be paying the property and local taxes.

 

[blahblah]

Ultimately, all will benefit.

I understand your point. The "problem" with arena's is a national one. To ask Nationwide and the CBJ to be treated differently is to say they belong on a different competitive foothold as the rest of the country.

The question really is, do we want to be a big league city? If so, the norm is for local and/or tax dollars to help subsidize the arena. Nationwide has already quit asking for the rent in the past.

It's not the cities fault. We voted own an arena. Not me personally, but the locals did.

This is one screwed up situation. Instead of kicking the can down the road, they jokers need to get together and just solve it. The city, as well as Nationwide, have a lot to lose if the CBJ leaves. If I were the CBJ, I'd be holding moving above their heads. The Arena doesn't have another tenant.

All I know is that I, personally, wouldn't want to piss off Nationwide.

 

[BluejacketNut]

If the city were asked if they wanted to be a big league city, im afraid the answer would probably be no...at least for hockey. If we had a pro football or baseball team, then maybe it would be different, but I think the hockey support here is very low. Now if they start to win, that could swing opinion, but they didnt think that was too important over the past 10 years and have really dug a hole for themselves when it comes to public support.

 

[pete goegan]

I understand your point. The "problem" with arena's is a national one. To ask Nationwide and the CBJ to be treated differently is to say they belong on a different competitive foothold as the rest of the country.

True, but if, as is being said, the root of the Jackets financial problems is the Arena lease, then I'd think the first step toward resolution would include a renegotiation between tenant and landlord. Especially when the current lease leaves the CBJ without revenue streams available to virtually all other teams and when Nationwide is so deeply entangled with the Arena District, as a whole. Self-interest would seem to point to an accommodation being made between the team and the company, but not if a way can be found for someone else to accept the burden of fixing things. Nationwide will happily allow the city to do that so that they may continue on their merry way. I have absolutely no objection to the city's involvement, but Nationwide must be a part of fixing things, as well. And, in my opinion, they should be first at the table with offers of relief, since they have benefitted greatly from development associated with the Arena and have much, if not most, to lose should the Jackets leave.

 

[blahblah]

True, but if, as is being said, the root of the Jackets financial problems is the Arena lease, then I'd think the first step toward resolution would include a renegotiation between tenant and landlord.

The lease itself is only one part of it. You also get into naming rights, luxury boxes, etc. There is a lot of revenue that other teams get (at least to a far greater extent), that's why the original objective was for Nationwide to sell the arena to Franklin county.

You can dig in your heels if you like. Nationwide isn't going to easily bend and shoulder the entire burden of concessions. What people seem to want is for Nationwide to shoulder the responsibility of subsidizing the Jackets because they own a lot of property in the Arena district. Not a great way to handle one of the larger employers of people in central Ohio.

The main problem is who owns the arena. A smaller issue is OSU and the Schott. We decided to not fund it through a sin tax. So now it's off to the next phase. We seem to think that Nationwide is our *****. Good luck with that.

 

[blahblah]

If the city were asked if they wanted to be a big league city, im afraid the answer would probably be no...at least for hockey. If we had a pro football or baseball team, then maybe it would be different, but I think the hockey support here is very low. Now if they start to win, that could swing opinion, but they didnt think that was too important over the past 10 years and have really dug a hole for themselves when it comes to public support.

I don't know one person that wants the Jackets to go anywhere. That's how low the support is. We just don't have 12,000 people that want season tickets to a decade long loser. Yeah, I don't know dozens of my friends playing c and d league hockey. I don't know dozens of my friends that their kids are now playing hockey.

Sure if they want to kill the golden goose. Go for it.

Baseball? Please that would die a horrible death. They would never let pro football, basketball, or baseball in Columbus. There is little chance the Cavs would allow another team in Columbus.

 

[pete goegan]

You can dig in your heels if you like. Nationwide isn't going to easily bend and shoulder the entire burden of concessions. What people seem to want is for Nationwide to shoulder the responsibility of subsidizing the Jackets because they own a lot of property in the Arena district. Not a great way to handle one of the larger employers of people in central Ohio.

I presume this is not addressed to me, since I have clearly stated that Nationwide needs to participate in the solution, not assume the entire burden. I do think, though, that they should be among the leaders in seeking a solution. I also believe that they would be totally delighted to do nothing at all and have the fix come from elsewhere. I appreciate their role in the community and expect them to behave like a responsible corporate neighbor.

