World Cup: National Team threads #2

[Spring in Fialta]

Erh, because those guys were born in France, grew up in France and learnt their football in France? Why wouldn't they play for France?
Now if you want to talk about guys like Trezeguet or Higuain, then yes, we can have this discussion. Trez finished his teenage years in France but learnt a lot in Argentina. Higuain had zero link with France except being born here and it would have been weird to see him play for France (he was called up by Domenech). Would have been like Laporte, only even worse.
Olise playing for France is weird to me. Musiala is a bit like Trezeguet.

So you think players should strictly be tied to where they were born/trained? That's insane to me.

 

[Evilo]

So you think players should strictly be tied to where they were born/trained? That's insane to me.

No I think it's quite incredible to think someone who was born raised and who learnt his football in a country doesn't have ties to play with that NT and would be opportunistic.
Quite something.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

No I think it's quite incredible to think someone who was born raised and who learnt his football in a country doesn't have ties to play with that NT and would be opportunistic.
Quite something.

Incredible that you think that the children or immigrants or second-generations don't have affinity for their country of origin. Says a lot about what you know. But obviously your hypocrisy doesn't leave you having a problem when it goes the other way.

 

[bluesfan94]

So you think players should strictly be tied to where they were born/trained? That's insane to me.

We've also done this before. France has played tons of foreign-born players, but that's okay

 

[Spring in Fialta]

We've also done this before. France has played tons of foreign-born players, but that's okay

The hypocrisy is what gets me.

 

[Evilo]

Incredible that you think that the children or immigrants or second-generations don't have affinity for their country of origin. Says a lot about what you know. But obviously your hypocrisy doesn't leave you having a problem when it goes the other way.

Never said that, but go ahead and lie.

 

[Evilo]

The hypocrisy is what gets me.

The hypocrisy is trying to make me say things I never said and ignoring what I DID say.
But that hasn't stopped you before.

I don't have a problem with players representing the players of their ancestors as I've said MULTIPLE times. I have given you the example (because he was very vocal about it, hence the example) of Ryad Boudebouz.
NOW, I do have a problem with the opportunistic who chose to represent France in every youth category, tried to break into the first team and when they felt they couldn't (Lemina) or not regularly enough (Aouar), negociated a new found passion for the country of their ancestors (with money, and cars involved).
So please stop lying and read twice what I've just written.


Now, when you tell me I don't whine about players being opportunistic playing for France while being born, raised in France, learning their football here and all, I find that absolutely amazing. Defies the imagination.

 

[Power Man]

Oussem Aouar thought he'd clean his reputattion by saying "he regretted playing for France" and that he always wanted to play for Algeria.
Problem is that most algerians are HARDLY fooled by the stupidity of that man who negociated his algerian change.

Shameless.

Agreed
Dude was waiting for a DD call up but ultimately realized it wasn’t going to happen so he is now flip flopping
I have way more respect for the likes of ZZ, Benzema and Mbappe who choose to play for France from an early age, I have zero problem with that, they are also French after all.

 

[Power Man]

Edit : wrong thread lol

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

MOST players choose what is best for their career not out of a national identity.

WHEN are we going let players choose what they wanna do with their own life?

 

[Savant]

Bajcetic was set to be called up to Spain u21 before his adductor injury ruled him out for the season. Maybe next year

 

[Evilo]

Cristiano called up

 

[cgf]

Rüdiger, Süle, Sane, Gundogan, Müller, and Neuer are not nominated as Flick picks a very experimental squad that will hand debuts to Schade, Vagnoman, Berisha, Wolf, and Felix Nmecha.

Gunna be very interesting to see how Flick lines them up. Looks like a back 4 with Raum/Günter on the left, Wolf/Vagnoman on the right, and Schlotterbeck / Bella Kotchap / Ginter / Kehrer in the middle. But who will play ahead of Kimmich & LeGo is very curious.

With Füllkrug & Berisha there are two bigger strikers on the roster, Timo & Schade give Flick two speedsters to get in behind, and Havertz is a player that Flick has singled out as focal point, so he's also in play for the false 9 if Flick opts to roll Musiala, Wirtz, & Gnabry in the creative band.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

I used to look at the germany squad the way I do with france, fear and envy now they call up gotze in 2023.

 

[cgf]

I used to look at the germany squad the way I do with france, fear and envy now they call up gotze in 2023.

We called up Poldi in 2014, and current Mario is way better than Poldi was at that point. Hell you took Correa & Gomez to Qatar. Not saying that we have the kind of depth we did a decade ago or France does now...especially in the deeper midfield...I specifically called it a very experimental roster to acknowledge that.

But pointing to Götze is a weak way to make your point given he's there for lockerroom morale, and because he won't rock the boat while Flick experiments with the debutants / kids. Even if we ignore that Götze's been having a renaissance the past few seasons; seeming to finally have figured out how to manage his illness.


