World Cup: National Team threads #2

[robertmac43]

England have some really great attacking talents...Jude, Foden, Saka, Grealish, Kane,

Luckily for the world Southgate's style effectively nerfs these talents with slow static play....

 

[cgf]

Luckily for the world Southgate's style effectively nerfs these talents with slow static play....

Yeah. English Jogi really is a major negative. If you guys just had someone like Flick, I'd probably see your NT very differently...despite still not rating your defense very highly.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

England's bad defense gets overstated, IMO.

Stones is a genuinely top CB. He is very very good. It would be nice if they had someone better to pair with him (hopefully that will eventually be Colwill, although I say as a Chelsea fan that it's not Colwill yet), but - I sound like a broken record on this board - Maguire has been consistently stellar for England in ways far far beyond what he is at club level.

It would be nice if Reece James could be fit and healthy, but Kyle Walker is a better right back than most countries can put in that spot. Not even getting to Trent, who I do think likely plays in midfield for England.

Shaw/Chilwell at LB is a weak spot, simply because neither of them is fit enough to get into a good playing rhythm. Left back is IMO the one position in the England squad where you can comfortably say they are worse off now than they were in 2021.

Funny enough, part of what makes Southgate a miserable manager to watch and not the manager to take this team forward is that he overcorrects based on the notion that his defense isn't particularly good. It actually is a sufficiently decent back four that he doesn't need to play as negatively as he does, especially given that his main full-back options (given that James and Chilwell are generally on the sidelines) offer more defensively than they do going forward.

The problem ain't personnel, and it's seldom the team selection. It's the tactics with the guys on the pitch.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

Was chatting with my pal yesterday about how we wish the soft speculative Mourinho to Brazil rumours had been true. You put him in charge of that NT with a starting XI that looks like this:

Vinicius - Richarlison - Raphinha
Paqueta
Douglas Luiz - Bruno G
Lodi - Marquinhos - Bremer - Militao
Allisson​

And he'd win them the f***ing Copa America with some of the most miserable football you've ever frickin seen.

 

[cgf]

England's bad defense gets overstated, IMO.

Stones is a genuinely top CB. He is very very good. It would be nice if they had someone better to pair with him (hopefully that will eventually be Colwill, although I say as a Chelsea fan that it's not Colwill yet), but - I sound like a broken record on this board - Maguire has been consistently stellar for England in ways far far beyond what he is at club level.

It would be nice if Reece James could be fit and healthy, but Kyle Walker is a better right back than most countries can put in that spot. Not even getting to Trent, who I do think likely plays in midfield for England.

Shaw/Chilwell at LB is a weak spot, simply because neither of them is fit enough to get into a good playing rhythm. Left back is IMO the one position in the England squad where you can comfortably say they are worse off now than they were in 2021.

Funny enough, part of what makes Southgate a miserable manager to watch and not the manager to take this team forward is that he overcorrects based on the notion that his defense isn't particularly good. It actually is a sufficiently decent back four that he doesn't need to play as negatively as he does, especially given that his main full-back options (given that James and Chilwell are generally on the sidelines) offer more defensively than they do going forward.

The problem ain't personnel, and it's seldom the team selection. It's the tactics with the guys on the pitch.

You're probably right that results have had more to do with the coaching than the personnel. And I fully agree that Southgate's fear of their defensive shortcomings has neutered them way more than he should've...like I said, if they just had someone like Flick, I'd rate them very differently despite still being very meh on their defense.

I'm also probably over-critical of anyone's defense unless they have France's depth because of my frustration over our current down period...and I admittedly don't watch the EPL enough to have strong feelings about English-Süle, Colwill, or whoever else Southgate has to pair with Stones.

Plus I don't rate the English keepers much at all based on what I've seen of them for their NT. Could totally be a ter Stegen thing were they're just not as good as for the NT as they are their clubs, so I could be under-rating them.

But from where I sit, looks like they have mediocre keepers, FBs who are either constantly injured or defensively mediocre, and mediocre CBs around Stones...and I'm not sure if Stones is good enough to anchor an elite unit or if he needs to be the 2nd fiddle like a better Rüdiger.