 

[Viqsi]

I presume this is not addressed to me, since I have clearly stated that Nationwide needs to participate in the solution, not assume the entire burden. I do think, though, that they should be among the leaders in seeking a solution. I also believe that they would be totally delighted to do nothing at all and have the fix come from elsewhere. I appreciate their role in the community and expect them to behave like a responsible corporate neighbor.

Honestly, just 'cause we haven't heard from them doesn't mean they're not participating in the process. They kind of have to.

There've been hints dropped in the past suggesting that Nationwide is in fact involved. The degree is unknown, though. I'm not sure how that translates into "it's all Nationwide's fault", but that seems to be the direction some folks are headed.

 

[blahblah]

I presume this is not addressed to me, since I have clearly stated that Nationwide needs to participate in the solution,

Your idea of first step doesn't fill me with confidence. Nationwide already took the first step when they forgave the rent (I'm assuming Nationwide isn't seeking repayment of missed rent payments, could be wrong I guess) and they seemed willing to sell the arena. If I remember correct, I think it was below the cost of construction of the arena (anyone have the total Franklin count was going to pay?). That was a workable plan with a end date on the sin tax (meaning it wasn't a perpetual tax). Not surprising it got shot down.

They've been engaged. While it's not awe inspiring, they've taken more of a lead on the financial side than the city and county. There will be a majority that doesn't want public funding of any kind, even among those that like the Jackets. They fully expect Nationwide to blink first and in a big way.

At the end of the day, no one really wants to own the Arena. Nationwide has a decent deal going on with the free naming rights and the luxury boxes, but they probably wouldn't wake up in the morning, crying, if they lost those benefits along with the Arena.

 

[Steeltown Jacket]

Take it for what you will (since it's a "friend's uncle's mother's sister's cousin twice removed" source), but my friend's cousin works for Nationwide, and he knows someone heavily involved with Nationwide/Jackets and per his source, Nationwide would step in help the franchise financially if a move of the team was imminent.

I know that doesn't help the situation now, but it shows local interest, support, and backing of the team to keep them in Columbus if the worst case scenario happens. At least one can hope?

 

[LetsGOJackets!!]

If Nationwide intends to help solve the

Take it for what you will (since it's a "friend's uncle's mother's sister's cousin twice removed" source), but my friend's cousin works for Nationwide, and he knows someone heavily involved with Nationwide/Jackets and per his source, Nationwide would step in help the franchise financially if a move of the team was imminent.

I know that doesn't help the situation now, but it shows local interest, support, and backing of the team to keep them in Columbus if the worst case scenario happens. At least one can hope?

issue of to much rent, and too little income streams, the sooner the better. If they want to convert the interest in the arena into an interest in the franchise I could see something reasonable being worked out there.

Again, lets not let the ship sail before Nationwide tries to save the day eh?

 

[GOCBJ61]

just political posturing....the Jackets will start to win this year, fill the building, and the city will cave and give the casino money to the CBJ....JUST WIN BABY!!

 

[mt-svk]

The reaction a Czech fan on the information about Columbus:

Nejen Kladno ale i Columbus bude hrát za Jardovy prachy

the translate: "Not only Kladno, but Columbus will play for Jarda`s money"

Jarda=Jaromír Jágr, who bought his native club HC Kladno. And he liked to play in casine a time ago...

 

[Cujorulesdtown9]

Pretty much what a few other's are saying, we win and pack the arena, and that will help us out a ton.

 

[pete goegan]

There is nothing about this idea that I like:

http://www.dispatch.com/content/sto...ckets-cavs-could-give-each-other-a-boost.html

 

[Roadman]

There is nothing about this idea that I like:

http://www.dispatch.com/content/sto...ckets-cavs-could-give-each-other-a-boost.html

Hasn't there already been a bit of friction between the CBJ and Gilbert? Not sure referencing "his huge bag of money" is the best way to promote any cooperation.

Not Arace's brightest effort.

 

[Sore Loser]

There is nothing about this idea that I like:

http://www.dispatch.com/content/sto...ckets-cavs-could-give-each-other-a-boost.html

Absolutely 100% definitely NO.

I'm actually offended at even the thought of it.