Although with Musiala, Wirtz, Havertz, Gnabry, Kimmich, Goretzka, Bella Kotchap, Schlotterbeck, Raum, and ter Stegen/Trapp on the roster; it's not like the best 11 couldn't be a handful for any team.


It doesn't help that on top of the vets Flick isn't bringing this time...Sane, Gundogan, Rüdiger, Süle, Neuhaus, Hofmann, Groß, Baku, Klostermann, Henrichs, etc...we've also got injuries to Moukoko, Adeyemi, Brandt, Burkardt, Lukas Nmecha, Gosens, etc. sapping at our reserves.

 

[Evilo]

I used to look at the germany squad the way I do with france, fear and envy now they call up gotze in 2023.

That's a mistake. Germany rarely has a better roster than we do.
But they do more with their talent than us historically.

 

[bluesfan94]

That's a mistake. Germany rarely has a better roster than we do.
But they do more with their talent than us historically.

Welp, I know what the next few pages are going to be about.

 

[cgf]

Welp, I know what the next few pages are going to be about.

I think we can all agree that Germany uses its talent better than anyone else

 

[Power Man]

That's a mistake. Germany rarely has a better roster than we do.
But they do more with their talent than us historically.

To this day, I can't tell if the Sevilla match was a choke job by France or a display of mental toughness by the Germans lol

 

[Evilo]

To this day, I can't tell if the Sevilla match was a choke job by France or a display of mental toughness by the Germans lol

Don't forget the 23rd man.... Who decided the outcome of the match.

 

[cgf]

Being serious. Germany's population and wealth have had just as much to do with our success as have any cultural differences.

I know that in england the phrase is "class trumps form", but in german that saying is reversed...and to me, that speaks to the fact that during our strong periods, we have always been awash with options that were so close in quality that form made the biggest difference.

In the 70s when we could chase a superstar like Netzer out of the team for leaving the BuLi without skipping a beat, and in the 90s & 2010s we had enough NT-caliber CMs & AMs to send multiple teams. It's that more than the greater societal emphasis on operating as a collective and refusal to give up, that has been responsible for our success.

Well that and how well we adapt the ideas of others; 70s team playing a german version of Total Football and the 2014 team having been built in the image of the Spanish team that had thwarted them in 2008 & 2010.


Luckily our youth work has been back on an upswing after those dire late-90s age groups, and it's gradually rebuilding our depth + filling in the gaps that were created by so many disappointing age groups after that massive influx of talent we got from the '95ers & '96ers.

I'm still iffy about our midfield situation behind Kimmich-Goretzka...since we've got options I wouldn't mind playing, but no younger options that could really push them any time soon...and a lot of our top talents are still far from their primes.

But these past 3-4 years have really pushed us back in the right direction in a big way and we've got some really special kids kicking.

 

[Power Man]

Don't forget the 23rd man.... Who decided the outcome of the match.

Can’t believe thry didn’t even call a foul on that play

 

[Evilo]

Can’t believe thry didn’t even call a foul on that play

On numerous ones tbh.

 

[Power Man]

lol no Aouar - but maybe he is not 100% fit


But no Benrahma, WTF?
Saïd is having a very good season with WHU.

Belaili is an amazing talent, more talented than Mahrez and Benrahma imo, but he has the maturity of a 2 year old.

But yeah let’s call him up and Aissa Blunder Mandi, smh

Very happy to see Kadri in that list though


Hoping Belmadi keeps giving Amoura minutes, he’s such a talent

Also hoping he plays Boudaoui and Zorgane regularly

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

We called up Poldi in 2014, and current Mario is way better than Poldi was at that point. Hell you took Correa & Gomez to Qatar. Not saying that we have the kind of depth we did a decade ago or France does now...especially in the deeper midfield...I specifically called it a very experimental roster to acknowledge that.

But pointing to Götze is a weak way to make your point given he's there for lockerroom morale, and because he won't rock the boat while Flick experiments with the debutants / kids. Even if we ignore that Götze's been having a renaissance the past few seasons; seeming to finally have figured out how to manage his illness.


Although with Musiala, Wirtz, Havertz, Gnabry, Kimmich, Goretzka, Bella Kotchap, Schlotterbeck, Raum, and ter Stegen/Trapp on the roster; it's not like the best 11 couldn't be a handful for any team.


It doesn't help that on top of the vets Flick isn't bringing this time...Sane, Gundogan, Rüdiger, Süle, Neuhaus, Hofmann, Groß, Baku, Klostermann, Henrichs, etc...we've also got injuries to Moukoko, Adeyemi, Brandt, Burkardt, Lukas Nmecha, Gosens, etc. sapping at our reserves.

I mean it as a case in point. Just dont see Germany as a top team right now. They have some serious up and coming talent but their a couple of years away from being the players they are projected to be imo. After Wirtz/Musiala you are going to have to pray Kai gets back his magic when he leaves Chelsea.