And Southgate just exacerbates those issues with his refusal to accept that their strength is further up the pitch.

 

[luiginb]

It also doesn't help Stones appears to be playing everything at City except center back haha

 

[cgf]

It also doesn't help Stones appears to be playing everything at City except center back haha

Eh, that wouldn't bother me if when I watched City I felt like he was the one anchoring their defense from his pseudo-6 spot.

But they have a number of guys who...based on my viewings of them in Europe & previous seasons when I did sometimes watch the EPL...seem around Stones' level. Which is why I'm unsure if Stones is good enough to be the clearcut best defender of an elite unit, or if he needs to be just one cog in elite machine.

Though again, having a meh defense wouldn't be a crippling problem if the coach didn't turn it into one by highlighting it.

 

[cgf]

Speaking of Pep's new formation

Füllkrug
Sane* - Wirtz - Musiala
Can - Gundogan
Kimmich/Henrichs - Schlotterbeck - Hummels/Tah/Rüdiger - Thiaw
ter Stegen
​

could pretty easily turn into:

Füllkrug
Sane* - Wirtz - Musiala
Kimmich/Henrichs - Can - Gundogan/Kroos
Schlotterbeck - Hummels/Tah/Rüdiger - Thiaw
ter Stegen

or

Füllkrug
Sane* - Gundogan/Kroos - Wirtz - Musiala
Kimmich/Henrichs - Can
Schlotterbeck - Hummels/Tah/Rüdiger - Thiaw
ter Stegen


*Havertz / Brandt / Führich / Hofmann / Gnabry / Müller / Dinkçi​

 

[Power Man]

Is it too late for Mbappe to play for Algeria?

 

[cgf]

Watching the way Pep is using Stones made me wonder again if it might be time for Hummels to return to the 6. I know he likes playing deeper because of the time it affords him and the better sightlines, but Mats was never the fastest even before he got old. Maybe moving to the 6 and having guys behind him could allow him to be more aggressive at breaking things up again.

Füllkrug - Havertz*
Sane - Wirtz - Musiala
Can - Hummels
Thiaw/Nico - Rüdiger - Kimmich
ter Stegen

*Gundogan / Goretzka / Brandt / Hofmann / Führich / Adeyemi / Gnabry​

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Is it too late for Mbappe to play for Algeria?

Didn't think we'd see the day and I was of the opinion that Morocco should just give up at this point.

Massive piece. Especially since Ziyech isn't getting any younger and is constantly running into injury issues, including at the last AFCON. I wonder what led to Diaz finally choosing Morocco. Spain seemed to have reignited their interest in him because of his season at Madrid. He'll be an uncontested piece for Morocco which Spain obviously can't guarantee, I guess.

 

[Power Man]

Didn't think we'd see the day and I was of the opinion that Morocco should just give up at this point.

Massive piece. Especially since Ziyech isn't getting any younger and is constantly running into injury issues, including at the last AFCON. I wonder what led to Diaz finally choosing Morocco. Spain seemed to have reignited their interest in him because of his season at Madrid. He'll be an uncontested piece for Morocco which Spain obviously can't guarantee, I guess.

More playing time with Morocco for sure

 

[Spring in Fialta]

More playing time with Morocco for sure

Yup. Spain was obviously his first choice. I'm glad we can benefit here though. Good to see that he didn't get a couple of caps by Spain strictly to add him to the talent pool and be stuck as like a 5th or 6th choice at their position. Hate when that happens to players.

 

[Power Man]

Yup. Spain was obviously his first choice. I'm glad we can benefit here though. Good to see that he didn't get a couple of caps by Spain strictly to add him to the talent pool and be stuck as like a 5th or 6th choice at their position. Hate when that happens to players.

Agreed

Brahim wasn't great in that 10 role, Pioli moving him to the RW spot at the the end of last season completely transformed him

I'm glad Madrid got him back

 

[cgf]

Christoph Freund has confirmed that Nagelsmann is nominating Pavlovic.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Watching the way Pep is using Stones made me wonder again if it might be time for Hummels to return to the 6. I know he likes playing deeper because of the time it affords him and the better sightlines, but Mats was never the fastest even before he got old. Maybe moving to the 6 and having guys behind him could allow him to be more aggressive at breaking things up again.