 

[TaketheCannoli]

That's the same problem I have, DSL. Yes, the city and all of those who support what the CBJ has meant to it stand to lose greatly, but doesn't Nationwide stand to lose even more? Surely the money they get from the burdensome lease is a drop in the bucket compared to what they potentially could lose in revenue and prestige if the Arena sits empty in the District? I'm sure that the development of condos and offices in the area has been profitable; but are they, and all the restaurants and bars that have cropped up in the area, to a point of self-sufficiency without the traffic and activity generated by forty (+?) nights of hockey over six months? It's the Arena and the CBJ that have made that the thriving development that has put big bucks in Nationwide's corporate pockets, and it's Nationwide that should make the greatest concessions to keep the Jackets healthy and in Columbus. I have no problem with some casino dollars flowing the Jackets way (hell, I've always voted for the tax initiatives, too!), but not until Nationwide redoes the lease to relieve the pressure on the team and give it the revenue flow that every other team in the league enjoys. If the city provides the total solution, Nationwide will happily sit back and continue to reap the blessings of a one-sided lease that benefits them to the exclusion of all others. Let the landlord make the first, and most significant, contribution to solving the problems, then allow the city to graciously chime in to help resolve the situation. Ultimately, all will benefit.

Here's an interesting study on the impact of the Arena District. This is not the Buser Report the Chamber sponsored study that kicked off the attempts by the CBJ to find a public solution to their arena issues. This study is about the actual district.

http://glennschool.osu.edu/faculty/greenbaum_pdf/Phase2_report.pdf

Driven by the establishment of the Columbus Blue Jackets of the National Hockey League and the construction of the Nationwide Arena, a former “brownfield” north of downtown Columbus has been converted to a destination location and economic engine for Central Ohio. The Arena District, anchored by the Nationwide Arena and
conveniently near the Greater Columbus Convention Center, is a now-thriving collection of entertainment attractions, restaurants and businesses and the nucleus of continuing economic development.

Sales generated by the businesses in the District in 2006 were estimated to be $1.6 billion, a 359% increase from 2000.

The appraised value of the average property in the District, on a per square foot basis, has increased by 267% from 1999 to 2008. This compares very favorably to the increase of 22% for the entire downtown Columbus Zip code, 43215.

Another clue to the impact of the Jackets:

http://business.highbeam.com/5168/a...tom-season-locksout-retail-during-nhl-lockout

To assist the ailing restaurants in the area, Nationwide Realty Investors reduced restaurant rents by 50 percent in the Arena District. The Arena District, a $500 million, 95-acre, mixed-use development, includes 1.5 million square feet of office, residential, retail and entertainment.

 

[redsfanhere*]

no shot of that happening and me renewing my 2 psl's ... mike stick 2 writing about stories that happens not your dumb ... ideas.. how about this owner sticking with basketball and getting it back to where it needs to be and let columbus worry about our team. write about nationwide and how they can help with this issue or how people in columbus could loose this team and their rent won't be payed.write about how the people of columbus could stop going to this arena for any events ...but quit writing about how to screw over psl holders they also have a vested interest in this team ..mike when was the last time u bought a ticket a jersey hell even a hot dog at the arena.. leave this issue to the people who wear the big boy pants theyll figure this out if not i'm willing to say goodbye if necessary but keep this in mind i will never spend another dime on anything nationwide has there name on end of story.....

 

[1857 Howitzer]

There is nothing about this idea that I like:

http://www.dispatch.com/content/sto...ckets-cavs-could-give-each-other-a-boost.html

The Dispatch is really turning into a joke.

 

[Dr. Fire]

There is nothing about this idea that I like:

http://www.dispatch.com/content/sto...ckets-cavs-could-give-each-other-a-boost.html

Hey, throw a pre-season game at Cleveland and Cinci, but no way I want any regular season games moved. There is a reason that they are called the COLUMBUS Blue Jackets.

Didn't someone suggest to JHM way back when that they call them the OHIO (name goes here) and JHM said "no ****ing way"? This was a team for his city, and it would be their team! Not that any others are not welcome. The State flag on the jerseys is good enough.

 

[Viqsi]

Hey, throw a pre-season game at Cleveland and Cinci, but no way I want any regular season games moved. There is a reason that they are called the COLUMBUS Blue Jackets.

Keep it strictly preseason and I think it's a brilliant idea that needs to be championed up and down I-71.

Regular season games? Hell ****ing no.