Füllkrug - Havertz*
Sane - Wirtz - Musiala
Can - Hummels
Thiaw/Nico - Rüdiger - Kimmich
ter Stegen

*Gundogan / Goretzka / Brandt / Hofmann / Führich / Adeyemi / Gnabry​

Andrich? Netz?

 

[cgf]

Andrich? Netz?

Can't play them together, but Andrich can step in for Can. Emre was just so good last season and has been at a similar level to Andrich this year, so I favor the higher ceiling with Can. That was more of a thought experiment anyways, trying to picture Hummels in the Stones role as best we could recreate what Pep's doing.

Realistically we're going to play a back 4, with the big questions being whether we will use 2 FBs + 2 CB or just 1 FB + 3 CBs, and whether we'll use a defensive holder at the 6. I'm rooting for Kimmich & Henrichs to start at the FB spots, with a Can / Andrich / Khedira at the 6, but we'll see.


Netz is still learning to defend at the senior level so should stick with the U21s...who could be very good this cycle; especially if Adeyemi joins Mouki, Gruda & Beier in the attack. He's a very smart kid and could be a starting caliber LWB for us for a long time, but like Martel & Morgalla he's not there yet.

 

[Power Man]

The first person that came to mind when I read Pavlovic was one of many scrubs Lebron dragged to the 2007 Finals

 

[cgf]

The first person that came to mind when I read Pavlovic was one of many scrubs Lebron dragged to the 2007 Finals

Sasha? Nah, talking about Bayern's 19yo Aleksandar. Serbia's FA was trying to lock him down after a couple games for our U20 team, but it looks like Nagelsmann will give him a look with our senior team.

Wouldn't be a bad call for him, unlike the Samardzic / Wanner / Dardai further forward, the competition is a lot thinner at the 6...and Aleks would have the inside track over Martel with him already playing his club football next to the Bayern contingent & getting to the senior team first.

 

[Power Man]

Sasha? Nah, talking about Bayern's 19yo Aleksandar. Serbia's FA was trying to lock him down after a couple games for our U20 team, but it looks like Nagelsmann will give him a look with our senior team.

Wouldn't be a bad call for him, unlike the Samardzic / Wanner / Dardai further forward, the competition is a lot thinner at the 6...and Aleks would have the inside track over Martel with him already playing his club football next to the Bayern contingent & getting to the senior team first.

That's right Sasha lol

 

[cgf]

That's right Sasha lol

The NBA was the first NA sport I got into and because Patrick Ewing's scowl reminded me so much of Oliver Kahn's scowl, I became a knicks fan, so unfortunately I remember that era all too well

Thank god those 20 years of garbage are finally over lol

 

[HajdukSplit]

Croatia, Tunisia, Egypt and New Zealand were set to play in something called the "W Cup" in Dubai yet the tournament organizers cancelled the tournament just today, only a 1.5 weeks before the international break Luckily all four federations agreed to keep the fixtures but move the 'tournament' to Cairo. Doubt they get the prize money now though lol

 

[Power Man]

The NBA was the first NA sport I got into and because Patrick Ewing's scowl reminded me so much of Oliver Kahn's scowl, I became a knicks fan, so unfortunately I remember that era all too well

Thank god those 20 years of garbage are finally over lol

lol they did have similar scowls

Prime Ewing's 2nd best teammate was a grocery bagger
An actual grocery bagger

That was hard to watch lol

 

[luiginb]

The NBA was the first NA sport I got into

Same here, Stockton and Malone are to blame. Haven't watched it since that second final loss haha

 

[cgf]

lol they did have similar scowls

Prime Ewing's 2nd best teammate was a grocery bagger
An actual grocery bagger

That was hard to watch lol

Hush. Starks was a legend. All-defensive team and for a long time held the Knicks single record for 3s...but yeah, the basketball back then was a lot uglier than it is today


Kahn, Roy, and Ewing were each other's spirit animals: